This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,593
|
Post by This Just In on Feb 28, 2016 15:57:30 GMT -5
HOW GOOD IS THE BIG EAST
The Big East's .500 winning percentage against the BPI top 50 ranks first among major conferences.
The league's .620 winning percentage against major conference foes ranks second behind only the Big 12 (.625).
Providence's Kris Dunn and Marquette's Henry Ellenson are two of the top five NBA draft prospects according to Chad Ford
WHY THE BIG EAST STILL HAS DOUBTERS
Villanova has been bounced twice in the Round of 32.
Since realignment (2013-14), Xavier is the only team to reach the Sweet 16.
Current Big East schools haven't reached the Final Four since Butler in 2011.
Of current Big East Schools, the last national title was won by Villanova in 1985.
The Big East's record against the BPI top 50 is strong, but the league is just 3-11 vs. BPI top 25 non-conference foes.
|
|
drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,397
|
Post by drquigley on Feb 28, 2016 17:27:51 GMT -5
P Huh? Have you been reading about what the big football colleges are doing? Do you think BE football schools would ever have committed to spending the money it would take to match the facilities being built by these football colleges? Not to mention the academic "compromises" it would take. No way BC or Pitt or Cincinnati or even Louisville would ever be able to compete against these big state schools. They all did.And last I checked, Pitt was a big state school. So is Louisville. And Cincinnati. When was the last time any of these schools were serious contenders for a national title or played and/or beat a team that was. |
|
KHoyaNYC
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,901 
|
Post by KHoyaNYC on Feb 28, 2016 17:59:19 GMT -5
We're kidding ourselves if we think post-realignment the public and media perceive the Big East to be on par with the Power 5 conferences in anything. It's funny just a few years ago some people from other conferences complained about Big East media bias. Now it has arguably swung the other way, the Big East gets the cold shoulder compared to the Power 5. This NCAA Tourney is critical for the conference to establish itself as a heavyweight who belongs. Personally, I think Villanova can take the championship this year. Xavier? Elite Eight, maybe Final Four. Anyone else, not sure they even get to the Sweet 16.
|
|
|
|
Post by Lethal_Interjection on Feb 28, 2016 19:31:49 GMT -5
We have to honestly look at how the sports media constantly talks about the power 5 conferences. Anything outside of P5 namesake can be looked at as a mid-major, it seems that's the harsh reality though. The sports media for basketball doesn't talk about it that way. They consider 6 major conferences, including the Big East. Let's not confuse basketball with football. I honestly don't recall the sports media stating the BE as a major conference in basketball. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2016 19:40:40 GMT -5
The contract with Fox is comparable to P5 money. The downside is that the viewership for FS1 isn't that great, so the exposure for the Big East isn't that great. The BIG TEN has launched the Gavitt games with the Big East for eight years. I doubt they would do something comparable with the American Athletic Conference or the A-10. Villanova, Xavier and Providence will make the tournament 3 years in a row. Butler is probably be going to the tournament again this year and that program is on its 3rd coach since joining the Big East (Stevens, Miller & Holtmann). I'm surprised the conference has done as well as it has with Georgetown mostly MIA.
