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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2015 0:36:42 GMT -5
How does Derrickson only get 4 field goal attempts in 39 minutes played? Because the only time he looks to shoot is when he has a little space behind the 3 point line. Exactly he needs to diversify his game...
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Dec 23, 2015 0:39:22 GMT -5
Because the only time he looks to shoot is when he has a little space behind the 3 point line. Exactly he needs to diversify his game... He's had some looks and made some moves, but then he gets gunshy and gives it up. I think confidence shooting the ball from other places will come with more experience. I'm hoping the same for Govan -- was expecting more out of him offensively (with fewer fumbles) by this point.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2015 0:43:43 GMT -5
Exactly he needs to diversify his game... He's had some looks and made some moves, but then he gets gunshy and gives it up. I think confidence shooting the ball from other places will come with more experience. I'm hoping the same for Govan -- was expecting more out of him offensively (with fewer fumbles) by this point. Govan looks like he's in his head a bit and obviously needs to get a lot stronger.. His hands are better than what he's shown imo
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 23, 2015 0:54:21 GMT -5
How does Derrickson only get 4 field goal attempts in 39 minutes played? How does Tre Campbell get 25 minutes while Kaleb Johnson gets 2? I find it more concerning that White only got 3 minutes. Is it the hip again or did JTIII not like that matchup? White is too good a player to sit that long if he is healthy. Did you not watch the game. Paul white can't even jump anymore. His vertical is an inch. I think he may be done for the season to be honest because his hip is not getting better at all and he's had this injury since summer.
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Dec 23, 2015 1:02:04 GMT -5
He's had some looks and made some moves, but then he gets gunshy and gives it up. I think confidence shooting the ball from other places will come with more experience. I'm hoping the same for Govan -- was expecting more out of him offensively (with fewer fumbles) by this point. Govan looks like he's in his head a bit and obviously needs to get a lot stronger.. His hands are better than what he's shown imo To me, both in his rebounding and his post moves, it looks like with Govan that what he wants to do and then what he does is a bit off-sync, if you know what I mean. For instance, instead of squeezing and taking a short pause, he's turning and looking to outlet, and therefore, he doesn't get the clean board. And when he's making post moves, he gets ahead of himself instead of gathering strong. I think those things happen a lot to young big guys, I guess I was just hoping he'd be over those sorts of jitters already, since I agree, what I've seen from videos and reports from others doesn't really jibe with what we've seen. Sometimes, for guys, the college game is so much faster they have to adjust, but I think with Jessie it's the opposite -- he's thinking he's got to be faster with things than he really has to be, and the rushing is hurting him. Once he lets it come to him, I think he'll be a nice versatile post player. Just hope it comes soon, as our struggles in other areas make him an important piece.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 23, 2015 1:03:56 GMT -5
The refs were calling it very tight and obviously III didn't want DSR to pick-up his third foul in the first half, so he kept him out. The team should have been able to hold on to the 13 point lead with DSR on the bench. Easy to say he should have put him in, but if he picked-up a third foul in the first half, it could have cost us the game. It still doesn't explain why DSR and Copeland were out so long in the second half. The team has to learn how to play without DSR. At times they appear like deer in the headlights. You're right. You don't want a third PF on DSR in the first half. But if this team is as deep as we have been led to believe, a backcourt of Peak, Cameron and Campbell in any combination has got to be able to maintain that spread against a 2-8 team over a period of four minutes, instead of getting outscored by ten points. If Charlotte can do that over four minutes with DSR on the bench, I fear what we'll see during Big East games, when he's been prone to foul issues in big games. The problem is this isn't Kentucky deep. Most of our players are one dimensional and have weaknesses. The ones with the biggest upside are our freshman but we have to sacrifice some wins and points to get them experience now. Derccickson probably cost us about 10 points tonight including the tech but he has a lot of upside so we need to give him the experience now. Honestly wed probably be doing a lot better if we tightened the rotation (like we did at the end of the game with dsr peak copeland Hayes but that's the trade off and dilemma.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Dec 23, 2015 6:49:23 GMT -5
Okay, are you assuming a win over DePaul?? Or did you just miss them on the schedule? We open with them in the BE on Dec. 30. They are up 41-29 over a ranked GW team right now. I actually thought I heard the announcers say our next game was against Marquette. So we'll blame them. Fair enough. I tuned out the announcers when watching the game.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Dec 23, 2015 7:52:44 GMT -5
Watched the game. Glad Hoyas won. Beyond that, not much positive to say. That team was 2-8. Think about that.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Dec 23, 2015 7:58:19 GMT -5
Poor Gene Wang. Doesn't even get his required assignment on the front page of the sports website even Edited. --Admin
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Post by gotgame2 on Dec 23, 2015 8:14:41 GMT -5
I find it concerning that Paul White got 3 minutes when he looked ready to go. What's up with that? Let him get consistent minutes and contribute!
