Georgetown - Northeastern 11/21/13 Game Discussion

[Eurostar]

Nate's turnover at the end of the game was not really his fault. He's at the top of the zone with Starks. They pass the ball back and forth about 5x as the shot clock is winding down. Nate finally makes a move to dribble towards the middle of the zone. Starks just stands there. Nate gets double teamed and tries to pass it back to Starks but the pass gets intercepted.

Here are the problems with that play:
1) Nate should not be at the top of the zone trying to make decisions and dribble penetrate. He should be down low or flashing to the foul line
2) Starks should not pass the ball back to Nate 3x. He is our senior point guard leader. He should not have to wait for Nate to make a move with the ball. He should be the one making something happen.
3) Starks should have moved in behind Nate as he made a drive to the basket. He would have been open for a 3. Instead he just stood there and watched.

We need better play out of our best player (Starks) to win games. If he performs like that all year, its going to be rough.
We also need someone to step up and be the middle guy in the zone offense... because EVERYONE is going to zone us. Someone big who can pass and make a move to the basket. We don't have that guy yet, but in the meantime it should be Trawick. Cameron should try a bit as well. Even Lubick - at least he is a good passer out of the high post.

[hoyas2006]

So sick and tired of hearing how good of a passing big man Lubick is. He is horrible. He is good for 5 turnovers a game (especially off in bounds passes). For every 1 good play, there are 4 bad ones. Frustrating to say the least

[prhoya]

Nov 22, 2013 6:50:08 GMT -5 hoyas2006 said:

So sick and tired of hearing how good of a passing big man Lubick is. He is horrible. He is good for 5 turnovers a game (especially off in bounds passes). For every 1 good play, there are 4 bad ones. Frustrating to say the least

Agree. It happened again yesterday.

[EasyEd]

More good news: Hoyas are undefeated in continental U.S.

[johnnysnowplow]

Nov 21, 2013 23:41:09 GMT -5 hoyatables said:

Seriously choosing not to be worried (easy to say because I have missed all three games so far). Last time we lost to a CAA-level team early in the season (as well as to Oregon, I might add)? 2006-2007.

This is the second time someone has mentioned this coincidence. Which is really all it is, a coincidence. It's not a foreshadowing of things to come. This team couldn't hold the 07 teams' jocks. Expecting them to turn things around to the extent that the Final Four team did is quite delusional.

[bowhoya]

Clearly, we had the talent to win yesterday. We had a 14 point lead stating the game. But, JTIII did not make the needed half-time adjustments. The Northeastern coach made half-time adjustments to counter our first half game plan. JTIII needed to counter the NE moves. CHANGES MUST BE MADE DURING THE GAME! Not after the loss!

[michaelgrahamfan]

Is it next year yet? I know that we are spoiled but this is my best way of getting through winter.

[NCHoya]

I think too much is being made of the adjustments JT3 should have been making. The team was winning 40-26, up to that point was that a byproduct of coaching or players playing well.

At some point the players need to win the game against teams like Northeastern. Coaching shows more during games against decent competition, but when you lose to Northeastern, it usually comes down to player performance which the coach can somewhat influence, but not much more. This game is on the players, because they had the obvious physical advantage to flat-out take over the game.

[Filo]

Nov 22, 2013 8:58:21 GMT -5 johnnysnowplow said:

Nov 21, 2013 23:41:09 GMT -5 hoyatables said:

Seriously choosing not to be worried (easy to say because I have missed all three games so far). Last time we lost to a CAA-level team early in the season (as well as to Oregon, I might add)? 2006-2007.

This is the second time someone has mentioned this coincidence. Which is really all it is, a coincidence. It's not a foreshadowing of things to come. This team couldn't hold the 07 teams' jocks. Expecting them to turn things around to the extent that the Final Four team did is quite delusional.

Damn. Really?

Thanks for the clarification. I almost booked a trip to the Final Four based on the "CAA-loss theory." Fortunately, your cogent analysis came just in the nick of time. You probably just saved me some serious coin.

