This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jan 2, 2016 23:17:10 GMT -5
Marquette isn't good. That doesn't take away from what Marcus and Jessie were able to contribute in the least. Marquette isn't good because they can't stop people from getting in the paint and they can't shoot very well. Their major strength is their 2 bigs which Jessie and Marcus had their way with most of the time. As freshmen that were less heralded than Ellenson. I've seen Ellenson play well in a couple of games. Tonight? Not so much in large part due to those two guys and, of course, Bradley. Ellenson was grabbing and fouling on a TON of plays on the offensive end and not getting called for it. I assume it was out of frustration because he could not muscle either of our freshmen that matched up with him. Even one of the commentators mentioned in the second that the Hoyas forced him to be a perimeter player. Well done Jessie and Marcus. It was nice to see Jessie get the applause that he did when he fouled out and the big hug from Bradley. Let's see if we will be having this discussion again when they take on Villanova this week. Marquette is a very good team. Well-coached team with two to three solid players. Let's see what happens going forward. What do you think Marquette's Big East record wil be? |
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Jan 2, 2016 23:20:16 GMT -5
I think we may have overestimated Marquette, myself included. They will play hard and probably steal some decent wins, but their record was somewhat deceptive. They played some bad teams. Of course, they took care of business, where we didn't, but that isn't necessarily the barometer of a good team...
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jan 2, 2016 23:21:25 GMT -5
Just back to the hotel after the game - haven't read any of the clearly scintillating analysis that precedes, but here are a couple thoughts: The first half was the best offensive execution I've seen thus far this year. Defense was great as well. Marquette bumped and grabbed all the cutters in the second half. When the refs only call a third of them, that's a great strategy. It certainly ground the offense nearly to a halt. Wojo does a great Crean-Buzz Williams - 2-3 feet out on the floor virtually every play. Reggie Cam played great except for the requisite boneheaded pass for a Marquette layup. I love Isaac Copeland but man were his entry passes awfully executed tonight. Jessie Govan played confidently for the first time in a while - a great sign. Mike Stephens thinks he is the show. What else could explain all those out of position and anticipation calls, not all of which were against the Hoyas? Nice turnout by the students away on vacation crowd - and by the 34-strong Johnny Jones-led crowd of hecklers along the baseline near the Marquette bench. Oh, how could I forget 5 Hoyas in double figures? Gotta love that. On edit: 22 of 23 from the line. Solid. |
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This Just In
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Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Jan 2, 2016 23:21:30 GMT -5
I know it doesn't fit your "JTIII is a terrible coach" narrative - but we DID NOT apply pressure, other than Tre's occasional light pressure early in the game on 3 or 4 possessions. Keep trying though. Eventually we will lose again and you can rail against the machine. "Light pressure" only on "3 or 4 possessions"... you realize we're talking about the same possessions that resulted in a 15-2 run where we took control of the game, right? Where we ran after every missed basket resulting from the defensive stands flowing from that light, token and meaningless pressure? "Dude, you're such an idiot, we didn't do anything differently except shoot a better FG percentage!" Go ahead and make me the bogeyman, I've never said JT3 was a terrible coach. I've only said some of his tactics, or lack thereof, are disappointing, and I for one was over the moon watching us do something new, different and, gosh, effective. You go ahead and tell yourself the only thing we did was hit a few more shots than usual, and yeah, next time we drop 11 TOs in a half running our dreck, I'll "rail against the machine" about the time we dropped 49 playing the exact opposite. You need a toolbox, and tonight JT3 actually added to this team's. It's assertive, it's aggressive. You call it token and light, I saw a team on its front foot taking initiative, forcing the issue and imposing its will about when possessions start and how they end. I saw a coach making a major lineup change and exploiting the personnel behind that change. Whatever you call that stretch, it was a game-changer of the kind lacking a few weeks ago when this team was having that kind of run made against them and never recovering. So, maybe I'm just making too much of it, but I hope JT3 saw something he can game plan in, incorporate in for stretches, and continually push this team to exploit the athletic advantages it has over almost every other team the way it did tonight. I appreciate your insight Don't worry about the poster's coming at you... Relax and enjoy the win Onto Creighton |
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jan 2, 2016 23:21:36 GMT -5
Just back to the hotel after the game - haven't read any of the clearly scintillating analysis that precedes, but here are a couple thoughts: This made me laugh much more than I expected mostly, I think, because I post too much for my own good and realize that the majority of what I post is crap that no one wants to read through. Thanks for the chuckle. |
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Jan 2, 2016 23:22:33 GMT -5
Lot of pluses to take from that win, most importantly I would hope JT3 would look at himself and trust his players to press and run like they did in the first half instead of putting the brakes on and pretending that somehow bleeding the clock every possession for 20 minutes won't bite you in the a$$ eventually. That second half was brutal and it wasn't execution, it was absolutely perfect execution of a changed and terrible second half game plans. Let em play coach, they should have proved to you they can do 40 if you'll let them. #peakhoyatalk |