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Post by aleutianhoya on Dec 23, 2015 8:30:38 GMT -5
I find it concerning that Paul White got 3 minutes when he looked ready to go. What's up with that? Let him get consistent minutes and contribute! Did you watch? He looked hurt. He couldn't even get his balance or legs to shoot what would have been a layup.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Dec 23, 2015 8:46:46 GMT -5
I've seen nothing from Tre this year to suggest he should be considered a core player ahead of Kaleb. Kaleb looks to be the best perimeter defender, brings a ton of energy, can hit the boards and scores better than Tre. Wasn't saying he was he fits in the Kaleb Johnson category but tonight was his night... He played well early we built a 14 point lead with him in the game. The overall point I was trying to make that was not written very clearly was we need the 3-4 guys that can make a difference to be the difference. A couple minutes here or there for role players is the least of our worries. I think that JT III's rotation is the least of this team's problems right now. I hope he continues to ride the hot hand. Get your chance and play well and stay in the game. No one--excluding perhaps DSR and Copeland--should be guaranteed heavy minutes. Even then, when DSR or Copeland are not playing well they need to sit. This team is definitely talented and deep. It is also flawed. I keep acknowledging that Hayes is a great story and tries hard at all times, but that does not change the fact that he is a defensive liability on the court in both man and zone. Govan is still very soft and learning and tentative, particularly in trying to fit within the flow of the game on both ends of the court. He needs minutes but he also needs to sit and learn when he is making mental mistakes or not giving the effort needed for a team with little margin for error. Derrickson is also very talented, but raw and tentative. His offense is limited to 3 point set shots right now and those only exist when other shooters are in the game. I like pairing him with Cameron because the opponent cannot focus on both. Together they are currently far and away the best shooters from the perimeter for this team. Tre is coming along and that is a bigger deal than people want to acknowledge because the kid is quick and has better ball-handling skills than other guards on this team. He plays poor defense--who doesn't on this team? What this team needs desperately on offense is for DSR and Copeland to give up forcing the 3 and get back to their mid-range game. Both are deadly inside the arc and incredibly inconsistent from distance. Not saying don't shoot, but forcing the 3 when you are slumping is not going to help. Lastly, I have stayed out of the JT III discussion for the most part trying not to get drawn in by the haters or the apologists, but he does need to make some changes now if this season is going to be salvaged. This "offense" has become offensive too often for long stretches of games as the shorter clock, the absence of ball-handlers who can penetrate and dish (emphasis on the word Dish) and the inability to set quality high screens to free up the outside shooters guarantees a ridiculous amount of passing around the perimeter and then heaving a desperation shot at the buzzer. Please run more. Go small if necessary but capitalize on the athleticism on this team that is otherwise wasted in the staid and predictable half court sets that are too often not working.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Dec 23, 2015 9:18:16 GMT -5
On defense, I'd still like to see us use a passive zone press more frequently as a means of lessening the time we have to defend in the half-court. We tried (for one or maybe two possessions) a more aggressive trapping zone press of the sort others have advocated. And it got shredded. But I think the more passive 1-2-2 would slow up the other team and only give them 20 seconds or so to run their offense. We sort of tried to do that with the man to man in the second half, but it became clear to Charlotte very quickly that it was only token pressure and so it didn't even really slow them up. Aside from that, I agree with those who would like to experiment with a smaller lineup. The only problem is that I don't know that whoever it is you add instead of Brad/Jesse is really going to be a big net improvement. So, we may marginally increase our defensive efficiency, but we would seem likely to lose a lot on the boards. Still, especially against a smaller team (and this really wasn't a small team), I think it's worth a shot if our defense is smelling up the joint.
On offense, I'm all for getting out on the break. We just don't seem to be well equipped for it, especially if Tre isn't in the game. Particularly early in the game, we tried to race the ball up the court, but we didn't have very many odd-man opportunities. The couple of times we had semi-contested fast break chances, we didn't even convert.
What is concerning to me on offense is that everyone in our main rotation (with the possible exception of DSR and -- of all people -- Reggie) looks like they are capable of doing at most one thing.