[Dhall]

Nov 22, 2013 10:04:52 GMT -5 NCHoya said:

I think too much is being made of the adjustments JT3 should have been making. The team was winning 40-26, up to that point was that a byproduct of coaching or players playing well.

At some point the players need to win the game against teams like Northeastern. Coaching shows more during games against decent competition, but when you lose to Northeastern, it usually comes down to player performance which the coach can somewhat influence, but not much more. This game is on the players, because they had the obvious physical advantage to flat-out take over the game.

I don't blame the coach and don't mean to pick on you, but this year's edition of the Hoyas does not have a physical advantage against most other teams. Yes, our players may be taller and weigh more. But we are very unathletic - slow and poor leapers other than Bowen and one or two other guys - and possibly out of shape.

The tremendous amount of fouling that we have done in the three games is a sign of being outmatched physically. If you can't keep up with the other guy, you can't jump higher than him, etc., then you end up fouling. It is a fallacy, repeated in the Northeastern coach's comment, that just because we are tall and big that we are better physically.

[calhoya]

Nov 22, 2013 10:04:52 GMT -5 NCHoya said:

I think too much is being made of the adjustments JT3 should have been making. The team was winning 40-26, up to that point was that a byproduct of coaching or players playing well.

At some point the players need to win the game against teams like Northeastern. Coaching shows more during games against decent competition, but when you lose to Northeastern, it usually comes down to player performance which the coach can somewhat influence, but not much more. This game is on the players, because they had the obvious physical advantage to flat-out take over the game.

I think that is right to a great extent. The problem yesterday was execution more than the system. No adjustment will fix the missed layups, the poor passes and the lack of intensity. I refuse to overthink this. Smith is going to be what we have seen so far--a player who will be up and down all year. Nothwithstanding the annointing of Smith as a superstar by the announcers in Korea, the kid is talented but out of shape, slow and unable to play effective defense. That will improve over time--but not overnight. What can improve is the effort and composure. I was stunned by the fact that in the last five minutes of the game yesterday there were several moments of apparent panic--by the Hoya and not the team playing under the spotlight for the first time. There is no superstar this season. This season will go as far as Starks, Lubick, Trawick and DSR can take it. The others are supporting players, some of whom have flashed (Hopkins, Cameron and Bowen) but none of whom are going to be the determinants of the outcomes of any games. Smith can be icing on the cake but he lacks the ability at this time to carry this team in the manner that Porter did last year.

[EtomicB]

Nov 22, 2013 10:04:52 GMT -5 NCHoya said:

I think too much is being made of the adjustments JT3 should have been making. The team was winning 40-26, up to that point was that a byproduct of coaching or players playing well.

At some point the players need to win the game against teams like Northeastern. Coaching shows more during games against decent competition, but when you lose to Northeastern, it usually comes down to player performance which the coach can somewhat influence, but not much more. This game is on the players, because they had the obvious physical advantage to flat-out take over the game.

@ 54-53 DSR takes a horrible/long 3pt shot that clangs off the rim & out of bounds. That leads into a tv timeout, the very next possession Starks takes a horrible/long 3pt shot.. Isn't that on coaching NC?

The team continually made short passes around the perimeter of the D all 2nd half, shouldn't the staff direct them on where possible openings are?

I believe these are the games coaching matters the most, games where the team may think they all they have to do is show up & win..

[NCHoya]

Nov 22, 2013 10:43:23 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

Nov 22, 2013 10:04:52 GMT -5 NCHoya said:

I think too much is being made of the adjustments JT3 should have been making. The team was winning 40-26, up to that point was that a byproduct of coaching or players playing well.

At some point the players need to win the game against teams like Northeastern. Coaching shows more during games against decent competition, but when you lose to Northeastern, it usually comes down to player performance which the coach can somewhat influence, but not much more. This game is on the players, because they had the obvious physical advantage to flat-out take over the game.

@ 54-53 DSR takes a horrible/long 3pt shot that clangs off the rim & out of bounds. That leads into a tv timeout, the very next possession Starks takes a horrible/long 3pt shot.. Isn't that on coaching NC?