|
|
This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,593
|
Post by This Just In on Feb 28, 2016 19:41:46 GMT -5
The sports media for basketball doesn't talk about it that way. They consider 6 major conferences, including the Big East. Let's not confuse basketball with football. I honestly don't recall the sports media stating the BE as a major conference in basketball. In your avatar pic, who is the person between James Worthy and Dean Smith (circa 1982)? |
|
|
|
Post by Lethal_Interjection on Feb 28, 2016 19:45:22 GMT -5
I honestly don't recall the sports media stating the BE as a major conference in basketball. In your avatar pic, who is the person between James Worthy and Dean Smith (circa 1982)? Sleepy Floyd of course  Both Floyd and Worthy were HS rivals in Gastonia, NC. |
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 29, 2016 10:48:49 GMT -5
The contract with Fox is comparable to P5 money. The downside is that the viewership for FS1 isn't that great, so the exposure for the Big East isn't that great. The BIG TEN has launched the Gavitt games with the Big East for eight years. I doubt they would do something comparable with the American Athletic Conference or the A-10. Villanova, Xavier and Providence will make the tournament 3 years in a row. Butler is probably be going to the tournament again this year and that program is on its 3rd coach since joining the Big East (Stevens, Miller & Holtmann). I'm surprised the conference has done as well as it has with Georgetown mostly MIA. I really think the problem with classifying basketball conferences is that the media uses the football paradigm to make its judgments and assumptions. As I previously noted, a conference that gets 50% of its teams into the NCAA tournament (among the highest %'s among the conferences, if not the highest) is not a mid-major. And, a conference where each school gets millions in media money from Fox Sports is also not a mid-major. Also, we are getting MORE now than we got in the old Big East. I recall a piece on the HoyaSaxa.com page a few years back where it estimated that the A-10 teams made only a few 100K each. People forget that before various rounds of realignment, there were other very strong basketball conferences, like Conference USA (before the Big East took many of its teams). The bigger issue is football and its consolidation which has pushed most of the better football schools into the "Power 5" conferences. A great example is the SEC. If not for football, I am not sure how much "power" it would have in basketball. In 2015, 5 of 14 teams made the tournament as 1, 5, 9, 10, and 11 seeds. In 2014, 3 of 14 teams made the tournament as 1, 8, and 11 seeds. In 2013, 3 of 14 teams made the tournament as 3, 9, and 12 seeds. In 2012, 4 of 12 teams made the tournament as 1, 5, 7, and 9 seeds. When you consider that most of their NCAA success is centered around Kentucky and Florida, it really shows how consistently weak the SEC has been over the last several years. |
|
|
|
Post by coachwojo on Apr 5, 2016 9:21:12 GMT -5
Bump
|
|
|
|
Post by Lethal_Interjection on Apr 5, 2016 9:50:44 GMT -5
Yay, a win for the mid-major Big East conference  |
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 5, 2016 10:00:28 GMT -5
It had been previously posted that the "new" Big East was 7-10 in the NCAA tournament. Assuming that figure is correct, the Big East is now 16-14 in the NCAA tournament since 2014.
|
|
guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,654
|
Post by guru on Apr 5, 2016 10:06:06 GMT -5
It had been previously posted that the "new" Big East was 7-10 in the NCAA tournament. Assuming that figure is correct, the Big East is now 16-14 in the NCAA tournament since 2014. Without any meaningful contribution from the former marquee team in the conference. It's great that Nova has carried our conference back to prominence, but I'd rather not be riding their coattails. Georgetown has been a complete failure in the new conference. |
|
|
|
Post by hoyalove4ever on Apr 5, 2016 10:07:06 GMT -5
Huge win for the BEAST last night. Hate that it was 'Nova, but huge nonetheless.
|
|
DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,861
|
Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 5, 2016 10:20:17 GMT -5
It's great that Nova has carried our conference back to prominence, but I'd rather not be riding their coattails. Georgetown has been a complete failure in the new conference. Overstated, of course, but it begs the question of what it will take to be prominent. And if revenues continue to decline re: ticket sales, does Georgetown consider cuts in the basketball budget as a result? |
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 5, 2016 11:00:06 GMT -5
It's great that Nova has carried our conference back to prominence, but I'd rather not be riding their coattails. Georgetown has been a complete failure in the new conference. Overstated, of course, but it begs the question of what it will take to be prominent. And if revenues continue to decline re: ticket sales, does Georgetown consider cuts in the basketball budget as a result? After spending $60 million on a sports facility, which was essentially built for basketball (though I know it will also have positive effects on other teams), I don't see any logical reason for cutting the basketball budget. Legitimate question: how much of the basketball budget consists of ticket sales? My understanding is that even with the decreased attendance numbers of the "new" Big East, that the basketball program is largely self-sufficient. Is that incorrect? |
|
guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,654
|
Post by guru on Apr 5, 2016 11:27:12 GMT -5
Overstated, of course, but it begs the question of what it will take to be prominent. And if revenues continue to decline re: ticket sales, does Georgetown consider cuts in the basketball budget as a result? After spending $60 million on a sports facility, which was essentially built for basketball (though I know it will also have positive effects on other teams), I don't see any logical reason for cutting the basketball budget. Legitimate question: how much of the basketball budget consists of ticket sales? My understanding is that even with the decreased attendance numbers of the "new" Big East, that the basketball program is largely self-sufficient. Is that incorrect? self-sufficient? I don't think that's accurate. Or even close to accurate. |
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 5, 2016 11:34:19 GMT -5
money.cnn.com/2010/03/18/news/companies/basketball_profits/This article is admittedly old, but according to this, in 2010, basketball revenue was 9,700,309 and expenses were 7,405,214. Now, I realize that our ticket sales might be lower now, and JT3's salary is higher than in 2010, but we are also getting a fair amount more through the Fox Sports 1 deal than we were getting in 2010. If the numbers are anything close to these old numbers, then it would seem to indicate a self-sufficient program, unless there is funny business with the numbers or accounting (which universities do all the time, so it's very possible). EDIT: A page on DFW's site also seems to indicate it's self-sufficient (http://www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/lastcall.htm): "How does Georgetown do it? A lot of schools would like to know. With a mix of pragmatism, persistence, and alchemy, Georgetown has been able to float a 29 sport program on the back of one single revenue sport. The men's soccer team does not get to the College Cup if basketball is not financially self-sustaining. Golf and tennis teams cannot compete nationally if basketball cannot pay its bills. Football does not get the ability to play on ESPNU if the Big East TV contract does not allow basketball to thrive."