L.J.: dribble-drive in a straight line directly to the basket; no pull-up and no dish. Ike: Shoot deep jump shots either off the catch or coming around a dribble-hand-off. Brad: Shoot his hook, but only if he gets excellent clean position. Unable to deal with a double; unable to consistently make a strong move to the basket; and unable to re-post. Marcus: Catch and shoot the three. As a set shot, so not available if defended. No post game; no dribble game. Govan: Not really doing anything particularly well. Tre: Shot well for a brief spurt yesterday, but other than that, not doing anything particularly well. Paul: Injured; contributed to losing the big lead in the first half.
I'd note that Paul's importance to our team was readily apparent last night. In his brief minutes he basically got two semi-contested layups that "normal Paul" would have either scored on or gotten fouled 90% of the time. He didn't convert either, but they were probably two of our best 10 half-court looks of the entire game.
Reggie has shown an ability to both shoot and get to the basket. And so has DSR, though he's not shooting as well as we've seen in the past. So far, DSR is the only guy on the entire team who seems to be a plus passer. (Marcus made a bizarre looking sky hook pass to a back-door cutter that got intercepted in the first half.) We can still score when we shoot well, since that's a potential strength of a lot of these guys. Saying that we should "use our athleticism" sounds good in practice, but too few of these guys (I'm looking mostly at you, Ike and L.J.) have shown the ability to translate athletic talent into a multi-faceted offensive game.
The main problem when you have guys that are only able to do one thing well (at most) is that it makes an offense like ours very difficult to execute. I mean, it makes ANY offense very difficult to execute (before this turns into a "I hate the system" referendum.)
This is a great time for a week off. Hopefully, with exams over and a win under our belt, we can hit the practice gym and try to get a little flow on both ends.
EDIT: I meant to add that the other thing I'd like to see is Govan or Marcus getting the bounce pass at the elbow. We have our five or four get the ball there a lot and then look for cutters or otherwise facilitate. They both really ought to be able to knock that shot down if left open a lot of the time, whereas I'm still not completely comfortable with Jesse shooting at the top.
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Post by gotgame2 on Dec 23, 2015 10:03:27 GMT -5
PDub - how is it #13 misses a shot and gets yanked while others make MULTIPLE mistakes and remain on the floor? East Coast Bias! You can't say everything is due to his injury. Give the player a chance to make a contribution or he will never make it back in the rotation.
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Post by hoyafandan on Dec 23, 2015 10:37:44 GMT -5
On defense, I'd still like to see us use a passive zone press more frequently as a means of lessening the time we have to defend in the half-court. We tried (for one or maybe two possessions) a more aggressive trapping zone press of the sort others have advocated. And it got shredded. But I think the more passive 1-2-2 would slow up the other team and only give them 20 seconds or so to run their offense. We sort of tried to do that with the man to man in the second half, but it became clear to Charlotte very quickly that it was only token pressure and so it didn't even really slow them up. Aside from that, I agree with those who would like to experiment with a smaller lineup. The only problem is that I don't know that whoever it is you add instead of Brad/Jesse is really going to be a big net improvement. So, we may marginally increase our defensive efficiency, but we would seem likely to lose a lot on the boards. Still, especially against a smaller team (and this really wasn't a small team), I think it's worth a shot if our defense is smelling up the joint. On offense, I'm all for getting out on the break. We just don't seem to be well equipped for it, especially if Tre isn't in the game. Particularly early in the game, we tried to race the ball up the court, but we didn't have very many odd-man opportunities. The couple of times we had semi-contested fast break chances, we didn't even convert. What is concerning to me on offense is that everyone in our main rotation (with the possible exception of DSR and -- of all people -- Reggie) looks like they are capable of doing at most one thing. L.J.: dribble-drive in a straight line directly to the basket; no pull-up and no dish. Ike: Shoot deep jump shots either off the catch or coming around a dribble-hand-off. Brad: Shoot his hook, but only if he gets excellent clean position. Unable to deal with a double; unable to consistently make a strong move to the basket; and unable to re-post. Marcus: Catch and shoot the three. As a set shot, so not available if defended. No post game; no dribble game. Govan: Not really doing anything particularly well. Tre: Shot well for a brief spurt yesterday, but other than that, not doing anything particularly well. Paul: Injured; contributed to losing the big lead in the first half. I'd note that Paul's importance to our team was readily apparent last night. In his brief minutes he basically got two semi-contested layups that "normal Paul" would have either scored on or gotten fouled 90% of the time. He didn't convert either, but they were probably two of our best 10 half-court looks of the entire game. Reggie has shown an ability to both shoot