The team continually made short passes around the perimeter of the D all 2nd half, shouldn't the staff direct them on where possible openings are?

I believe these are the games coaching matters the most, games where the team may think they all they have to do is show up & win..

Your last point is a good one if the team came out and was terrible from the start. Up 40-26, I am not willing to say they were unprepared to play this game. Players need to finish games, coaches can guide, but players need to make plays. Do you honestly beleive that III left each timeout saying, "hey, jack up another contested three, seems to be working or pass the ball around the perimeter guys until the shot clock runs out."


I think we are just going to disagree on this one. Georgetown should be able to win that game on skill and talent differential alone. Let's see what happens today, this game will tell us all we need to know about this team and season.

[dreamhoya]

Couple points. PR you are right... Also, I've been saying that for 3 years: WHY is Nate the in bounds passer? He is not good at it. This team should run a LOT. It's not built to be half court. There's no Otto to do mid range shooting; there are no rebounders except Bowen. Right now. And he doesn't start.

[EtomicB]

Nov 22, 2013 11:10:02 GMT -5 NCHoya said:

Nov 22, 2013 10:43:23 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

@ 54-53 DSR takes a horrible/long 3pt shot that clangs off the rim & out of bounds. That leads into a tv timeout, the very next possession Starks takes a horrible/long 3pt shot.. Isn't that on coaching NC?

The team continually made short passes around the perimeter of the D all 2nd half, shouldn't the staff direct them on where possible openings are?

I believe these are the games coaching matters the most, games where the team may think they all they have to do is show up & win..

Your last point is a good one if the team came out and was terrible from the start. Up 40-26, I am not willing to say they were unprepared to play this game. Players need to finish games, coaches can guide, but players need to make plays. Do you honestly beleive that III left each timeout saying, "hey, jack up another contested three, seems to be working or pass the ball around the perimeter guys until the shot clock runs out."


I think we are just going to disagree on this one. Georgetown should be able to win that game on skill and talent differential alone. Let's see what happens today, this game will tell us all we need to know about this team and season.

Of course I don't but we have to agree that whatever is being said in the huddle isn't being heard or even worse ignored. Somewhere there's a disconnect happening..

Another place his coaching bothered me is @ 57.6 seconds left down 60-56 with N'eastern taking the ball out of bounds on the baseline. G'town goes into its normal zone on out of bounds plays and allows them to eat away 27 seconds off the clock.. Terrible coaching decision, you have to extend the game especially considering N'eastern didn't shoot well from the line all game..

[HometownHoya]

Good thing we have another game today. Some of the comments in here are ridiculous. Bench DSR for Domingo?!? Give up on the season? Some of you need to find enjoyment outside of the team and be lucky that we have such a class team to follow. It seems like this will be an up and down season until everyone learns how to play together but it is by no means over. If we look like we did last night in March again then I will be concerned. People need to relax, we were unranked for a reason.

[x-centercourt400s]

To those of you who gave up on the team after this game, just wanted to let you know that the rest of us are over here: hoyatalk2.proboards.com/post/564761/thread, just in case you want to say hello.

[johnnysnowplow]

Nov 22, 2013 10:20:25 GMT -5 Filo said:

Nov 22, 2013 8:58:21 GMT -5 johnnysnowplow said:

This is the second time someone has mentioned this coincidence. Which is really all it is, a coincidence. It's not a foreshadowing of things to come. This team couldn't hold the 07 teams' jocks. Expecting them to turn things around to the extent that the Final Four team did is quite delusional.

Damn. Really?

Thanks for the clarification. I almost booked a trip to the Final Four based on the "CAA-loss theory." Fortunately, your cogent analysis came just in the nick of time. You probably just saved me some serious coin.

Well I don't know why people keep bringing it up like it's some sort of omen.

[Boz]

Ancient history.

Lock this cruddy thread up!

[dreamhoya]

Got a chance to watch the replay of the N'Eastern game finally and I'll tell you what...that 3-2 zone gave GU fits. The solution would've been to go inside out or just keep feeding Josh. It was a unique and effective zone they used. Really was.