|
|
guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,654
|
Post by guru on Apr 5, 2016 11:48:21 GMT -5
money.cnn.com/2010/03/18/news/companies/basketball_profits/This article is admittedly old, but according to this, in 2010, basketball revenue was 9,700,309 and expenses were 7,405,214. Now, I realize that our ticket sales might be lower now, and JT3's salary is higher than in 2010, but we are also getting a fair amount more through the Fox Sports 1 deal than we were getting in 2010. If the numbers are anything close to these old numbers, then it would seem to indicate a self-sufficient program, unless there is funny business with the numbers or accounting (which universities do all the time, so it's very possible). EDIT: A page on DFW's site also seems to indicate it's self-sufficient (http://www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/lastcall.htm): "How does Georgetown do it? A lot of schools would like to know. With a mix of pragmatism, persistence, and alchemy, Georgetown has been able to float a 29 sport program on the back of one single revenue sport. The men's soccer team does not get to the College Cup if basketball is not financially self-sustaining. Golf and tennis teams cannot compete nationally if basketball cannot pay its bills. Football does not get the ability to play on ESPNU if the Big East TV contract does not allow basketball to thrive." Your links rely on old information and are no longer relevant. The program needs alumni and donor support. No debate. |
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 5, 2016 11:56:21 GMT -5
DFW, any insight into the self-sufficient thing? I find it hard to believe that a program that was self-sufficient 4-5 years ago would not be now, considering they are getting more money from TV revenue, but I could be wrong.
Also, when I say "self-sufficient" I am merely referring to the program's revenue. That may very well include alumni and donor support. I never meant to imply that alumni and donor support were not necessary - I merely meant the basketball program brings in the same or more than it spends on basketball. Obviously, if alumni/donor support is a large percentage of the revenue, losing some amount of that because of poor performance would be a problem.
|
|
DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,861
|
Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 5, 2016 12:17:21 GMT -5
DFW, any insight into the self-sufficient thing? I find it hard to believe that a program that was self-sufficient 4-5 years ago would not be now, considering they are getting more money from TV revenue, but I could be wrong. Again, we don't know the numbers behind the curtain (the FY15 totals now list $10,357,033 revenues and $10,357,033 expenses, FWIW) but self-sufficiency is a function of three factors: television, tickets, and alumni giving, all of which are part of the operating budget. The TV money is relatively fixed, and while it may grind on the JTIII critics out there, it helps cover his salary as it moves upwards, win or lose, which is why the term of the contract provides him plenty of security. Indirectly, any strategy which flows the TV money into staff limits its effect as a whole across Athletics. The ticket money is variable and losses in ticket sales hit the bottom line in the form of deficits on the Verizon Center rent. Ticket sales are off 27% from 2010 and other than someone who absolutely wants to see Maryland (and/or Villanova), there's not likely to be a compelling need to buy season tickets, which generally drive the numbers on a per season average. The alumni giving is the wildcard in that the program has grown to expect a certain upward trajectory in donors and gifts which are at risk and speak to a assumption in Athletics that recent grads will support men's basketball as their predecessors 10, 20, 30 years ago did. If Hoop Club giving falls off in a noticeable way this year, TV and ticket sales do not make up that difference. That brings up the question I posed earlier--does a downturn in revenue force the staff to cut back on their budget, or is money simply routed away from other sports to cover the difference? We don't (and won't) know. |
|
