Filo
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Post by Filo on Mar 13, 2015 8:49:38 GMT -5
Was also in section 120. Won't lie - down 5 with under 6 minutes to play I said no way we win since we simply can't score. We were really scratching our heads about the substitution patterns toward the end. Ike barely played in the 2nd half and White and Peak seemed to be getting the minutes. Don't really get it but it worked. The zone did a nice job at the end and really held Creighton from scoring.
Can't believe how empty the Garden was for the last game. Depressing.
Back in 120 tonight. Hoping we can finally figure out Xavier.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Mar 13, 2015 8:55:41 GMT -5
Once their two "bigs" Artino and Goselle were in foul trouble, Creighton's "defense" collapsed. They no longer had anyone to even hack Josh's arms or hold cutters in the lane.
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Post by aleutianhoya on Mar 13, 2015 9:02:40 GMT -5
Was also in section 120. Won't lie - down 5 with under 6 minutes to play I said no way we win since we simply can't score. We were really scratching our heads about the substitution patterns toward the end. Ike barely played in the 2nd half and White and Peak seemed to be getting the minutes. Don't really get it but it worked. The zone did a nice job at the end and really held Creighton from scoring. Can't believe how empty the Garden was for the last game. Depressing. Back in 120 tonight. Hoping we can finally figure out Xavier. I think when we go to the zone, Ike still has a lot of trouble with his rotational responsibilities. None of the three was providing much on offense (though LJ got aggressive toward the end to some effect), so the substitutions were designed to shore up the defense. At least that's what I thought.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Mar 13, 2015 9:37:17 GMT -5
Our defensive adjustment on Milliken was pretty incredible. He had 11 points in the first half, but he scored his last points (field goal and free throw) at the 16:26 mark in the second half on that weird four point play. After that he not only failed to score from the floor or the line, but he only took three more shots all game: 1 missed layup ten minutes later with 6:30 to go and two missed threes with 33 and 7 seconds to go. Not to mention, he had the ignominious honor of throwing the ball out of bounds with 19 seconds to go after he left the floor and found a looming Joshington Monument obstructing his airspace. As he said in the post-game, their entire offense had been pretty much predicated around him getting the ball off screens and we effectively denied him the ball and shut him down. Well done.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 13, 2015 9:59:49 GMT -5
Was also in section 120. Won't lie - down 5 with under 6 minutes to play I said no way we win since we simply can't score. We were really scratching our heads about the substitution patterns toward the end. Ike barely played in the 2nd half and White and Peak seemed to be getting the minutes. Don't really get it but it worked. The zone did a nice job at the end and really held Creighton from scoring. Can't believe how empty the Garden was for the last game. Depressing. Back in 120 tonight. Hoping we can finally figure out Xavier. I think when we go to the zone, Ike still has a lot of trouble with his rotational responsibilities. None of the three was providing much on offense (though LJ got aggressive toward the end to some effect), so the substitutions were designed to shore up the defense. At least that's what I thought. Exactly. Our defense swung momentum, and Paul and LJ have developed more quickly on that end.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 13, 2015 10:02:05 GMT -5
Our defensive adjustment on Milliken was pretty incredible. He had 11 points in the first half, but he scored his last points (field goal and free throw) at the 16:26 mark in the second half on that weird four point play. After that he not only failed to score from the floor or the line, but he only took three more shots all game: 1 missed layup ten minutes later with 6:30 to go and two missed threes with 33 and 7 seconds to go. Not to mention, he had the ignominious honor of throwing the ball out of bounds with 19 seconds to go after he left the floor and found a looming Joshington Monument obstructing his airspace. As he said in the post-game, their entire offense had been pretty much predicated around him getting the ball off screens and we effectively denied him the ball and shut him down. Well done. Good points. Coach rotated defenders on him, may have worn him down. Their offense was limited without him.
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swhoya
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Post by swhoya on Mar 13, 2015 10:34:07 GMT -5
what the hell does peak give this team that tre does not? horrible coaching by III You realize you post some version of "III sucks" about a dozen times in 3 minutes. You don't like him. We get it. Do you have anything else to contribute?
