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Post by aleutianhoya on Jan 25, 2014 22:21:30 GMT -5
Creighton with 26 FT attempts to 11 for the Hoyas, continuing a season-long discrepancy. It ain't just this season either. But this is a topic that many here only are willing to discuss after disappointing NCAA tourney losses. As soon as the regular season is under the way however any such breaching of the subject leads to "so you think you know how bettet to coach this team than III blah, blah, blah". It is simple. If you don't drive more often to the basket you will get less FT attempts. Refs tend to respect aggression. If you don't make it part of the game plan to post up on a regular basis and shoot enough short range shots, you will get less FT attempts. It doesn't help of course that the head coach will not call out the refs for one-sided calls. That may be the honorable and classy thing to do but if III thinks the refs will reward him for taking the high road he is terribly mistaken. I thought we actually drove a decent amount, MCI. But you need bigs or wing players to do it. It goes back to having three heavy rotation players (all bigs) who are not threats.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Jan 25, 2014 22:22:11 GMT -5
I know they wouldn't but the point still holds. Why do we recruit these kids and then put them in a position to transfer? We clearly have two more potentially on the way and that just puts us further behind in building a cohesive unit and more importantly, quality depth. I think it is a safe assumption that Vee transferred because of role, etc., and I'll never understand III's lack of willingness to play him entirely. But does anyone know why Benimon left? The dude was getting over 10 minutes a game for 32 games even though he wasn't very good. He got more minutes than Markel did that year! He was a legit part of the rotation, behind Hollis, Henry and Vaughn. How many more minutes would you have fed to Benimon? Even Vee got about 5 minutes per game (across 27 games). Furthermore, did Vee's/Benimon's transfers really hurt? The next year Jabril, Markel, Greg and Jason Clark made for a nice rotation, and last year we weren't awful at guard, either. I'm sure Vee could've helped, but our issues this year are lack of development, injury, academics, early entry and inability to close on some big men. Not transfers. Historically, the transfers that have left and performed well have almost always been ones that came from rotation players: Macklin, Egerson, Benimon. Sanford is the lone exception, unless I am forgetting someone. Wouldn't we not have had Otto had Benimon stayed?
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jan 25, 2014 22:22:18 GMT -5
We're just missing too many players. Having either Smith or Trawick in this game would have kept it much closer. Having both would have made it a pick'em game. Smith, Trawick, and Whittington and we win easily. Bottom line -- this team right now is nowhere near what JTIII expected. This would happen to any team in college basketball if that much talent was lost. The one thing I do like is that down by 12 or so with around a minute left our guys are STILL diving into the stands to get a steal. I can live with that kind of effort the rest of the season. Can't argue with this.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jan 25, 2014 22:22:45 GMT -5
I know they wouldn't but the point still holds. Why do we recruit these kids and then put them in a position to transfer? We clearly have two more potentially on the way and that just puts us further behind in building a cohesive unit and more importantly, quality depth. I think it is a safe assumption that Vee transferred because of role, etc., and I'll never understand III's lack of willingness to play him entirely. But does anyone know why Benimon left? The dude was getting over 10 minutes a game for 32 games even though he wasn't very good. He got more minutes than Markel did that year! He was a legit part of the rotation, behind Hollis, Henry and Vaughn. How many more minutes would you have fed to Benimon? Even Vee got about 5 minutes per game (across 27 games). Furthermore, did Vee's/Benimon's transfers really hurt? The next year Jabril, Markel, Greg and Jason Clark made for a nice rotation, and last year we weren't awful at guard, either. I'm sure Vee could've helped, but our issues this year are lack of development, injury, academics, early entry and inability to close on some big men. Not transfers. Historically, the transfers that have left and performed well have almost always been ones that came from rotation players: Macklin, Egerson, Benimon. Sanford is the lone exception, unless I am forgetting someone. Jerrell Benimon got recruited over...JTIII brought in Otto Porter and Greg Whittington... They were going to cut into Jerrelle Benimon's minutes.. Good for him that he left...his offense is 100% better than when he was here...so is Vee Sanford's They have both improved their offensive game since leaving so God Bless them.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Jan 25, 2014 22:25:13 GMT -5
Tough to watch the Hoyas play knowing they are completely over-matched. Anyone who bothers to watch the Hoyas can tell right away the lack of any frontcourt scoring threat leaves the offense so off-balance and easy to defend. I feel bad for Markel, as a senior that has improved each season, this has to be tough to take. Yeah, I feel bad for Starks too. I don't think he ever would have imagined he wouldn't get a last chance to make the tourney. He deserves it. At least it's looking pretty clear he will make first team BE.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jan 25, 2014 22:27:09 GMT -5
