|
|
Post by professorhoya on Nov 21, 2013 16:13:07 GMT -5
That's not the problem though. They are playing 2-3 zone which is conceding the 3pt shot. The problem is most of the lineups we have have no offensive rebounding to collect misses. We are also alot smaller than last year especially at the guard and wing positions. Also right now we lack a zone breaking dribble penetration guard or guy who can flash to the circle (like Otto did last year). Jabril is probably our best guy at dribble penetration but he's not the primary ball handler as Markel and DSR are 1 and 2 behind Jabril gets touches. I pointed it out to highlight that Northeastern figured something out at halftime (penetrate/get the ball inside), and were able to execute it over and over again, encountering little to no resistance. We - on the other hand - allowed them to dictate that we shoot from the perimeter (which we seem to be very willing to do against inferior opponents), and when that wasn't working, we just figured we'd shoot our way out of it. When that didn't work, we shot some more. What's the definition of insanity again? So, we didn't make any adjustments on either end of the court for basically the last 17 minutes of the game. Horrible basketball IQ by our guys today. That's not correct either. We did make adjustments towards the end of the game with offensive and defensive substitutions on every possession. Moses and Trawick in on defense. Josh and Cameron on offense, etc. The game was still very close but Lubick threw the ball away for 2 easy dunks in crunch time. That in itself is a potential 8 pts swing. Lubick played an absolutely horrible game compared to how he usually plays and Markel kind of disappeared. |
|
|
|
Post by michaeldm9 on Nov 21, 2013 16:16:53 GMT -5
I knew the team was in trouble. All I do is look at the FT statistics. Should have been a blow out like Oregon. The only problem was Northeastern missed so many FT. All the comment about the talent and team make up as being the problem. No. Research the teams losses. 90 % of the GTown losses you would see that the overwhelming statistic if FT disparity. Oregon was a blowout? I don't think that word means what you think it means. Blowout to me means the Game is never in doubt. There are game where a team is up by double digits but in the last minutes allow a couple of cheap basket that makes the game seem close. Oregon was a blowout. They controlled the game from beginning to end. |
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Nov 21, 2013 16:18:10 GMT -5
DSR played well. Towards the end of the game he was the only one offensively who kept us in the game till the last minute. He stepped up while others disappeared in crunch time. DSR didn't play well, and for that matter, no one did. DSR played well. Best play on the team. |
|
|
|
Post by hoyalove4ever on Nov 21, 2013 16:18:58 GMT -5
Wow. Horrible loss to a BAD team.
The bottom line is that all of our guards (including Trawick and Bowen) have to be able to make contested threes with longer, more athletic guys in their face. We are in deep water if they cannot do that.
|
|
|
|
Post by aleutianhoya on Nov 21, 2013 16:19:35 GMT -5
I recognize that I may be in the minority on this point, but I was surprised and disappointed to see so many people play so many minutes in the first half. That's where I thought the game was lost. The Hoyas got out to a comfortable early lead, had a chance to put the game away, and then started to rotate players constantly. Again, I know many disagree, but I'm fine with principally an 8 man rotation, particularly given the composition of this team.
For all those who want Nate to play wildly fewer minutes, who should take his time? Smith only played 16 minutes but its unrealistic to think he'll play much more consistently. Hopkins played 24 minutes as it was, and I'm not sure he offers much more in terms of offensive capability than Nate does. Moses isn't a threat at the 4 position offensively. So, what? If you go small, we end up going really small (and if Smith is in the game, there's no one even really to protect the middle offensively). Others are clamoring for less Jabril, but he played less than 20 minutes despite his start, so hard to complain about that.
