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Post by aleutianhoya on Apr 5, 2016 14:02:04 GMT -5
DFW, any insight into the self-sufficient thing? I find it hard to believe that a program that was self-sufficient 4-5 years ago would not be now, considering they are getting more money from TV revenue, but I could be wrong. Again, we don't know the numbers behind the curtain (the FY15 totals now list $10,357,033 revenues and $10,357,033 expenses, FWIW) but self-sufficiency is a function of three factors: television, tickets, and alumni giving, all of which are part of the operating budget. The TV money is relatively fixed, and while it may grind on the JTIII critics out there, it helps cover his salary as it moves upwards, win or lose, which is why the term of the contract provides him plenty of security. Indirectly, any strategy which flows the TV money into staff limits its effect as a whole across Athletics. The ticket money is variable and losses in ticket sales hit the bottom line in the form of deficits on the Verizon Center rent. Ticket sales are off 27% from 2010 and other than someone who absolutely wants to see Maryland (and/or Villanova), there's not likely to be a compelling need to buy season tickets, which generally drive the numbers on a per season average. The alumni giving is the wildcard in that the program has grown to expect a certain upward trajectory in donors and gifts which are at risk and speak to a assumption in Athletics that recent grads will support men's basketball as their predecessors 10, 20, 30 years ago did. If Hoop Club giving falls off in a noticeable way this year, TV and ticket sales do not make up that difference. That brings up the question I posed earlier--does a downturn in revenue force the staff to cut back on their budget, or is money simply routed away from other sports to cover the difference? We don't (and won't) know. That's the key -- at Georgetown and everywhere else. It's so easy to categorize expenses (and revenues) however you want to that the numbers are completely meaningless. How do schools at the Big 10 categorize revenue from their network, for example? Sure, they show football and men's basketball games, but there's also women's soccer and volleyball games on there. And what about support staff? At Georgetown, there are staff that work on all sports, even though for some of them, a majority (but not all) of their time is focused on men's basketball. Well, how are their salaries calculated? Obviously, our revenues should be relatively easy to calculate (the TV deal is all men's basketball, although the shrinking licensing money is harder to divvy up), but the expenses aren't. In any event, I don't think you're going to see any cut in the men's basketball budget, DFW.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 5, 2016 14:26:46 GMT -5
In any event, I don't think you're going to see any cut in the men's basketball budget, DFW. Well, how much is too much given declines in tickets and giving? Georgetown already spends more than all but 10-12 Division I programs and about $2 million more than the folks along the Main Line spend. As revenues go down, should GU spend even more?
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 5, 2016 14:48:50 GMT -5
In any event, I don't think you're going to see any cut in the men's basketball budget, DFW. Well, how much is too much given declines in tickets and giving? Georgetown already spends more than all but 10-12 Division I programs and about $2 million more than the folks along the Main Line spend. As revenues go down, should GU spend even more? How do we even know revenues are going down? This is where success in March helps a lot. One more Final Four, and suddenly the coffers begin getting full again. I realize that's incredibly fickle, but it's the way most people operate. And if we cut the budget, where's the coming from? I realize that JT3's salary is a big part of it; theoretically, any replacement would almost surely make less in the short term (but maybe not the long-term if they were successful). You also have JT Jr's 500K or so a year. Where else could you really cut from? I imagine that Verizon Center costs and travel costs (both for games and recruiting) make up a large portion of the rest of the budget. On the expenditure side, I think the top 10-12 expenditure figure isn't necessarily a fair comparison, either, given that the Verizon Center rent is presumably a significant cost not faced by many of our rivals.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Apr 5, 2016 14:54:35 GMT -5
In any event, I don't think you're going to see any cut in the men's basketball budget, DFW. Well, how much is too much given declines in tickets and giving? Georgetown already spends more than all but 10-12 Division I programs and about $2 million more than the folks along the Main Line spend. As revenues go down, should GU spend even more? There's always a red line, obviously, in terms of financial losses. i don't know where that line is. But the goal is to win a championship and you spend what is reasonably necessary in an effort to achieve that goal. You pump in a little more during the down times to make up for fan interest and hope to reap the benefits (financial and otherwise) during the good times. But if you lower or raise the budget on an annual (or even biannual) basis based on external revenue, you risk achieving diminishing returns and entering a cycle of no return. Again, there's a red line -- if the revenues are terrible for a number of years (because the performance has been bad or other reasons), you need to reassess everything. But that's a much larger project involving other sports, etc. And, at least for me, that assessment would be something on the magnitude of five years away. (It's worth noting that if we had five more years akin to this one, we'd certainly end up saving salary dollars because we'd have likely just begun the era of a new head coach making far less....)
