Cambridge
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Canes Pugnaces
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Post by Cambridge on Dec 10, 2015 10:09:54 GMT -5
My point is I said it from the start - not sure why you are harping on "hindsight." There were signs that Smith would turn out exactly as embarrassingly as he did. My initial statement was that Josh Smith - from the time we brought him in to the moment he bolted from school without finishing any of his classes after the Utah game buzzer sounded - was one of the great mistakes of the JT3 era. That's my opinion. Embarassingly? Wow. I could get on board with disappointing, but that's a bridge too far. Maybe he didn't play up to his potential. Maybe he didn't hold up his end in the classroom. But, he put up some great games for the Hoyas, he caused no scandal, and there were no reports that he wasn't putting in the effort in practice or otherwise while with the team. |
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Dec 10, 2015 11:41:15 GMT -5
On balance, I think most reasonable people would conclude that the Josh Smith gamble did not pay off. However, I don't think he brought embarrassment to the school. I hadn't heard the classroom thing, but it wasn't the first time and he won't be the last.
You just hope no consequences ever arise to the way we got him there and eligible to play...that gets into the public embarrassment level...
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swhoya
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Post by swhoya on Dec 10, 2015 12:03:38 GMT -5
I have a theory--and I admit it is a total complete pulling it out of my you-know-what theory--that Josh Smith might have been the best thing to happen to this year's team, vis a vis Hayes' hook shot.
Putting aside whether Hayes should have gotten more of Hops or Smith's minutes last year (I'm going to trust that he just wasn't there yet, but you believe whatever floats your boat since none of us actually know), it's important to remember that Hayes was having to go up daily against a guy who was without question heavier and stronger than he was. So if you're not able to muscle your way to the basket, what do you do?
You learn to shoot over him. You don't want to square up to the basket from 2-3 feet away, and while some on this board probably don't agree, Smith did have pretty fast hands. So I have to believe that Hayes spent two years going up against Smith and the only offensive weapon available to him would have been the hook shot. Hayes wouldn't have been able to drop step against him, Smith was too wide to move around. The best thing Hayes could have done against a guy with Smith's bulk was a quick hook shot that would have been impossible for Smith to block. And I"m sure Hayes got accustomed to body contact while shooting it as well and learned to adjust.
I'm probably totally wrong. But he's just so comfortable (and is so quick) with that shot that it's the only thing that makes sense to me. Get the ball and get the one shot off quickly before Smith smothers you. And repeat.
So there. I'm staking a claim that, whatever he did in season the last two years, Smith was a huge benefit to this year's team (no pun intended).
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rockhoya
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Dec 10, 2015 12:20:35 GMT -5
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Post by rockhoya on Dec 10, 2015 12:20:35 GMT -5
I have a theory--and I admit it is a total complete pulling it out of my you-know-what theory--that Josh Smith might have been the best thing to happen to this year's team, vis a vis Hayes' hook shot. Putting aside whether Hayes should have gotten more of Hops or Smith's minutes last year (I'm going to trust that he just wasn't there yet, but you believe whatever floats your boat since none of us actually know), it's important to remember that Hayes was having to go up daily against a guy who was without question heavier and stronger than he was. So if you're not able to muscle your way to the basket, what do you do? You learn to shoot over him. You don't want to square up to the basket from 2-3 feet away, and while some on this board probably don't agree, Smith did have pretty fast hands. So I have to believe that Hayes spent two years going up against Smith and the only offensive weapon available to him would have been the hook shot. Hayes wouldn't have been able to drop step against him, Smith was too wide to move around. The best thing Hayes could have done against a guy with Smith's bulk was a quick hook shot that would have been impossible for Smith to block. And I"m sure Hayes got accustomed to body contact while shooting it as well and learned to adjust. I'm probably totally wrong. But he's just so comfortable (and is so quick) with that shot that it's the only thing that makes sense to me. Get the ball and get the one shot off quickly before Smith smothers you. And repeat. So there. I'm staking a claim that, whatever he did in season the last two years, Smith was a huge benefit to this year's team (no pun intended). No, you're right. Because he wasn't a big man till like 2010 and even then was hobbled with growing injuries/pains. He's now finally healthier and stronger than he's ever been and it's showing. Thanks for seeing the bigger picture. |
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Post by lancasterhoyafan on Dec 10, 2015 12:32:05 GMT -5
