sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Jan 26, 2014 1:09:59 GMT -5
Is our defense even any better now that Smith's out? How much of a liability was he if we aren't much worse defensively with him gone? Anyways if you don't think this team is much improved with Trawick, Smith and Greg then I think you are either lying or brain dead. Just the added depth would have changed the results of 2 games. Sleepy this team is getting blown out. We have all 4 returning starters from last year's team in the game. The guys "filing in" are veteran players and a highly-recruited freshman. This team is hurt but by no means devoid of talent or experience. All five starters for Providence are averaging 30+ minutes due to early season issues. Why are they not dog tired or getting blown out? Well first of all, we only got blown out of the Providence game* and it was the day we lost Josh Smith. And you know what last years team did the day they lost Greg? Got blown out by 30 at HOME to a Pittsburgh team that probably the equivalent of this year's Providence. And yes, we did indeed return 4 starters from that team but lost the number 3 draft pick who was our best defender and offensive player. We NEEDED Greg and/or Smith this season because our only other offensive threats are guards. Adding one other scoring threat, especially at a different position, completely changes the whole offensive. And to add insult to injury, our offense this year was centered around Josh Smith. Do you not realize how much a post threat would open up our offense? Instead of doubling DSR AND Markel, teams would have to double Smith. Do you not understand how much easier it would be to score? Then imagine if Jabril, a good defender, go Caprio's minutes and even stole some of Bowens and Cameron's? That's at least 3 wide open layups taken away. And then had Greg not torn is ACL, that's another defender and an excellent rebound, that is an actual scoring threat. That is 4 out of 5 players on the floor that you would have to guard. 4 of which can also defend pretty well. You really think that doesn't drastically change this team? I don't think we would be world beaters by any means, but we would be significantly better. I mean the last game we played with everyone, not even including Whittington, we blew St Johns out of the water. We could never do that now. I don't think you comprehend how little changes can make drastic differences in basketball, especially college basketball. The difference a lot of times between bad teams and good teams a few plays. And by point with depth was that games like Xavier we lost because we were playing too uptempo for our lack of bench and lost it. We have to a play a certain way to win that we can't play because of our lack of depth as a result of injuries and academics. That's it, not including Kansas who I think would have blown us out regardless that day.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 26, 2014 1:21:49 GMT -5
But i know the issue that was being discussed was leaving the shooters open but im talking about how we vant keep anyone out of the lane has alot to do with fatigue. We can't keep anyone out of the lane because we have bad defensive guards laterally. We played man the whole game tonight so it showed. The guards were equally as bad last year but we played zone probably 90% of the season so you could hide the deficiencies. Markel is averaging 2 more minutes per game this year than he did last year and DSR is at the same minutes per game that Markel was at last year. They shouldn't be so fatigued in JANUARY playing twice a week that they are so tired minutes into the game they can't stay in front of their men. There is obviously a depth problem and no one is denying that but blaming poor defense on fatigue is pretty comical. Have you seen Bowen or Cameron defend someone? DSR and Markel aren't horrible but laterally they aren't quick enough to guard anyone straight up defensively. Hence the zone that was effective the last two years because of our length. This is exactly it. Markel has decent straight line speed but his lateral quickness and explosiveness are below average at this level. Same with DSR except his straight line speed isn't great either. This is why we can't dribble penetrate. Neither guy can breakdown the defense and get to the hole like Chris Wright could for a quick lay up or a kick out to a wide open 3pt shooter. You'll notice with Markel he gets himself in trouble when he penetrates up the middle to the interior of the defense. He's only effective when he runs in a straight line away from the interior to the side and throws up a floater. And when he drives he's only looking to draw the foul or throw up the floater. He rarely is looking to pass or kick it out to a wide open 3pt shooter because he can't break down the defense and suck people in. Same with DSR except when he drives in he's looking to spot up for a shot. Both guys are essentially 2 guard/combo guards and would play even better with a dribble penetration point guard besides them. Neither guy can really dribble penetrate which is why we have to resort to passing the ball around the perimeter and rely on the bigs to set picks and screens to get them open for shots. Our best dribble penetration player is Trawick. He can actually finish and also kick it out. Last year it was probably Otto and Trawick. This is why Joshua was so important because he could suck 2-3 guys in in lieu of dribble penetration and in theory kick it out to DSR, Starks, Cameron. And also why Trawick is important. Really this year's team was a sum of the parts team that needed everyone in order to compete at a high level.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jan 26, 2014 4:42:52 GMT -5
We will have to disagree. We are not as bad as many of the pundits on this board would have us believe. This too shall pass and we will learn from this trying time. Your kidding. This season could get real ugly fast. God forbid we had Syracuse and uconn on the schedule. We might have won 15 games.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jan 26, 2014 4:48:53 GMT -5
No, I am not kidding at all. I thought we played a respectable game considering all of our deficits. Granted, of course, those things are not made mention off. These trying times will test this team and we will get stronger. If we had 4 players who could score in the double digits we would have made this a real close game. Cameron is gaining in confidence; so is Bowen. Hopkins is showing real improvement. I'm just disappointed in Lubick and Ayegba. Generally I am a fan of both.