We need to recruit bigs who can finish around the rim...Nate and Moses struggled tonight. It is more than that, my man. If the Hoyas get those players they need to put those guys in a position to be more of a scoring threat in the paint rather than having them play at least half of their offensive possessions around the free throw line. And I was saying this even during the days of Hibbert and Monroe. That's why I was happy to see how Josh was being used during the first weeks of the season. It showed me III was at least willing to go that route. This true...Hopper, Moses, Lubick, Bowen.. All hang around the 3pt line screening... I think that part of the offense needs to be changed. Since Sims... Our front court play is either dismal or inconsistent More disappointed in Nate Lubick's development 1. 4 year starter 2. All 4 years getting well over 20 mins a game. 3. No real offensive game at all... 4. How far does he being a glue guy get you?? 5. Shaky defensively 6. He can rebound decently though
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Jan 25, 2014 22:29:11 GMT -5
People need to understand something...yea we have Trawick and Smith here...how good are we really They were here and we were not world beaters... Josh Smtih is a defensive liability and cannot run the court Jabril Trawick cannot jump shoot... We would still have offensive issues Agreed. I'll add Hall of Famer Greg Whittington and his amazing 45-30-61 shooting line to that list. Greg would help on D but on offense, he was as inconsistent as the rest. Oh yes, I know he would have "developed" just like the rest of our guys apparently. I think we have to face facts here, the offense in the post-Roy JTIII-recruiting era has really been excellent only in Greg's final year. Otherwise we're not even close to being an efficient offensive team. Whether it's talent, development, or retention can be debated. The scarier part is the rule change is making our defense less effective as well. Put those together and you get... well what you see now unless something changes.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 25, 2014 22:30:04 GMT -5
Reggie continues to gain more confidence. Nobody else can shoot. An outside shot by a bad shooter is - a bad shot. If you are a perimeter player you need to take at least one or two outside shots a game...just to keep the defense honest. A few will go in. Especially when they are playing off you 5 feet. Bowen, for example, can't shoot from the perimeter. A guy who shoots less than 25% gets 1 a game. If he makes, he gets a couple more. If he misses - well, we do not have any leeway on offense, can't afford to have a non-shooter wasting possessions(of course our problem is that we have plenty of other ways to waste them.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jan 25, 2014 22:30:44 GMT -5
1. I thought, overall, the defensive scheme and effort was excellent. Great job on McDermott. Lost the shooters a few times and our personnel is prone to that. But I liked the scheme. Good point. My one counter would be that offensive aggression is in part instilled in you by the coach. Look we've seen this pass-the-buck style on the court even with III's better teams. It is as if everyone is more worried about taking the best shot possible, thereby passing up on early shots and tossing the ball around until one of the two better scorers actually gets around to hoisting one up. There is no confidence. Heck, the baseline was open for Bowen almost all game long but he seemed to have zero confidence to make an aggressive move. And that explains the dilemma of Hopkins in a nutshell. Consistency.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jan 25, 2014 22:34:22 GMT -5
It ain't just this season either. But this is a topic that many here only are willing to discuss after disappointing NCAA tourney losses. As soon as the regular season is under the way however any such breaching of the subject leads to "so you think you know how bettet to coach this team than III blah, blah, blah". It is simple. If you don't drive more often to the basket you will get less FT attempts. Refs tend to respect aggression. If you don't make it part of the game plan to post up on a regular basis and shoot enough short range shots, you will get less FT attempts. It doesn't help of course that the head coach will not call out the refs for one-sided calls. That may be the honorable and classy thing to do but if III thinks the refs will reward him for taking the high road he is terribly mistaken. I thought we actually drove a decent amount, MCI. But you need bigs or wing players to do it. It goes back to having three heavy rotation players (all bigs) who are not threats. True but we didn't post up enough when we had Roy and he was hitting some godly like fg percentage. We didn't post up enough nearly as much as we should when we had G. Monroe either. Those guys spent too many moments near the FT line with their backs to to the basket as they waited to hand off the ball to a teammate.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jan 25, 2014 22:35:28 GMT -5
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Jan 25, 2014 22:36:03 GMT -5
Is our defense even any better now that Smith's out? How much of a liability was he if we aren't much better defensively with him gone?