I have a theory--and I admit it is a total complete pulling it out of my you-know-what theory--that Josh Smith might have been the best thing to happen to this year's team, vis a vis Hayes' hook shot. Putting aside whether Hayes should have gotten more of Hops or Smith's minutes last year (I'm going to trust that he just wasn't there yet, but you believe whatever floats your boat since none of us actually know), it's important to remember that Hayes was having to go up daily against a guy who was without question heavier and stronger than he was. So if you're not able to muscle your way to the basket, what do you do? You learn to shoot over him. You don't want to square up to the basket from 2-3 feet away, and while some on this board probably don't agree, Smith did have pretty fast hands. So I have to believe that Hayes spent two years going up against Smith and the only offensive weapon available to him would have been the hook shot. Hayes wouldn't have been able to drop step against him, Smith was too wide to move around. The best thing Hayes could have done against a guy with Smith's bulk was a quick hook shot that would have been impossible for Smith to block. And I"m sure Hayes got accustomed to body contact while shooting it as well and learned to adjust. I'm probably totally wrong. But he's just so comfortable (and is so quick) with that shot that it's the only thing that makes sense to me. Get the ball and get the one shot off quickly before Smith smothers you. And repeat. So there. I'm staking a claim that, whatever he did in season the last two years, Smith was a huge benefit to this year's team (no pun intended). No, you're right. Because he wasn't a big man till like 2010 and even then was hobbled with growing injuries/pains. He's now finally healthier and stronger than he's ever been and it's showing. Thanks for seeing the bigger picture. Interesting take. Tough to argue this. Bradley looks really smooth and confident with his hook. That being said, he needs to finish stronger and given the opportunity, dunk that ish hard. |
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guru
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Post by guru on Dec 10, 2015 12:58:12 GMT -5
My point is I said it from the start - not sure why you are harping on "hindsight." There were signs that Smith would turn out exactly as embarrassingly as he did. My initial statement was that Josh Smith - from the time we brought him in to the moment he bolted from school without finishing any of his classes after the Utah game buzzer sounded - was one of the great mistakes of the JT3 era. That's my opinion. Embarassingly? Wow. I could get on board with disappointing, but that's a bridge too far. Maybe he didn't play up to his potential. Maybe he didn't hold up his end in the classroom. But, he put up some great games for the Hoyas, he caused no scandal, and there were no reports that he wasn't putting in the effort in practice or otherwise while with the team. I believe that a player leaving school immediately after the season concludes, not even bothering to show up for the team's annual banquet (and thereby disrepecting his coaches, teammates, supporters and university in one fell swoop) is embarrassing behavior. When/if it happens at one of our rival schools, we would rightly ridicule that program. It's fine that others don't agree with me on this. I just found his behavior pretty reprehensible and not worth the few "great games" he put up for the basketball team. |
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Dec 10, 2015 13:08:04 GMT -5
Embarassingly? Wow. I could get on board with disappointing, but that's a bridge too far. Maybe he didn't play up to his potential. Maybe he didn't hold up his end in the classroom. But, he put up some great games for the Hoyas, he caused no scandal, and there were no reports that he wasn't putting in the effort in practice or otherwise while with the team. I believe that a player leaving school immediately after the season concludes, not even bothering to show up for the team's annual banquet (and thereby disrepecting his coaches, teammates, supporters and university in one fell swoop) is embarrassing behavior. When/if it happens at one of our rival schools, we would rightly ridicule that program. It's fine that others don't agree with me on this. I just found his behavior pretty reprehensible and not worth the few "great games" he put up for the basketball team. Reprehensible? You must have a different definition of that word than the rest of the English speaking world. Maybe you're using the Merriam-Webster Moral High Horse Dictionary (2nd Ed.)? |
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guru
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Post by guru on Dec 10, 2015 13:14:25 GMT -5
I believe that a player leaving school immediately after the season concludes, not even bothering to show up for the team's annual banquet (and thereby disrepecting his coaches, teammates, supporters and university in one fell swoop) is embarrassing behavior. When/if it happens at one of our rival schools, we would rightly ridicule that program. It's fine that others don't agree with me on this. I just found his behavior pretty reprehensible and not worth the few "great games" he put up for the basketball team. Reprehensible? You must have a different definition of that word than the rest of the English speaking world. Maybe you're using the Merriam-Webster Moral High Horse Dictionary (2nd Ed.)? Nope. Just feel strongly about this situation. You know about feeling strongly about things, correct? It's like how you feel strongly about writing needless, sarcastic, unfunny replies to everything posted on this board. |
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Post by lancasterhoyafan on Dec 10, 2015 13:18:14 GMT -5
Looks like UNCW has some size on their roster. Move those feet Bradley and establish position.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 10, 2015 13:19:37 GMT -5
Embarassingly? Wow. I could get on board with disappointing, but that's a bridge too far. Maybe he didn't play up to his potential. Maybe he didn't hold up his end in the classroom. But, he put up some great games for the Hoyas, he caused no scandal, and there were no reports that he wasn't putting in the effort in practice or otherwise while with the team. I believe that a player leaving school immediately after the season concludes, not even bothering to show up for the team's annual banquet (and thereby disrepecting his coaches, teammates, supporters and university in one fell swoop) is embarrassing behavior. When/if it happens at one of our rival schools, we would rightly ridicule that program. It's fine that others don't agree with me on this. I just found his behavior pretty reprehensible and not worth the few "great games" he put up for the basketball team. Guru just doesn't like nice fat kids. Greg Whittington never received this amount of scorn from Guru. |