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HoyaChris
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Post by HoyaChris on Jan 26, 2014 8:20:01 GMT -5
Some thoughts from the Creighton game.
I don't think the issue is physical fatigue any more - it was in the Xavier game - but the pressure on Markel and D'Vauntes to be the offense is clearly fatiguing. Essentially they are in an offense that is supposed to get them good shots but there are about zero good shots when you are playing with three non scorers on the floor and both Markel and D'Vauntes are both double- teamed any time they touch the ball.
I thought our defense last night was quite good. Creighton's season-to-date offensive efficiency was 128 coming into the game which is other-worldly and they could not have been much over 100 for the game. Mikael did an exceptional job on McDermott.
The foul against Reggie on the three point shot took place about 15 feet from me and was beyond absurd.
Both Markel and especially D'Vauntes had an unusually high number of shots go in and out. It has been that kind of year.
Creighton is an awesome place to watch a game. Tickets were going for $800 on the street and the atmosphere inside had a final four feel to it. The local base of fan support is amazing. Of course,I must have had five people say to me "what else are you going to do in Omaha in the winter". They will need that fan support next year, too, because there won't be much left on the roster.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jan 26, 2014 8:56:45 GMT -5
Have not read any of the prior comments but here is my reaction to the Creighton game.
I thought this was the best game the Hoyas have played this year. Very, very active on defense and the offense ran pretty well except the shots were not falling. I take my hat off to the Hoyas for an excellent game against a much better opponent. They gave it everything they had.
As for Creighton, very talented, deep team. Key to their win, other than our sub-par shooting, was the work of their quick guards who had a step on all of ours. I think they could win a few games in the NCAA's this year.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Jan 26, 2014 9:21:55 GMT -5
great guts great defense great HUSTLING FOR FORTY MINUTES OR MORE> just gotta hit SOME bunny layups early vs nova and you never know GO HOYAS proud of the effort . we will see WE WILL SEE>
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dreamhoya
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Post by dreamhoya on Jan 26, 2014 9:29:04 GMT -5
who's the quickest guard JTIII has had? Wright? Who's the best distributor, JTIII has had? Curious what a Matt Causey-type guard would do on this team. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) Never had exceptional guard play or particularly explosive, quick, etc. ones.
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Massholya
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Post by Massholya on Jan 26, 2014 10:05:58 GMT -5
Here's a game plan for how the hoyas win that game. If josh is in there, he scores at least 20. They had no way to stop him. Even Hopkins was able to back them down. basketball is about match ups and he was a huge match up loss for us this game. Without him we had hopper, Moses and Nate bricking away. His absence in this game more than any other made the biggest difference.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Jan 26, 2014 10:06:25 GMT -5
Solid effort by the team and staff. The staff had a good game plan defensively and offensively. They just do not have the talent to execute those plans consistently throughout the game. Watching this proud program this year is like watching a championship boxer fight with cuts over both eyes with one completely shut and the other half way and a broken knuckle on his right hand. It's hard to watch but you have hope that the boxer can stay close and maybe land a knockout punch with that left hand. Listening to Rafferty you can hear the pain he feels for the Hoyas. Despite this being a down year the Hoyas drew a record crowd for Creighton. The chant " we are Georgetown" should have been proudly chanted last night. I saw a severely undermanned team give all that they had with the misfit pieces that they had. Savor this win people in Omaha for relief is on the way next year and given those graduating from the Creighton team, this maybe the last victory you see for a very long time. Come to think of it maybe they know that already and hence the large crowd.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jan 26, 2014 10:53:14 GMT -5
who's the quickest guard JTIII has had? Wright? Who's the best distributor, JTIII has had? Wright
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jan 26, 2014 10:59:45 GMT -5
Unfortunately, this game was lost in the second 10 minutes of the first half. Yep.