and get to the basket. And so has DSR, though he's not shooting as well as we've seen in the past. So far, DSR is the only guy on the entire team who seems to be a plus passer. (Marcus made a bizarre looking sky hook pass to a back-door cutter that got intercepted in the first half.) We can still score when we shoot well, since that's a potential strength of a lot of these guys. Saying that we should "use our athleticism" sounds good in practice, but too few of these guys (I'm looking mostly at you, Ike and L.J.) have shown the ability to translate athletic talent into a multi-faceted offensive game. The main problem when you have guys that are only able to do one thing well (at most) is that it makes an offense like ours very difficult to execute. I mean, it makes ANY offense very difficult to execute (before this turns into a "I hate the system" referendum.) This is a great time for a week off. Hopefully, with exams over and a win under our belt, we can hit the practice gym and try to get a little flow on both ends. EDIT: I meant to add that the other thing I'd like to see is Govan or Marcus getting the bounce pass at the elbow. We have our five or four get the ball there a lot and then look for cutters or otherwise facilitate. They both really ought to be able to knock that shot down if left open a lot of the time, whereas I'm still not completely comfortable with Jesse shooting at the top. Definitely agree with your last point. I would love to see more of the offense go through the elbow, like when Monroe was here. I think Govan could be effective from there and it could create just a little more space for when LJ drives to the bucket.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Dec 23, 2015 10:54:54 GMT -5
Do we really think our guys "can't" do more?
I see Ike with his back to the basket looking for cutters who are open 3 times a game and just ask why? Did we really recruit Ike Copeland to look for cutters and catch and shoot threes? Did we recruit Hayes, Govan, and Derrickson to run almost identical screens at the arc? Do we want long, athletic players all over the floor just to play "40 minutes of gosh golly gee" defense?
I don't see one-dimensional. I see a combination of specialists and guys not being put in a position to use all their skills. This is where JTIII gets the most deserved criticism. If guys aren't Jeff, Roy, Greg, or Otto you just don't wish they were or say "I can't believe I didn't get a 5-tool future pro again, woe is me". You have to design your offense and defense around their skills. That's kind of your job. And right now I see a lot of guys being set up to fail on both ends especially given the new rules.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Dec 23, 2015 11:03:50 GMT -5
Nice to see 7-8 from the FT line tonight for LJ. However, the 1-8 from the field is just putrid for a shooting guard with his talent. What is Peak's talent? All I've seen is a physically dominant high school guard whose skills don't translate to the next level in the Selby / Harrison twins mold. Big guards have been getting unjustifiably high ratings since like Orien Greene. Difference is he's a lot less highly regarded than those guys and thus even less effective at this level. He has an above average first step, good strength, soft touch around the bucket, when he's hitting his jumper he is pretty unstoppable and he still has soooo much room to refine his body/skills, he's pretty raw at this point but with the proper coaching he will be a problem. The reason why you aren't seeing it clear as day yet is that people are still picking the lane and trying to take away his strengths, but in games where his jumper is falling he gets to the bucket at will. Not to mention he got fouled a few more times than they called last night. For players like Peak, the question isn't whether or not he gets fouled when he gets into the lane (80%+ of the time he does), but it's more a matter of if the refs are gonna call it. His looser handle makes it natural for people to want to reach and most of the time they just end up missing and fouling
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Post by aleutianhoya on Dec 23, 2015 11:11:32 GMT -5
Do we really think our guys "can't" do more? I see Ike with his back to the basket looking for cutters who are open 3 times a game and just ask why? Did we really recruit Ike Copeland to look for cutters and catch and shoot threes? Did we recruit Hayes, Govan, and Derrickson to run almost identical screens at the arc? Do we want long, athletic players all over the floor just to play "40 minutes of gosh golly gee" defense? I don't see one-dimensional. I see a combination of specialists and guys not being put in a position to use all their skills. This is where JTIII gets the most deserved criticism. If guys aren't Jeff, Roy, Greg, or Otto you just don't wish they were or say "I can't believe I didn't get a 5-tool future pro again, woe is me". You have to design your offense and defense around their skills. That's kind of your job. And right now I see a lot of guys being set up to fail on both ends especially given the new rules. I both agree and disagree. I think there are better ways to utilize our talent, as I've said. But to use your Ike example: He gets the ball a TON out on the wing one-on-one with his defender. And with our offense, we tend to have spacing such that if he can beat his man, he's got a clear lane to the basket. But I just haven't seen him able to do it. He's tried (he tried several times last night). With his leaping ability, and the fact that he's