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guru
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Post by guru on Apr 5, 2016 15:10:11 GMT -5
Well, how much is too much given declines in tickets and giving? Georgetown already spends more than all but 10-12 Division I programs and about $2 million more than the folks along the Main Line spend. As revenues go down, should GU spend even more? How do we even know revenues are going down? This is where success in March helps a lot. One more Final Four, and suddenly the coffers begin getting full again. I realize that's incredibly fickle, but it's the way most people operate. I mean, there really are no words for the vacuous nature of your arguments. You are constantly chasing your own tail. At least you are correct that "success in March helps a lot". But you fail to connect the dots yourself, as you constantly circle back to regular season success as you defend JT3's record. It's been 10 years since this coach has had any sort of success in March. Hence, the current predicament.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 5, 2016 15:54:55 GMT -5
How do we even know revenues are going down? This is where success in March helps a lot. One more Final Four, and suddenly the coffers begin getting full again. I realize that's incredibly fickle, but it's the way most people operate. I mean, there really are no words for the vacuous nature of your arguments. You are constantly chasing your own tail. At least you are correct that "success in March helps a lot". But you fail to connect the dots yourself, as you constantly circle back to regular season success as you defend JT3's record. It's been 10 years since this coach has had any sort of success in March. Hence, the current predicament. What predicament? There is no indication that there is any dire problem that needs to be addressed. DFW posed a hypothetical, and that's what this discussion is about. It has absolutely nothing to do with the regular season, nor did my discussion of this topic have anything to do with the regular season / post-season arguments about JT3, etc. So, I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, because I haven't addressed the regular season at all in relation to the budgetary topics. Vacuous arguments? Am I even making an argument in the part you quoted above? All I am doing is asking a factual question - whether revenues are actually going down. Nobody has indicated that they have fallen, and if so, how much. We are all assuming that because attendance was down, revenues might be down, but to my knowledge, we don't have solid figures. Sorry if I require actual facts before making an argument; rather than just throwing out an unsupported opinion like you do.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 5, 2016 16:51:31 GMT -5
So the bottom line regarding revenues - we have speculation based on conjecture. Got it.
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swhoya
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Post by swhoya on Apr 5, 2016 17:37:39 GMT -5
So the bottom line regarding revenues - we have speculation based on conjecture. Got it. Hoyatalk is now equally well prepared to deal with the national budget!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2016 18:02:38 GMT -5
Big East final record vs major conferences:
ACC: 7-6 Big 10: 11-8 Big 12: 3-2 Pac 12: 5-2 SEC 8-3 AAC: 5-1 A-10: 7-2
Total: 46-24
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Apr 5, 2016 20:23:23 GMT -5
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Apr 5, 2016 21:23:14 GMT -5
Big East final record vs major conferences: ACC: 7-6 Big 10: 11-8 Big 12: 3-2 Pac 12: 5-2 SEC 8-3 AAC: 5-1 A-10: 7-2 Total: 46-24 Not bad for a mid-major.