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This Just In
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Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Jan 2, 2016 23:28:35 GMT -5
I think we may have overestimated Marquette, myself included. They will play hard and probably steal some decent wins, but their record was deceptive. They played some bad teams. I saw Marquette play Seton Hall...and Marquette looked like a bottom feeder...not even a middle of the road BE team. Then the same Seton Hall barely beats DePaul by 3 pts, the same DePaul team that could not finish a fastbreak or make back back FT's on Wednesday. I think there is a definte gap between the middle teams and the bottom teams of which the latter is very bad. |
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jan 2, 2016 23:29:47 GMT -5
Let's see if we will be having this discussion again when they take on Villanova this week. Marquette is a very good team. Well-coached team with two to three solid players. Let's see what happens going forward. What do you think Marquette's Big East record wil be? I haven't looked through their schedule but they should expect to lose 3 of their next four from what I saw on FS1. Provvy, Nova, the Johnnies, and Xavier? They could lose all four of those. Similar to how I'd feel if we had that same schedule coming up at this time of year and I think we're markedly better than Quette. Since you always answer everything with a question, who do you think will finish with a worse record than Marquette outside of DePaul and possibly St. John's? I like how hard the Johnnies play and, while they can't shoot, they do get after it on D and can probably hamper Quette's inside presence. I wouldn't be surprised if Quette and the Johnnies split the season series. |
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Jan 2, 2016 23:37:26 GMT -5
This Hoya tea is driving me crazy. We can look great and terrible IN THE SAME GAME! Was at Syracuse and UNC Charlotte games. Both times we blew 20 point leads in the second half ((UNC with less than 6 minute left). But we won both games. My takeaway from this game (and a day of watching 3 earlier games) is that this team can beat the top 4 BE teams at Verizon. Providence will be tough but I'm feeling better about our bigs handling Bentil and Kaleb, Peak, Tre, and DSR keeping Dunn in check. But we can't let up when we get a big lead!
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jan 2, 2016 23:45:01 GMT -5
On a related note, I hope that Chris Mullin is embarrassing some of his players in his downtime in games of HORSE. It would be great for the conference if Coach Mullin could return St. John's to its former self. While I abhor losing to them, a big NYC presence and prominent program would help the new BE immensely. While I hated (and respected) Chris Mullin as a player, I'm really happy that he's heading the Johnnies' program. Cooley is another guy that I am really glad that coaches in our conference. As much as I wish the conference had the cache/rep that it used to have, big name/excellent coaches make me think it'll all work out in the end.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jan 2, 2016 23:50:15 GMT -5
This Hoya tea is driving me crazy. We can look great and terrible IN THE SAME GAME! Was at Syracuse and UNC Charlotte games. Both times we blew 20 point leads in the second half ((UNC with less than 6 minute left). But we won both games. My takeaway from this game (and a day of watching 3 earlier games) is that this team can beat the top 4 BE teams at Verizon. Providence will be tough but I'm feeling better about our bigs handling Bentil and Kaleb, Peak, Tre, and DSR keeping Dunn in check. But we can't let up when we get a big lead! Yup. Welcome to your 2015-16 heart attack Hoyas. So damn true. I am not liking our chances against Providence. Kris Dunn can flat out score when he needs to and gets it done on the defensive end too. And he knows when to throw away the "involve your teammates" part of his game. Plus, he's an easy guy to root for when he's not playing against the Hoyas. He's a fun player to watch and a guy that I root for outside of 2 or 3 games during the year. |
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This Just In
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Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Jan 2, 2016 23:52:31 GMT -5
What do you think Marquette's Big East record wil be? I haven't looked through their schedule but they should expect to lose 3 of their next four from what I saw on FS1. Provvy, Nova, the Johnnies, and Xavier? They could lose all four of those. Similar to how I'd feel if we had that same schedule coming up at this time of year and I think we're markedly better than Quette. Since you always answer everything with a question, who do you think will finish with a worse record than Marquette outside of DePaul and possibly St. John's? I like how hard the Johnnies play and, while they can't shoot, they do get after it on D and can probably hamper Quette's inside presence. I wouldn't be surprised if Quette and the Johnnies split the season series. From what have seen so far, no other teams are worst than the 3 you mentioned. You are right DePaul, Marquette, St. John's is the bottom. Marquette now has back to back double-digit lossed in BE play I do not think Creighton and Seton Hall is that much better The top 3 teams would be Xavier, Butler, Providence; and Butler is getting exposed with back to back double digit blow out losses, arrow down Gtown, Nova, -undefeated in BE, arrow pointing up |
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jan 3, 2016 0:02:13 GMT -5
