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Post by williambraskyiii on Mar 12, 2015 11:14:35 GMT -5
Are you being sarcastic? I can't tell. I wish he was, but I am almost certain he is not. Dude, sleepy, why don't you sit the next couple rounds out, stop talking for a while. There is negativity and then there is sleepy.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 12, 2015 11:14:56 GMT -5
I don't see how anyone can dispute that it's generally better to be playing well and remain healthy going into the NCAAs than to be not playing well and/or to be unhealthy. Sure, neither guarantees success or failure, but one is still better than the other. If we put up a stinker tonight, of course we can still get to the Sweet 16, but I'd still rather play well and win. The only risk in a tournament like this (aside from injury) is that you win in a fools-gold sort of way or you stink so badly your confidence is ruined. That is, as to the former, your run to the championship is through bad teams due to upsets, or you beat good teams but because they missed a ton of open shots or you happened to make a lot of bad (contested) shots. That can bleed over into the following week. As to the latter, lose to Creighton and there's a risk there's some significant mental doubt. I don't see any significant risk of "fatigue." It's three games in three days...not four or (worse) the five that are in some tournaments. And we've got four whole days off afterward. Play well and stay healthy are the primary goals, and if we do both of those things, the odds are very good that we win today anyway (and decent odds we win tomorrow, too). I see no benefit (aside from a higher likelihood of health) in losing. We don't need a wake up call. Coach and (more importantly) the juniors/seniors aren't going to let the youngsters (or themselves) take Stephen F. Austin lightly. And as for a seed? Sure, you could get stuck with a bad matchup even with a better seed or you could even get stuck with a better team if you get screwed, but the odds are still better that you play a worse team the higher your seed is. Maybe it's all a marginal difference, but I'll take advantages at the margins! I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said here except to the extent that you think losing today would somehow change the team's outlook. It just won't. There just isn't any statistical evidence of "momentum" from one game to another, and losing one game to a team that beat Oklahoma and hung recently with Villanova doesn't mean we "aren't playing well" or some other general description. It means we lost a game to a lesser team playing for its tournament life and capable of beating tournament teams. I think everybody gets my point now. I'll cease. Wait - losing today would not "change the team's outlook" and would not shake its confidence - but it could, in your own term, "wake us up"? C'mon Dog, that is quite a reach. That said, the fact that we are comfortably in the tourney certainly means this is not a crucial game. And I will not obsess over what each round means to our seed. But losing to the last place team in your conference is always a bad thing.
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 12, 2015 11:16:10 GMT -5
I think we should all pause to appreciate that the Hoyatalk meltdown has begun even before the game tips off. That's a new one even for us, I believe.
Oh - and hey! - I just noticed that Creighton is the only possible double digit seed we could be playing this week! Bodes well!
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 12, 2015 11:16:39 GMT -5
I'm not sure how we had so much success against Creighton before. They expose all of our defensive weaknesses, they can shoot the 3, have a big man inside that can score, and guards that can penetrate. I think this is going to be a dogfight we will be lucky to survive. Last place sleepy. Last place. We are much better than them. We got this.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 12, 2015 11:16:56 GMT -5
I'm not sure how we had so much success against Creighton before. They expose all of our defensive weaknesses, they can shoot the 3, have a big man inside that can score, and guards that can penetrate. I think this is going to be a dogfight we will be lucky to survive. Are you being sarcastic? I can't tell. Nothing I said was even negative or hyperbolic. They really should be more successful against our defense than they have been based on our flaws their their abilities. They just took Villanova and Xavier down to the wire and blew out Depaul. They are playing well right now and playing for their season to stay alive. To think this isn't going to be a complete dogfight, imo, is crazy.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Mar 12, 2015 11:22:25 GMT -5
I think we should all pause to appreciate that the Hoyatalk meltdown has begun even before the game tips off. That's a new one even for us, I believe. Oh - and hey! - I just noticed that Creighton is the only possible double digit seed we could be playing this week! Bodes well! Yep. HoyaTalk PTSD has returned.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 12, 2015 11:24:22 GMT -5