often matched-up on a smaller guy, you'd really love to see him take two dribbles there, stop and elevate. We know he can make that sort of move at times because it's really his one go-to move when he's moving left-to-right toward the top of the key. And we know Coach has no problem with players making that sort of play (Peak goes right to the basket in that scenario all the time; DSR goes one-on-one there too). He really ought to be able to post-up, too, and I'd love to see us use an inverted post. But he just doesn't seem comfortable there. I guess what I'm saying is: I'm not sure at this point, based on what I've seen, what the best way to utilize his talents is. And my larger point was that I can go through and say similar things about virtually everyone. It's fine to have one or two one-dimensional guys on the court. We've won with one or two no dimensional guys. But it's hard when every defender (except the guy on DSR) knows that he only needs to defend one thing. With Marcus? I actually think we're using his offensive talents about as well as we can, given what I've seen. He's great at shooting catch-and-shoot threes. He's put in position to do that an awful lot. I assumed coming into the year that a guy his size would have at least a passable post game, but he hasn't. (To be fair, his shooting has been better than I expected.) Maybe I'd have him set more screens when he's in there so that he can pop and shoot rather than try to have Brad or Jesse roll. I've said that before. But, really, other than that, I'm not sure what system or plays would make more use of him. Brad is very limited. If he's not scoring in the post, what do you want to do with him? And Jesse, for right now, really isn't doing much that's helpful, no matter what you tried to do with him.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Dec 23, 2015 11:32:16 GMT -5
Lots to talk about after this one, but my focus is offense since the defense is just a lack of team cohesion and effort right now.
On offense, we have no inside out game whether that be post up or dribble penetration and kick. That is a huge problem. 1-6 for 2 pts from our #5 position last night against UNCC is shameful. I appreciate the rebounds, but some of those should be on offense and result in easy putbacks. I appreciate all the improvement by Hayes, but he is far from a complete player. I would like to see us get it in to him more when he gets position, draw attention from the defense and kick it back out or make the move for a foul or better. Govan is jittery, the game is moving to fast for him and as a result he hurrying everything he is doing. This will go away, just keep giving him the minutes, he will adjust.
I am disappointed in Ike all-around this season. I keep hearing he is a stud, not seeing it. If that was true, he should be taking over games, I dont think Otto asked for permission from III to take over and neither should Ike. No one is going to get mad if he is taking the ball toward the rim versus settling for a 3. He is long, how about a post-up, he can do that on his own since he is a decent ball handler. He really has no cretaivity or aggression to his game, until that develops he is no stud to me. This is regardless of coaching, Peak was going off script last night trying to make something happen and he got the line and made 7-8, he saved us with that aggression.
For me, Derrickson is allowed to be one dimensional on offense this season. He is a freshman, he needs to get comfortable with the other parts of the game before I expect him to be multi-faceted on offense. At least he spreads the floor and can grab a board on defense.
DSR, not sure what to make of him right now. Very inconsistent, he has definitely lost his edge. Hoping that comes back as we play better teams. I will never doubt the guy or be too hard on him because I love his contribution to this team for 3+ years. But I really hope he is able to find a rhythm not just from 3 but also getting those intermediate shots we know he can make.
I am sad for Paul White, but if he really cannot contribute at this point, just medical redshirt him (if even possible) or close him down for the season and get surgery/rest. There is no point if the hip is going to be a chronic problem all season. It sucks for him and the team, he is a really difference maker imo and provides the 5 tool player everyone wishes we had.
Amazingly, the most improved offensive player on this team is no doubt Reggie Cameron. I did not see that coming, but I appreciate what he is trying to do out there and I have no problem with him getting minutes.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Dec 23, 2015 11:45:08 GMT -5
So let's say we're one-dimensional all over the place. Could we not run DSR, Peak, Cameron, Copeland, and Derrickson rotating in Campbell and Govan (and White when healthy) and actually move quickly drive and kick and look for threes actively? I don't love three-heavy offenses but we shoot a ton anyway after our Washington Generals weave leaves someone holding the ball when the music stops. Is that not in the skill set of those players? Then bring in Hayes as a change of pace?
Defensively, can we extend full court more often to dictate the amount of time opponents have to operate and not allow them to charge into the gums of our 2-3?
This is college basketball. Few teams have a host of multi-dimensional players. They just have an identity and a shared goal on both ends. I don't know what our goals are right now much less how our schemes support them.
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