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 13, 2015 11:59:46 GMT -5
No, your eyes didn't deceive you. McDermott's whole strategy was that the only way to beat us was to have Groselle and Artino flop and take Hopkins and Smith out of the game. On some of the plays Hopkins or Hayes would barley touch Groselle or Artino (the two Creighton 7 footers) and those two would act as if they had gotten shot in the back and jumped 5 feet in the air thrust forward by a huge movie explosion. It was comical yet the refs bought it. The Junior, Groselle was a big part of the flopping game plan. In the first two games he only played 9 and 14 minutes and didn't foul out of either game. But in this game he played 21 minutes until he fouled out. I actually thought the officials let us play a good deal, aside from Josh's second foul (a phantom foul if ever there was one). The dude may have flopped to earn Mikael that foul, but let's face it, Mikael -- objectively -- frequently lowers his shoulder and plows his entire weight into a stationary defender to create some space. It is often truly an offensive foul, and it's the easiest kind of offensive foul to embellish given Mikael's body action. I thought we generally bumped an awful lot in that game on defense, including times that the bumps absolutely affected the shot or the ballhandler, so they weren't all just "nickle dimers." We can argue about whether those should be called, but usually they will be, and that would have killed us last night. Just a couple big picture points: (1) I thought our zone was a nice disrupter, but it still wasn't a great zone. We did a good job of limiting open threes, but when they got the ball to the high post (which they frequently did) our wing defenders weren't very good at all at dropping down to cover the basket for the high-low or recovering out to the corner. Josh's hands (and feet) were terrific in there (and I was glad to see Raf mention that) to make up for it. But a better team would have killed it. (2) I suppose I'd rather we played really well on both ends like Nova did. But this was a close second. Practice having to play meaningful minutes without both bigs? Check. Have Josh practice not getting cheapies in the second half? Check. Have DSR and Josh know when it's time to take over and execute? Check. Witness Coach making necessary adjustments in-game? Check. (3) Now we need Ike (or Paul) to rev it up. Agree they let us play mostly. I had less referee hate on the flopping than just Creighton hate. And Josh hate, for the span where it seemed like he was just trying to commit a foul and every time they'd let him get away with something, he'd escalate. Drives me nuts. Our zone is really freaking good except: a) for the giant gaping hole available for a corner three on almost any play b) when the the center is not being attentive enough to control the passing lanes to below the basket. I suppose that means it's not that good. But it can be good if the opponent can't exploit those weaknesses.
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Post by JohnnyJones on Mar 13, 2015 12:21:42 GMT -5
Can't believe how empty the Garden was for the last game. Depressing. I understand what you are saying, but the last game of quarterfinals day often cleared out a lot in years past as well. The real test will be tonight. From a crowd perspective, would have been good to have SJU, but I am told PC fans showed up in pretty good numbers during the day yesterday.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2015 12:23:42 GMT -5
So we get a foul called on us for the guy turning an ankle? That call was unbelievably bad. Creighton made an AWFUL pass, Peak had inside position and went for the ball, Dingman landed awkwardly and turned his ankle, and - as happens far too often - a college hoops referee saw something that didn't actually happen and called whatever the F he wanted to call.