I'm not sure how we had so much success against Creighton before. They expose all of our defensive weaknesses, they can shoot the 3, have a big man inside that can score, and guards that can penetrate. I think this is going to be a dogfight we will be lucky to survive. Last place sleepy. Last place. We are much better yhan them. We got this. Last place, sure, but they have had an insane amount of close games against the best teams in the league. They lost by 2 to Butler, 4 to Nova, 1 to Xavier. All in the last few weeks. I'm sure they are going to come in quite confident AND desperate tonight, while we will have been coming off a 5 day lay-off and DSR a 9 day lay-off. This game is going to be close and will be a hard fought battle. I think you people are delusional if you expect a comfortable victory.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Mar 12, 2015 11:24:53 GMT -5
Are you being sarcastic? I can't tell. Nothing I said was even negative or hyperbolic. They really should be more successful against our defense than they have been based on our flaws their their abilities. They just took Villanova and Xavier down to the wire and blew out Depaul. They are playing well right now and playing for their season to stay alive. To think this isn't going to be a complete dogfight, imo, is crazy. Nova is a horrible match-up for Creighton. If anything, your worries are more applicable to Nova, which can't seem to prevent Creighton from getting open threes. Aside from Nova's home blowout of Creighton this year, the Bluejays have gone 9/12 (60%), 21/35 (60%) and 10/22 (45.5%) from behind the arc against Nova.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Mar 12, 2015 11:28:07 GMT -5
Nothing I said was even negative or hyperbolic. They really should be more successful against our defense than they have been based on our flaws their their abilities. They just took Villanova and Xavier down to the wire and blew out Depaul. They are playing well right now and playing for their season to stay alive. To think this isn't going to be a complete dogfight, imo, is crazy. Nova is a horrible match-up for Creighton. If anything, your worries are more applicable to Nova, which can't seem to prevent Creighton from getting open threes. Aside from Nova's home blowout of Creighton this year, the Bluejays have gone 9/12 (60%), 21/35 (60%) and 10/22 (45.5%) from behind the arc against Nova. Yeah, im willing to buy any argument that this might be a close game, except for the fact that they are a bad matchup for us. That is just not true, as evidenced by, you know, the 37 and 15 point wins. Id be more willing to buy the "its hard beat a team 3 times" argument before this one.
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Mar 12, 2015 11:31:33 GMT -5
Every game IS important. Play for HOYA Pride and silence the critics that call us inconsistent! I could not agree more. Although let's be honest..we have been consistently inconsistent the entire year, other than avoiding a "bad loss." Would love to see at least two wins in the BET and more important in terms of recruiting, attendance, etc...making it to the second weekend of the Big Dance.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 12, 2015 11:42:34 GMT -5
Nova is a horrible match-up for Creighton. If anything, your worries are more applicable to Nova, which can't seem to prevent Creighton from getting open threes. Aside from Nova's home blowout of Creighton this year, the Bluejays have gone 9/12 (60%), 21/35 (60%) and 10/22 (45.5%) from behind the arc against Nova. Yeah, im willing to buy any argument that this might be a close game, except for the fact that they are a bad matchup for us. That is just not true, as evidenced by, you know, the 37 and 15 point wins. Id be more willing to buy the "its hard beat a team 3 times" argument before this one. I said they SHOULD be a bad match-up for us. Watching them, not against us, they are able to penetrate, hit three's, AND have an inside presence. All 3 of those aspects of our defense can be exposed. Excuse me for expressing befuddlement on how Creighton was unable to do so the last two years. It is also not crazy to think this game will be very close, even if you disregard Creighton's recent play. We may have beaten all the teams we should have, but we certainly haven't dominated them. We are an inch away from having lost to the 9th place Big East team and I seem to remember a 5 point win at home against Depaul two weeks ago. And it's not as if we haven't blown out a team only to be dominated by them only a week later (St. Johns), so I'm not sure why thinking this game is going to be tough can be construed as a negative, if not realistic. I never have thought having a bye was an an advantage to anyone but the team that did have a game in the first round. So yes, it's going to be tough. It was also "only" a 27 point victory.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 12, 2015 11:46:30 GMT -5
It is never crazy to think that one of our games may be close, no matter the opponent. You are 100% right about that sleepy.