We have a lot of mis-matched pieces right now. We need to figure out some combinations that work.
|
|
NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,927
|
Post by NCHoya on Nov 21, 2013 16:19:36 GMT -5
Very disappointing. At least it is November, but this team has some sever limitations we are not used to seeing. Is Joshua Smith a plus or minus for this specific team? He is not rebounding and cannot play defense. This team is short on both of those to begin with so is his post play on offense worth the trade off? I don't know yet, but it is clearly something that needs to be in balance. The composition of this team makes me fearful for this season. I really just do not like the way our parts fit, and I agree, Lubick cannot continue to get these minutes if he is not going to be a threat to score. I think you have to pair Joshua Smith with Moses. That needs to be the unit. That way Moses can grab rebound and block shots to cover for Smith while Smith can seal off his man with his size. Lubick is not a defensive shot blocking intimidator and neither is Hopkins. And rebounding wise Lubick is okay but is just not as strong as Moses. Honestly, I would have no problem with III tinkering with his line-ups from now until January to figure out how to hide the deficiencies Smith is giving us that limit his minutes. IMO, this is going to be key to the whole season. He can be a powerful force in the paint, but we are having a hard time affording it. I would agree professor. The first place to look is to pair him with his opposite, which would be Moses. I would try Hopkins after that. Hopefully, one of those two would be an improvement to the Lubick option. Also, time to give Cameron some run. If he can turn into a shotmaker that will help, and he is a willing rebounder. As for the backcourt, Markel needs to understand early foul trouble will blow up this team. He should be playing 38-40 minutes a game and cannot be stupid on defense. DSR is going to up and down. We probably need something more out of Jabril, what he is giving us is not enough on offense but even on defense. Be a specialist if nothing else, right now he is kind of just there. We have such a big hole to dig out of now, just try to fix the problem by the time we start the conference play. Nova did it last year and made the NCAAs. |
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Nov 21, 2013 16:23:15 GMT -5
Wow. Horrible loss to a BAD team. The bottom line is that all of our guards (including Trawick and Bowen) have to be able to make contested threes with longer, more athletic guys in their face. We are in deep water if they cannot do that. That's hard though. That's why it's tough playing against the Syracuse zone (their wings are all long and athletic) and why it was tough to play against our zone when we had Otto and Greg at shooting guard. It just becomes a much tougher shot. You need to have someone who can dribble penetrate and kick out to the 3pt shooters (without turning it over or slipping or charging) or a guy like Otto who can flash to the top of the key and then score or kick it out to create space versus an athletic long zone. Jabril is probably the only one who can do that role on this year's team. |
|
calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,403
|
Post by calhoya on Nov 21, 2013 16:23:56 GMT -5
DSR played well. Towards the end of the game he was the only one offensively who kept us in the game till the last minute. He stepped up while others disappeared in crunch time. DSR didn't play well, and for that matter, no one did. DSR played better toward the end of the game but never played well. His overall game was not strong. Also those complaining about the SF position are missing the elephant in the room. This team requires its veterans to be leaders and either Starks or DSR has to score. Rebounding is poor and defense is really atrocious at this point. Smith simply is not quick, but more importantly I noticed today that he repeatedly jumps and leaves the floor when an opponent goes up for a shot. This is going to have to be corrected--with Smith's size he simply needs to raise his hands and stay on the floor. He is making it too easy for the refs. Also, between Smith, Hopkins and Lubick, finishing around the basket is a continuing problem. When the ball comes in to the low post we have to be able to shoot 80%. Finally, FT shooting remains a major shortcoming for this team. This is not the case with the guards but the posts. |
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Nov 21, 2013 16:26:13 GMT -5
I recognize that I may be in the minority on this point, but I was surprised and disappointed to see so many people play so many minutes in the first half. That's where I thought the game was lost. The Hoyas got out to a comfortable early lead, had a chance to put the game away, and then started to rotate players constantly. Again, I know many disagree, but I'm fine with principally an 8 man rotation, particularly given the composition of this team. But in past year's JTII has been criticized for exactly what you suggest in OCC. The criticism has always been that OCC should be used to play everyone and develop players who can help us later in the season rather than just relying on 6 guys like JTIII did in OCC the last couple years. |
|
NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,927
|
Post by NCHoya on Nov 21, 2013 16:26:50 GMT -5
Wow. Horrible loss to a BAD team. The bottom line is that all of our guards (including Trawick and Bowen) have to be able to make contested threes with longer, more athletic guys in their face. We are in deep water if they cannot do that. This is why I think Cameron and Domingo should get more minutes now. Build up their confidence/ability to make contested 3s against a zone. That said, it would be nice to get guys some open 3s against a zone. That should be possible when Josh is on the floor and if Starks/somebody tries to dribble penetrate. |
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Nov 21, 2013 16:30:36 GMT -5
Josh is also still not in shape. So that is effecting his defense and rebounding. Remember he was only supposed to play 10 minutes a game at this point in the season and he's already played 27, 17 and 16 minutes.