Anyways if you don't think this team is much improved with Trawick, Smith and Greg then I think you are either lying or brain dead. Just the added depth would have changed the results of 2 games.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Jan 25, 2014 22:36:11 GMT -5
Statistically, we played Creighton even at FGs and 3s, but as has been mentioned, we lost at FT line, even though we shot over 80%. Besides DSR, Markel, and Hopkins, we got no offense. We did hold McDermott lower than his average. I am afraid the team right now feels as if it will just go through the motions for the rest of the year. I hope not. We need to win one game one of these days. ![:'(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/cry.png)
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Post by HometownHoya on Jan 25, 2014 22:36:48 GMT -5
If you are a perimeter player you need to take at least one or two outside shots a game...just to keep the defense honest. A few will go in. Especially when they are playing off you 5 feet. Bowen, for example, can't shoot from the perimeter. A guy who shoots less than 25% gets 1 a game. If he makes, he gets a couple more. If he misses - well, we do not have any leeway on offense, can't afford to have a non-shooter wasting possessions(of course our problem is that we have plenty of other ways to waste them. I understand what you're saying but I'd rather have him at least take that 1 per game. If he misses, oh well, if he makes try a few more, maybe his shot will be on. I never played Div 1 basketball but in Yates and even in HS basketball, as a stretch 4, I had games where I was more on from outside so coaches would urge me to take at least one per game. You're last sentence is the key to my point, we are wasting possessions in so many ways, why not add one other that will help open up the inside if it potentially goes in.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jan 25, 2014 22:37:09 GMT -5
Tough to watch the Hoyas play knowing they are completely over-matched. Anyone who bothers to watch the Hoyas can tell right away the lack of any frontcourt scoring threat leaves the offense so off-balance and easy to defend. I feel bad for Markel, as a senior that has improved each season, this has to be tough to take. Yeah, I feel bad for Starks too. I don't think he ever would have imagined he wouldn't get a last chance to make the tourney. He deserves it. At least it's looking pretty clear he will make first team BE. You sure about that? He has been the second best Hoya this season after DSR. Both won't make First Team BE if the Hoyas are in the bottom half of the conference. Neither could make it if the team doesn't get a few more wins.
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Jan 25, 2014 22:37:46 GMT -5
I thought this was one of our best games of the year. They played a more talented Creighton team basically even other than their outburst in the first half. We went down shooting and playing energetic defense. Other than Lubick who just continues to regress with dumb play on defense and no offense.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jan 25, 2014 22:38:54 GMT -5
People need to understand something...yea we have Trawick and Smith here...how good are we really They were here and we were not world beaters... Josh Smtih is a defensive liability and cannot run the court Jabril Trawick cannot jump shoot... We would still have offensive issues Agreed. I'll add Hall of Famer Greg Whittington and his amazing 45-30-61 shooting line to that list. Greg would help on D but on offense, he was as inconsistent as the rest. Oh yes, I know he would have "developed" just like the rest of our guys apparently. I think we have to face facts here, the offense in the post-Roy JTIII-recruiting era has really been excellent only in Greg's final year. Otherwise we're not even close to being an efficient offensive team. Whether it's talent, development, or retention can be debated. The scarier part is the rule change is making our defense less effective as well. Put those together and you get... well what you see now unless something changes. All these guys have things that need to be worked on...
1. Lubick 2. Moses 3. Hopper 4. Bowen 5. Trawick 6. Cameron Tonight all these players passed up open shots way way too passive..(they pretty much caught the ball and passed more times than not)1. Lubick 2. Cameron 3. Bowen 4. Moses At least 3 too many players to be effective to win...You have to keep the defense honest.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jan 25, 2014 22:42:38 GMT -5
1. I thought, overall, the defensive scheme and effort was excellent. Great job on McDermott. Lost the shooters a few times and our personnel is prone to that. But I liked the scheme. Good point. My one counter would be that offensive aggression is in part instilled in you by the coach. Look we've seen this pass-the-buck style on the court even with III's better teams. It is as if everyone is more worried about taking the best shot possible, thereby passing up on early shots and tossing the ball around until one of the two better scorers actually gets around to hoisting one up. There is no confidence. Heck, the baseline was open for Bowen almost all game long but he seemed to have zero confidence to make an aggressive move. And that explains the dilemma of Hopkins in a nutshell. Consistency. Dont know what is going on with this...a week ago saturday he had scored at 9pts in 3 straight games... Since Monday and tonight, he is a shell of himself... Looks like his confidence is shot... Overly thinks about taking the jump shot and way too passive to take it to the hole
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dense
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Post by dense on Jan 25, 2014 22:44:47 GMT -5
We will have to disagree. We are not as bad as many of the pundits on this board would have us believe. This too shall pass and we will learn from this trying time. Agree totally
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Jan 25, 2014 22:45:02 GMT -5
Is our defense even any better now that Smith's out? How much of a liability was he if we aren't much worse defensively with him gone? Anyways if you don't think this team is much improved with Trawick, Smith and Greg then I think you are either lying or brain dead. Just the added depth would have changed the results of 2 games. Sleepy this team is getting blown out. We have all 4 returning starters from last year's team in the game. The guys "filing in" are veteran players and a highly-recruited freshman. This team is hurt but by no means devoid of talent or experience. All five starters for Providence are averaging 30+ minutes due to early season issues. Why are they not dog tired or getting blown out?
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