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 13, 2015 12:33:57 GMT -5
So we get a foul called on us for the guy turning an ankle? That call was unbelievably bad. Creighton made an AWFUL pass, Peak had inside position and went for the ball, Dingman landed awkwardly and turned his ankle, and - as happens far too often - a college hoops referee saw something that didn't actually happen and called whatever the F he wanted to call. Dingnam was trying to do the Italian soccer style flop by jumping in the air and throwing his chest into Peak and his arms in the air on that play just like Artino and Gosselle were doing the whole game.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 13, 2015 13:47:12 GMT -5
That call was unbelievably bad. Creighton made an AWFUL pass, Peak had inside position and went for the ball, Dingman landed awkwardly and turned his ankle, and - as happens far too often - a college hoops referee saw something that didn't actually happen and called whatever the F he wanted to call. Dingnam was trying to do the Italian soccer style flop by jumping in the air and throwing his chest into Peak and his arms in the air on that play just like Artino and Gosselle were doing the whole game. Score one for karma.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 13, 2015 13:53:26 GMT -5
I actually thought the officials let us play a good deal, aside from Josh's second foul (a phantom foul if ever there was one). The dude may have flopped to earn Mikael that foul, but let's face it, Mikael -- objectively -- frequently lowers his shoulder and plows his entire weight into a stationary defender to create some space. It is often truly an offensive foul, and it's the easiest kind of offensive foul to embellish given Mikael's body action. I thought we generally bumped an awful lot in that game on defense, including times that the bumps absolutely affected the shot or the ballhandler, so they weren't all just "nickle dimers." We can argue about whether those should be called, but usually they will be, and that would have killed us last night. Just a couple big picture points: (1) I thought our zone was a nice disrupter, but it still wasn't a great zone. We did a good job of limiting open threes, but when they got the ball to the high post (which they frequently did) our wing defenders weren't very good at all at dropping down to cover the basket for the high-low or recovering out to the corner. Josh's hands (and feet) were terrific in there (and I was glad to see Raf mention that) to make up for it. But a better team would have killed it. (2) I suppose I'd rather we played really well on both ends like Nova did. But this was a close second. Practice having to play meaningful minutes without both bigs? Check. Have Josh practice not getting cheapies in the second half? Check. Have DSR and Josh know when it's time to take over and execute? Check. Witness Coach making necessary adjustments in-game? Check. (3) Now we need Ike (or Paul) to rev it up. Agree they let us play mostly. I had less referee hate on the flopping than just Creighton hate. And Josh hate, for the span where it seemed like he was just trying to commit a foul and every time they'd let him get away with something, he'd escalate. Drives me nuts. Our zone is really freaking good except: a) for the giant gaping hole available for a corner three on almost any play b) when the the center is not being attentive enough to control the passing lanes to below the basket. I suppose that means it's not that good. But it can be good if the opponent can't exploit those weaknesses. Because our zone was so focused on extending out to the 3 point line, the guards could not quickly get back to the man at the free throw line. That forces the center to step out; Josh is just not quick or athletic enough to step out while still disrupting the passing lanes, but with Hop in foul trouble we had no option. That leaves it to the wing to recover down low. I think Ike failed to get there a couple of times, may be why he sat the last minutes.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Mar 13, 2015 14:10:33 GMT -5
Agree they let us play mostly. I had less referee hate on the flopping than just Creighton hate. And Josh hate, for the span where it seemed like he was just trying to commit a foul and every time they'd let him get away with something, he'd escalate. Drives me nuts. Our zone is really freaking good except: a) for the giant gaping hole available for a corner three on almost any play b) when the the center is not being attentive enough to control the passing lanes to below the basket. I suppose that means it's not that good. But it can be good if the opponent can't exploit those weaknesses. Because our zone was so focused on extending out to the 3 point line, the guards could not quickly get back to the man at the free throw line. That forces the center to step out; Josh is just not quick or athletic enough to step out while still disrupting the passing lanes, but with Hop in foul trouble we had no option. That leaves it to the wing to recover down low. I think Ike failed to get there a couple of times, may be why he sat the last minutes. I'd also like to see one game where Georgetown doesn't fall victim to the old CYO-level steal from behind while dribbling. Bowen turned the ball over at a crucial point last night because he didn't have awareness of his surroundings. This seems to happen Every. Single. Game.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 13, 2015 14:30:55 GMT -5
Because our zone was so focused on extending out to the 3 point line, the guards could not quickly get back to the man at the free throw line. That forces the center to step out; Josh is just not quick or athletic enough to step out while still disrupting the passing lanes, but with Hop in foul trouble we had no option. That leaves it to the wing to recover down low. I think Ike failed to get there a couple of times, may be why he sat the last minutes. I'd also like to see one game where Georgetown doesn't fall victim to the old CYO-level steal from behind while dribbling. Bowen turned the ball over at a crucial point last night because he didn't have awareness of his surroundings. This seems to happen Every. Single. Game. Tre did the same thing in the first half. Twice in one game is even more inexplicable.