|
|
|
|
Post by x-centercourt400s on Nov 21, 2013 16:31:52 GMT -5
Please keep in mind that this game was played in NOVEMBER. The coaching staff has a lot to work on right now and it seems like everyone's patience will be tested while the team's weaknesses are addressed. But it is still NOVEMBER. And then there will be December, which might have its trying moments too. But given the top 20 level of play that we as fans have been treated to for years I'm confident that improvements will be made and this team will be in a good place going into league play.
It was a bad loss, but its early people. Put away the shovels...
|
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Nov 21, 2013 16:33:33 GMT -5
Wow. Horrible loss to a BAD team. The bottom line is that all of our guards (including Trawick and Bowen) have to be able to make contested threes with longer, more athletic guys in their face. We are in deep water if they cannot do that. This is why I think Cameron and Domingo should get more minutes now. Build up their confidence/ability to make contested 3s against a zone. That said, it would be nice to get guys some open 3s against a zone. That should be possible when Josh is on the floor and if Starks/somebody tries to dribble penetrate. Yup Starks and DSR can only really hit 3s when they are wide open. If someone is in their face the percentage is much lower unless it's a small defender. Then Starks gets frustrated and launches a 30ft 3pt which almost never goes in. Cameron and Domingo are much taller and longer and elevate on their shot so potentially they have the ability to shoot over a long, athletic zone. |
|
royski
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,300
|
Post by royski on Nov 21, 2013 16:36:22 GMT -5
Please keep in mind that this game was played in NOVEMBER. The coaching staff has a lot to work on right now and it seems like everyone's patience will be tested while the team's weaknesses are addressed. But it is still NOVEMBER. And then there will be December, which might have its trying moments too. But given the top 20 level of play that we as fans have been treated to for years I'm confident that improvements will be made and this team will be in a good place going into league play. It was a bad loss, but its early people. Put away the shovels... We were demolished for over twenty minutes by NORTHEASTERN on a neutral court. Nothing here is an overreaction. It's the worst Hoya performance in years. |
|
deacon
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,850
|
Post by deacon on Nov 21, 2013 16:36:25 GMT -5
DSR didn't play well, and for that matter, no one did. DSR played well. Best play on the team. What game were you watching? He was 5-14 from the field (1-5 3 FG), couldn't guard a fire hydrant and late in the game, chucked a 27-foot jumper with more 25 seconds left on the shot clock and committed an incredibly dumb reach-around foul with the game tied at 56 with 1:34 left and after those two makes at the line, they never relinquished the lead. He led the team in scoring, so what? He didn't have a good game. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2013 16:38:11 GMT -5
I pointed it out to highlight that Northeastern figured something out at halftime (penetrate/get the ball inside), and were able to execute it over and over again, encountering little to no resistance. We - on the other hand - allowed them to dictate that we shoot from the perimeter (which we seem to be very willing to do against inferior opponents), and when that wasn't working, we just figured we'd shoot our way out of it. When that didn't work, we shot some more. What's the definition of insanity again? So, we didn't make any adjustments on either end of the court for basically the last 17 minutes of the game. Horrible basketball IQ by our guys today. That's not correct either. We did make adjustments towards the end of the game with offensive and defensive substitutions on every possession. Moses and Trawick in on defense. Josh and Cameron on offense, etc. The game was still very close but Lubick threw the ball away for 2 easy dunks in crunch time. That in itself is a potential 8 pts swing. Lubick played an absolutely horrible game compared to how he usually plays and Markel kind of disappeared. We may have subbed guys in and out, but they appeared to do the same things the other guys had been doing, so I don't count that as making adjustments. We lost the game in the 7+ minute scoreless stretch