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Mar 12, 2015 11:50:04 GMT -5
If I said that I really believed a loss would be good for this team, that isn't what I intended. But I don't think I said that. My point ultimately again is that there is no correlation between what happens today and what happens next week. The team could lose today and go to the Final Four, or win today and lose next week.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Mar 12, 2015 11:51:03 GMT -5
Yeah, im willing to buy any argument that this might be a close game, except for the fact that they are a bad matchup for us. That is just not true, as evidenced by, you know, the 37 and 15 point wins. Id be more willing to buy the "its hard beat a team 3 times" argument before this one. I said they SHOULD be a bad match-up for us. Watching them, not against us, they are able to penetrate, hit three's, AND have an inside presence. All 3 of those aspects of our defense can be exposed. Excuse me for expressing befuddlement on how Creighton was unable to do so the last two years. It is also not crazy to think this game will be very close, even if you disregard Creighton's recent play. We may have beaten all the teams we should have, but we certainly haven't dominated them. We are an inch away from having lost to the 9th place Big East team and I seem to remember a 5 point win at home against Depaul two weeks ago. And it's not as if we haven't blown out a team only to be dominated by them only a week later (St. Johns), so I'm not sure why thinking this game is going to be tough can be construed as a negative, if not realistic. I never have thought having a bye was an an advantage to anyone but the team that didn't have a game in the first round. So yes, it's going to be tough. Yes. I understand what you said, and I am expressing befuddlement as to how you can believe that. I think we defend well against teams that penetrate and kick out, and that's the type of team Creighton is. That's what happened in the first Nova game. III sucked Wright into that game and it was smart. In the second game, Nova realized that instead of having R.A. penetrate and kick, they just had to pass around the perimeter until there was a wide open 3, and they promptly exposed our awful 2-3. I dont think Creighton has the players to do that, but I will give them credit if they do. Who are these good 3 point shooters you speak of and this good inside presence?
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Post by williambraskyiii on Mar 12, 2015 11:54:35 GMT -5
I said they SHOULD be a bad match-up for us. Watching them, not against us, they are able to penetrate, hit three's, AND have an inside presence. All 3 of those aspects of our defense can be exposed. Excuse me for expressing befuddlement on how Creighton was unable to do so the last two years. It is also not crazy to think this game will be very close, even if you disregard Creighton's recent play. We may have beaten all the teams we should have, but we certainly haven't dominated them. We are an inch away from having lost to the 9th place Big East team and I seem to remember a 5 point win at home against Depaul two weeks ago. And it's not as if we haven't blown out a team only to be dominated by them only a week later (St. Johns), so I'm not sure why thinking this game is going to be tough can be construed as a negative, if not realistic. I never have thought having a bye was an an advantage to anyone but the team that didn't have a game in the first round. So yes, it's going to be tough. Yes. I understand what you said, and I am expressing befuddlement as to how you can possibly believe that. I think we defend well against teams that penetrate and kick out, and that's the type of team Creighton is. That's what happened in the first Nova game. III sucked Wright into that game and it was smart. In the second game, Nova realized that instead of having R.A. penetrate and kick, they just had to pass around the perimeter until there was a wide open 3, and they promptly exposed our awful 2-3. I dont think Creighton has the players to do that, but I will give them credit if they do. Who are these good 3 point shooters you speak of and this good inside presence? Well I think we will win by 10 so one of us will be wrong, sleepy. I think we both hope it is you.