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 13, 2015 14:44:37 GMT -5
Agree they let us play mostly. I had less referee hate on the flopping than just Creighton hate. And Josh hate, for the span where it seemed like he was just trying to commit a foul and every time they'd let him get away with something, he'd escalate. Drives me nuts. Our zone is really freaking good except: a) for the giant gaping hole available for a corner three on almost any play b) when the the center is not being attentive enough to control the passing lanes to below the basket. I suppose that means it's not that good. But it can be good if the opponent can't exploit those weaknesses. Because our zone was so focused on extending out to the 3 point line, the guards could not quickly get back to the man at the free throw line. That forces the center to step out; Josh is just not quick or athletic enough to step out while still disrupting the passing lanes, but with Hop in foul trouble we had no option. That leaves it to the wing to recover down low. I think Ike failed to get there a couple of times, may be why he sat the last minutes. It was almost a Pack the Line version of the zone that would morph into a 1-2-2. Take away all the 3pt options except the baseline corner (but even there the shooter only had about a half second before the close out). The good thing though was that all the perimeter defenders were very long and quick so could close out to the paint to prevent dribble penetration. I get the feeling this defense was being saved for an eventual game with Villanova in the BET but they decided they had to use it now in order to comeback against Creighton. It will be interesting to see if they use this modified Pack the Line zone for the remaining games in the season.
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 13, 2015 14:45:33 GMT -5
I'd also like to see one game where Georgetown doesn't fall victim to the old CYO-level steal from behind while dribbling. Bowen turned the ball over at a crucial point last night because he didn't have awareness of his surroundings. This seems to happen Every. Single. Game. Tre did the same thing in the first half. Twice in one game is even more inexplicable. The one negative on Tre is he has a very high dribble. He can get away with it because he's fast but against higher competition he will get his pocket picked if he keeps dribbling so high.
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Post by JohnnyJones on Mar 13, 2015 15:36:29 GMT -5
Because our zone was so focused on extending out to the 3 point line, the guards could not quickly get back to the man at the free throw line. That forces the center to step out; Josh is just not quick or athletic enough to step out while still disrupting the passing lanes, but with Hop in foul trouble we had no option. That leaves it to the wing to recover down low. I think Ike failed to get there a couple of times, may be why he sat the last minutes. I'd also like to see one game where Georgetown doesn't fall victim to the old CYO-level steal from behind while dribbling. Bowen turned the ball over at a crucial point last night because he didn't have awareness of his surroundings. This seems to happen Every. Single. Game. We commented on the same thing last night. They have to talk to each other in those situations.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 13, 2015 15:38:52 GMT -5
So we get a foul called on us for the guy turning an ankle? That call was unbelievably bad. Creighton made an AWFUL pass, Peak had inside position and went for the ball, Dingman landed awkwardly and turned his ankle, and - as happens far too often - a college hoops referee saw something that didn't actually happen and called whatever the F he wanted to call. That call was mystifying when it happened. I get that the Creighton player got injured but from where I was sitting it looked like her went over/through Peak's back - how that became a foul on Peak was inexplicable, They even went to the monitor to look at it and didn't change it. Mr. Cahill, I'm looking at you.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 13, 2015 15:42:37 GMT -5
I'd also like to see one game where Georgetown doesn't fall victim to the old CYO-level steal from behind while dribbling. Bowen turned the ball over at a crucial point last night because he didn't have awareness of his surroundings. This seems to happen Every. Single. Game. And the foul on the 3-pointer. Every. Single. Game. Twice yesterday? If JT3 has instructed our players to do the Nate Lubick fly-bys to distract the 3-pt shooter, that only exposes our defender to Italian soccer/Dukie/Nova tactics that are becoming the norm in basketball. We're going to need yellow cards soon. I would add the missed bunnies by Hops and Josh, but that's beating a dead horse now.
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