when the score went from 40-26 to 40-40. It consisted of them working us over inside, followed by us taking ill-advised shots against their zone. Over and over and over again, for 7 minutes. Not to mention, we fouled out one of their starting guards 4 minutes into the second half, and 2 of their bigs had 4 fouls each relatively early in the second half. Did we do anything to take advantage of that foul trouble, like maybe penetrating more? Nope. Just kept chucking, because we were terrified of Northeastern's zone. NORTH-F-ING-EASTERN. We let them dictate the game to us, and played right into their hands for the last 17 minutes of the game. That's what I mean by saying that we didn't make adjustments. Say what you want about Lubick's late turnovers, but the game never should have gotten to that point. |
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Nov 21, 2013 16:38:27 GMT -5
DSR played well. Best play on the team. What game were you watching? He was 5-14 from the field (1-5 3 FG), couldn't guard a fire hydrant and late in the game, chucked a 27-foot jumper with more 25 seconds left on the shot clock and committed an incredibly dumb reach-around foul with the game tied at 56 with 1:34 left and after those two makes at the line, they never relinquished the lead. He led the team in scoring, so what? He didn't have a good game. Who played better than him. Not Markel or Lubick that's for sure. If you watched the game you would know. He's the only one who stepped up to keep the game close in the 2nd half while everyone else just stood around on offense. |
|
|
|
Post by johnnysnowplow on Nov 21, 2013 16:40:10 GMT -5
What game were you watching? He was 5-14 from the field (1-5 3 FG), couldn't guard a fire hydrant and late in the game, chucked a 27-foot jumper with more 25 seconds left on the shot clock and committed an incredibly dumb reach-around foul with the game tied at 56 with 1:34 left and after those two makes at the line, they never relinquished the lead. He led the team in scoring, so what? He didn't have a good game. Who played better than him. Not Markel or Lubick that's for sure. If you watched the game you would know. He's the only one who stepped up to keep the game close in the 2nd half while everyone else just stood around on offense. The mere fact that no one played better than him does not mean he played well. No one played well today. Literally no one. |
|
|
|
Post by hoyalove4ever on Nov 21, 2013 16:42:55 GMT -5
This is why I think Cameron and Domingo should get more minutes now. Build up their confidence/ability to make contested 3s against a zone. That said, it would be nice to get guys some open 3s against a zone. That should be possible when Josh is on the floor and if Starks/somebody tries to dribble penetrate. Yup Starks and DSR can only really hit 3s when they are wide open. If someone is in their face the percentage is much lower unless it's a small defender. Then Starks gets frustrated and launches a 30ft 3pt which almost never goes in. Cameron and Domingo are much taller and longer and elevate on their shot so potentially they have the ability to shoot over a long, athletic zone. I agree that Cameron and Domingo are important, but mostly we need Starks and DSR to be able to shoot with long, athletic defenders right in their face. DSR needs to cut out the shoulders-back crap. If he gets his shot tossed- fine. Starks and DSR should have any number of threes blocked right back in their face, but they should also drain a lot of threes with guys right in their face. |
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Nov 21, 2013 16:44:00 GMT -5
[ Did we do anything to take advantage of that foul trouble, like maybe penetrating more? Nope. Just kept chucking, because we were terrified of Northeastern's zone. NORTH-F-ING-EASTERN. We don't really have dribble penetration guards though. Markel is more of a Steve Kerr type deadly 3pt shooter combo guard. Dribble penetration isn't his game. When he does dribble penetrate he either turns it over, slips or charges unless he can get off his floater. And he rarely kicks it out which is the main reason to dribble penetrate in the first place. And DSR isn't great off the dribble though he did start to penetrate alot in the 2nd half to keep us in the game. But even DSR when he penetrates he is looking to score not kick it out. Jabril is our best dribble penetrator but he doesn't have the ball in his hands enough for it to make a difference. |
|