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Post by JohnnyJones on Mar 12, 2015 11:56:56 GMT -5
I just hope we can scratch and claw and just tried to make a game out of it tonight. And maybe get lucky and even get the W.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 12, 2015 11:59:46 GMT -5
If I said that I really believed a loss would be good for this team, that isn't what I intended. But I don't think I said that. My point ultimately again is that there is no correlation between what happens today and what happens next week. The team could lose today and go to the Final Four, or win today and lose next week. That doesn't mean there is no correlation between the outcomes. It just means it is impossible to know how previous games affect future games. Maybe a loss made a coach bench a certain player or mix up the starting line-up, made a star realize he needs to get someone else involved, woke them up, etc etc. Not to mention if that same team had won they likely would have been seeded differently with a different path to the final foul and it is likely they wouldn't have gone to the final four. Basically, yes, todays results have a huge impact on next week, it is just impossible to determine what kind of impact a win or a loss will have. For instance, had we won the BET championship in 2008 or not gone to the BET championship game we likely would have never had to have faced Davidson that year. Maybe we still would have gone on to lose in the second round, or maybe we would have gone to back to back final fours. Who knows, but the games the previous week certainly played a factor in our fate.
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hoyarad
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Post by hoyarad on Mar 12, 2015 12:08:35 GMT -5
Stop the madness. Stop writing. Watch the game and then come back. Post your thoughts then. Thanks!
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 12, 2015 12:09:18 GMT -5
If I said that I really believed a loss would be good for this team, that isn't what I intended. But I don't think I said that. My point ultimately again is that there is no correlation between what happens today and what happens next week. The team could lose today and go to the Final Four, or win today and lose next week. I don't know about zero correlation, but I certainly agree there is most likely minimal correlation at most, and very possibly zero. I think that I and others were reacting to the suggestion that a loss tonight could very well "wake us up", which to some extent suggests that a loss could be beneficial. In any event, only a few more hours before this discussion fades and a different one grabs the lead.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 12, 2015 12:20:49 GMT -5
I said they SHOULD be a bad match-up for us. Watching them, not against us, they are able to penetrate, hit three's, AND have an inside presence. All 3 of those aspects of our defense can be exposed. Excuse me for expressing befuddlement on how Creighton was unable to do so the last two years. It is also not crazy to think this game will be very close, even if you disregard Creighton's recent play. We may have beaten all the teams we should have, but we certainly haven't dominated them. We are an inch away from having lost to the 9th place Big East team and I seem to remember a 5 point win at home against Depaul two weeks ago. And it's not as if we haven't blown out a team only to be dominated by them only a week later (St. Johns), so I'm not sure why thinking this game is going to be tough can be construed as a negative, if not realistic. I never have thought having a bye was an an advantage to anyone but the team that didn't have a game in the first round. So yes, it's going to be tough. Yes. I understand what you said, and I am expressing befuddlement as to how you can believe that. I think we defend well against teams that penetrate and kick out, and that's the type of team Creighton is. That's what happened in the first Nova game. III sucked Wright into that game and it was smart. In the second game, Nova realized that instead of having R.A. penetrate and kick, they just had to pass around the perimeter until there was a wide open 3, and they promptly exposed our awful 2-3. I dont think Creighton has the players to do that, but I will give them credit if they do. Who are these good 3 point shooters you speak of and this good inside presence? They do have 4 guys shooting over 36% from 3 this season. And while I will admit, I never thought much of their inside presence recently, Artino looked similar to Steinbrook, who I think is our worst inside match-up, last night. And no, I'm not crazy, I don't think Artino will turn into Steinbrook overnight, but he is at least someone to contend with which could possibly cause problems if Creighton gets hot from outside. Basically I am worried about our inability to identify shooters opening up their penetration and allowing Artino to build off of last nights performance. If that happens, it will be a tight game and I think will ultimately go down to the wire. I think we got a little lucky in the second Creighton game that they couldn't hit the broadside of a barn, and they had quite a few uncontested looks. We still would have won, I just don't think it would have been a 27 point domination.
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