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dense
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Post by dense on Jan 26, 2014 11:10:20 GMT -5
Some thoughts from the Creighton game. I don't think the issue is physical fatigue any more - it was in the Xavier game - but the pressure on Markel and D'Vauntes to be the offense is clearly fatiguing. Essentially they are in an offense that is supposed to get them good shots but there are about zero good shots when you are playing with three non scorers on the floor and both Markel and D'Vauntes are both double- teamed any time they touch the ball. I thought our defense last night was quite good. Creighton's season-to-date offensive efficiency was 128 coming into the game which is other-worldly and they could not have been much over 100 for the game. Mikael did an exceptional job on McDermott. The foul against Reggie on the three point shot took place about 15 feet from me and was beyond absurd. Both Markel and especially D'Vauntes had an unusually high number of shots go in and out. It has been that kind of year. Creighton is an awesome place to watch a game. Tickets were going for $800 on the street and the atmosphere inside had a final four feel to it. The local base of fan support is amazing. Of course,I must have had five people say to me "what else are you going to do in Omaha in the winter". They will need that fan support next year, too, because there won't be much left on the roster. This is what I'm saying. Its physically fatiguing to have to play tough d and try to create every possession mentally so it effects you physically.
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joey0403p
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Post by joey0403p on Jan 26, 2014 11:39:18 GMT -5
So chances we win any of the next two? 1%? 5%?
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hoyainspirit
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When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jan 26, 2014 13:37:14 GMT -5
So chances we win any of the next two? 1%? 5%? 31% 'Nova, 19% MSU, according to Pomeroy.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Jan 26, 2014 13:53:32 GMT -5
I thought this was the best game the Smith and Trawick less hoyas have played. Hopkins is developing much better than I ever thought. Cameron is gaining confidence. I have a Good feeling about Monday night. Yes I wish we had Traws back (I can live without Smith) but I think these guys might have turned a corner. A big home crowd could really help. I see a 65-60 Hoya win.
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the_way
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The Illest
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Post by the_way on Jan 26, 2014 14:11:20 GMT -5
who's the quickest guard JTIII has had? Wright? Who's the best distributor, JTIII has had? Wright Best distributor was Jon Wallace. Ray Reed was the quickest guard JTIII had. He stunk offensively,but defensively he could guard on the perimeter. Jeremiah Rivers could guard on the perimeter as well. But again, he stunk offensively. Outside of that, III's guards have always had trouble defending on the perimeter. In the early years we had the trees in Hibbert, Green, and PE Jr to swat away the mistakes once opposing guards got into the lane. Quickness has always been an issue under III. Quick, athletic teams have always given our teams fits. And that is part of the reason we have a lack of success in the NCAA's. Wright was a ball handler. Our only ball handler by default because III didn't recruit too many. Wright's problem was finishing once he drove to the lane. He would get stuffed or come up short. Wright was more of 2 guard trapped in a PG's body. But he had to carry the load as the PG and handle the rock almost exclusively because there were no other options for most of his career. Ashanti Cook was a solid guard. I would argue he was the most versatile guard III had during his time here. Cook could play the 1 or 2 and he could create his own shot off the dribble and finish. Overall, guards have been an issue in the III era. His guards strengths are often negated by their weaknesses. All of the players III has put into the NBA have been forwards/centers. That isn't a coincidence. And recruits notice this.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 26, 2014 15:12:27 GMT -5
We can't keep anyone out of the lane because no one can, at least not consistently. With the new rules and any semblance of offensive help (screens/picks, rotation), it's not hard to get past your man. We do, our opponents do it, every team does it pretty easily. I'm not talking about completely blowing by a guy, but you can pretty easily get even with almost anyone. I thought Markel and DSR did a good job of sticking with their guys, riding their hip and bothering the layup.
And every team compensates with help D. Where it comes from is a matter of gameplanning. The Hoyas' issue is that opponents can help off everyone. Creighton is so good because there's few people you can help off.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 26, 2014 15:15:50 GMT -5
So chances we win any of the next two? 1%? 5%? 31% 'Nova, 19% MSU, according to Pomeroy. Unfortunately, most of that rating is based off the Trawick/Smith Hoyas. Not sure what it would be right now.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jan 26, 2014 15:44:02 GMT -5
Best distributor was Jon Wallace. I love Wallace, but he is not the best distributor under III. Wright finished 6th in assists all time, after missing most of his freshman yr. Plus, his handle was excellent. I never worried about the press with Wright. Just give it to him and get out of the way.
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