I haven't looked through their schedule but they should expect to lose 3 of their next four from what I saw on FS1. Provvy, Nova, the Johnnies, and Xavier? They could lose all four of those. Similar to how I'd feel if we had that same schedule coming up at this time of year and I think we're markedly better than Quette. Since you always answer everything with a question, who do you think will finish with a worse record than Marquette outside of DePaul and possibly St. John's? I like how hard the Johnnies play and, while they can't shoot, they do get after it on D and can probably hamper Quette's inside presence. I wouldn't be surprised if Quette and the Johnnies split the season series. From what have seen so far, no other teams are worst than the 3 you mentioned. You are right DePaul, Marquette, St. John's is the bottom. Marquette now has back to back double-digit lossed in BE play I do not think Creighton and Seton Hall is that much better The top 3 teams would be Xavier, Butler, Providence; and Butler is getting exposed with back to back double digit blow out losses, arrow down Gtown, Nova, -undefeated in BE, arrow pointing up I don't really disagree though, to be fair, I think SH is a bit of a question mark. As much as Whitehead torpedoed them last year with his Lance Stephenson visions of himself, he's really changed his game to his credit. He's involving his teammates and is raising the tide of all of the ships. That couldn't have been an easy thing to do for a guy as skilled as him on a team on which he's clearly the most talented player. They're going to go as he goes I think. And he's been pretty darn good. Not that one guy can do it on his own but it used to be that you could lock in on him and it was a wrap. He's got some guys around him now that can contribute. I don't think of them like I did last year. Billy Garrett, Jr. could learn a few things from Isaiah. Our Hoyas can't look past anyone or we could be in the bottom four. We could be in the top 4 too. Gotta put in the work. |
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Jan 3, 2016 0:15:16 GMT -5
I just watched the game on DVR as I couldn't watch live but didn't know the score which always makes that better. I'll say they played really well overall and I thought their best performance without consideration for the opponent. I think of all the games what I liked was they had everyone involved, used the younger guys more and didn't overly rely on DSR until the final stretch. Only shot would be need to finish stronger as that will be tougher to hold against a better team. I know Marquette isn't the best our conference has but they will be competitive with their size.
Hayes played well early but Govan is still better and a hard match-up due to physicality and athleticism. I think the board is too hard on him (did I just say that) and doesn't see that you let the young ones with more talent play and develop quickly because they will. You're all too conservative in your approach on this board. Let the kids play.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Jan 3, 2016 0:23:01 GMT -5
I don't think that this board has been critical of Govan at all. If it has, I've missed those postings. If anything, I think the initial belief was that Govan would get more minutes than Hayes, and Hayes has been a big positive surprise (which, until today, has helped to minimize available minutes for Govan).
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Jan 3, 2016 0:28:30 GMT -5
Tremendous first half, obviously. To me, the second half fall-off was largely the result of the shots not falling and a handful of pretty bad turnovers and a few bad shots. Seemed like they were still getting some looks but the shots weren't falling. All in all, I am pretty happy with the performance. Really love the effort out there, and I thought the frosh were simply outstanding.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Jan 3, 2016 0:45:13 GMT -5
I don't think that this board has been critical of Govan at all. If it has, I've missed those postings. If anything, I think the initial belief was that Govan would get more minutes than Hayes, and Hayes has been a big positive surprise (which, until today, has helped to minimize available minutes for Govan). I don't think he's getting enough respect for what he's doing as posters are holding back on what we are seeing. If we had Hayes out there playing against the bigs on Marquette down the stretch I don't think he fares as well. I think our coach saw what he was bringing. Played 6 less minutes than Hayes but had 1 more rebound, 2 more blocks and 3 more points. |
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HoyaChris
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Post by HoyaChris on Jan 3, 2016 0:50:17 GMT -5
A major point of improvement for both big is that they are keeping their arms straight up defensively.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 3, 2016 1:16:34 GMT -5
I don't think that this board has been critical of Govan at all. If it has, I've missed those postings. If anything, I think the initial belief was that Govan would get more minutes than Hayes, and Hayes has been a big positive surprise (which, until today, has helped to minimize available minutes for Govan). I don't think he's getting enough respect for what he's doing as posters are holding back on what we are seeing. If we had Hayes out there playing against the bigs on Marquette down the stretch I don't think he fares as well. I think our coach saw what he was bringing. Played 6 less minutes than Hayes but had 1 more rebound, 2 more blocks and 3 more points. Don't know if he can keep it up but Govan is shooting 91.4% from the free throw line. That's great for any player but insane for a center. 80% is phenomenal for a center, 70% is good, but 91%. It allows you to keep him on the court and feed him during crunch time because you can't hack a Shaq him. Makes it very hard for teams to cut a deficit with that type of center. If we are able to make the tourney a player like Govan is a huge asset because often times during the tourney ability to hit free throws is the difference at the end of the games with pressure. |
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 3, 2016 1:17:47 GMT -5
A major point of improvement for both big is that they are keeping their arms straight up defensively. Hibbert Plane of Verticality (TM). Noticed that Hayes started doing this in the last game vs Depaul. |
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