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KHoyaNYC
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Apr 5, 2016 21:55:10 GMT -5
Big East final record vs major conferences: ACC: 7-6 Big 10: 11-8 Big 12: 3-2 Pac 12: 5-2 SEC 8-3 AAC: 5-1 A-10: 7-2 Total: 46-24 Not bad for a mid-major. You would never know this by listening and watching the college hoops media. This is why Villanova's championship is all the more important.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Apr 5, 2016 22:05:18 GMT -5
"“I’m thrilled for Villanova,” Big East commissioner Val Ackerman said. “Coach Wright has been such an asset to the conference. There’s things he does that don’t show up on the box score in terms of what he does for the league, the counsel he gives me."Wait, so Jay counsels the commish now? Well at least now we know how they've been getting the whistles and JTII's outburst earlier this year was basically ignored and dismissed.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Apr 6, 2016 7:13:35 GMT -5
In any event, I don't think you're going to see any cut in the men's basketball budget, DFW. Well, how much is too much given declines in tickets and giving? Georgetown already spends more than all but 10-12 Division I programs and about $2 million more than the folks along the Main Line spend. As revenues go down, should GU spend even more? Yes.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Apr 6, 2016 8:52:34 GMT -5
Well, how much is too much given declines in tickets and giving? Georgetown already spends more than all but 10-12 Division I programs and about $2 million more than the folks along the Main Line spend. As revenues go down, should GU spend even more? Yes. Mods, is there an "unlike" button?
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Apr 6, 2016 8:57:04 GMT -5
Jon Rothstein @jonrothstein Apr 4 This national title is obviously huge for Villanova, but it's also huge for the Big East: the term "power-five" is dead in college hoops.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Apr 6, 2016 9:12:16 GMT -5
Jon Rothstein @jonrothstein Apr 4 This national title is obviously huge for Villanova, but it's also huge for the Big East: the term "power-five" is dead in college hoops. Is it though? I appreciate Rothstein's sentiment, but the term Power 5 in high D1 athletics won't be dead until football has gone the way of the dinosaur. UCONN won as a member of the AAC but that didn't all of a sudden vault the American up the ranks of hoops conferences. the bottom half of the American is, admittedly, PUTRID. It is like 5 DePauls.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Apr 6, 2016 9:40:26 GMT -5
Jon Rothstein @jonrothstein Apr 4 This national title is obviously huge for Villanova, but it's also huge for the Big East: the term "power-five" is dead in college hoops. Is it though? I appreciate Rothstein's sentiment, but the term Power 5 in high D1 athletics won't be dead until football has gone the way of the dinosaur. UCONN won as a member of the AAC but that didn't all of a sudden vault the American up the ranks of hoops conferences. the bottom half of the American is, admittedly, PUTRID. It is like 5 DePauls. I do think this is different than the American. In that regard, maybe the American is most like the WCC. Gonzaga winning a title isn't going to change the perception of the WCC, nor should it. Same with UConn and the American. The American, to me, is not really much different than the the A-10 at this point. They may have one national power in their league (which the A-10 doesn't), but the A-10 makes up for that with more pretty good teams throughout the league. The A-10 almost always gets multiple teams in the field, frequently has a participant in the second weekend, and occasionally has a team make a big run. But rarely are any of their teams legitimate contenders. I think the American will be similar. All three of those leagues are clearly behind the Big East -- both in fact and in national perception. I think the term will stick around, since it's simply convenient short-hand. But the term "power five" will essentially include the Big East, as non-sensical as that is. Sort of like the Big 10 and Big 12 are nonsensical names. Even leading up to this Final Four, commentators were referring to it as containing only teams from "power" conferences without really analyzing how the Big East fit inside or outside of that term. Assuming we're able to continue putting 4+ into the field each year, having one or two (or more) in the second weekend most years, and the occasional run to the final weekend, that will continue. We're not going to be on the level of the ACC -- that's just reality unfortunately.
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boxout05
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Post by boxout05 on Apr 6, 2016 11:32:05 GMT -5
The UConn title says infinitely more about the pre-realignment Big East than it does the AAC. UConn needs to keep winning and someone else needs to step up or else their respective prestiges will suffer. We and the Big East have similar circumstances, but Monday night really helped.
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GUMBA
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Post by GUMBA on Apr 6, 2016 16:17:16 GMT -5
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