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This Just In
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Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Dec 10, 2015 13:36:13 GMT -5
On balance, I think most reasonable people would conclude that the Josh Smith gamble did not pay off. However, I don't think he brought embarrassment to the school. I hadn't heard the classroom thing, but it wasn't the first time and he won't be the last. You just hope no consequences ever arise to the way we got him there and eligible to play...that gets into the public embarrassment level... The 2 years of Josh Smith as a starting Center was underwhelming: 1. Academic suspension 2. 0 Big East Regular Season Championships 3. 0 Big East Tournament Championships nor runner-up 4. 1 NIT win (0 mins of contribution) 5. 1 NCAA win (7 mins of contribution) The only worst recent 2 year Center run was Greg Monroe's: 1. 0 Big East Regular Season Championships 2. 0 Big East Tournament Championships (though did make runner-up) 3. 0 NIT wins 4. 0 NCAA wins The "0" post season wins is the most troubling as they were the most talented team on paper since the 2007 team and more heralded as that team had 3 McDonald All-American's in the starting 5 |
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
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Post by lichoya68 on Dec 10, 2015 13:59:55 GMT -5
bradely YUP will be much more meanier hes GOT IT NOW hoooooker in the lane left AND righty too. and MAKE FOUL SHOTS
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2015 14:51:46 GMT -5
Welp.... Love the way hes playing right now
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Post by michaeldm9 on Dec 10, 2015 15:13:23 GMT -5
On balance, I think most reasonable people would conclude that the Josh Smith gamble did not pay off. However, I don't think he brought embarrassment to the school. I hadn't heard the classroom thing, but it wasn't the first time and he won't be the last. You just hope no consequences ever arise to the way we got him there and eligible to play...that gets into the public embarrassment level... The 2 years of Josh Smith as a starting Center was underwhelming: 1. Academic suspension 2. 0 Big East Regular Season Championships 3. 0 Big East Tournament Championships nor runner-up 4. 1 NIT win (0 mins of contribution) 5. 1 NCAA win (7 mins of contribution) The only worst recent 2 year Center run was Greg Monroe's: 1. 0 Big East Regular Season Championships 2. 0 Big East Tournament Championships (though did make runner-up) 3. 0 NIT wins 4. 0 NCAA wins The "0" post season wins is the most troubling as they were the most talented team on paper since the 2007 team and more heralded as that team had 3 McDonald All-American's in the starting 5 By no means do you tag Greg Monroe's 2 year outcome to his short coming. Not at all. Bad analogy. |
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Dec 10, 2015 15:48:31 GMT -5
Like, I'm not even mad at this thread right now. Now that 2010 is in play, we're one step closer to Jerrelle Benimon entering the conversation.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Dec 10, 2015 16:51:05 GMT -5
Gharun Hester and Dean Berry got quality minutes not so long ago...
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Post by goyahoya69 on Dec 10, 2015 17:50:56 GMT -5
i dont understand you guys. why does it have to be that hayes sucked before senior year or he was this good the whole time/jtiii is stupid for not playing him? couldn't it be that he was pretty alright last year but smith and hopkins were just better? and that he worked extra hard this offseason and is now reaping the rewards? and if that is the case, what's to argue about? it means that jtiii consistently played the best big men his roster had to offer.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 10, 2015 19:13:32 GMT -5
The 2 years of Josh Smith as a starting Center was underwhelming: 1. Academic suspension 2. 0 Big East Regular Season Championships 3. 0 Big East Tournament Championships nor runner-up 4. 1 NIT win (0 mins of contribution) 5. 1 NCAA win (7 mins of contribution) The only worst recent 2 year Center run was Greg Monroe's: 1. 0 Big East Regular Season Championships 2. 0 Big East Tournament Championships (though did make runner-up) 3. 0 NIT wins 4. 0 NCAA wins The "0" post season wins is the most troubling as they were the most talented team on paper since the 2007 team and more heralded as that team had 3 McDonald All-American's in the starting 5 Sorry, ThisJustIn, but this is just a nonsensical way of comparing teams and players. First of all, Greg Monroe was a substantially better center in college than Josh Smith, and given that Monroe has had several successful NBA seasons and Smith is just struggling to get into the league in any capacity, I would say that further confirms that it's not even close. But...we already knew that. I doubt there would be much debate about that. You're right that the 2010 team was a very good team (great offensively, not good defensively), and arguably 2009 should have been better than they performed, but you can't call team performance a "center run." |
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Dec 10, 2015 19:42:21 GMT -5
Hopefully the discussions in this thread will turn to Bradley this year.
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wnyhoya
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Post by wnyhoya on Dec 10, 2015 20:12:46 GMT -5
Let's talk about what Bradley current means to this team. I think he gives us the first back to the basket presence we've had since Roy. Greg could score some back to the basket but I remembering him facing up a lot mid post and using his quickness to beat guys mostly. BJ is a true GTown center and his development is exactly why we are Big Man U. His emergence allows us to score at all three levels on offense and is yet another reason why this team could be special. Some work to do defensively but damn he's good and he's gonna make an NBA roster next year if he keeps this up. Very excited to see if he can keep this up consistently night in and night out
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