Georgetown - Northeastern 11/21/13 Game Discussion

[71hoya]

Can anyone score from 10 feet out or will anyone even shoot from 10 feet out. How about taking a shot in rhythm. Team really looked like they had no idea what they were doing. Smith was doubled and tripled teamed. Someone had to be open for a really easy jumper. Same old story.

[EasyEd]

The good news is we will not lose in the first round of the NCAA's this year.

[blueeagle]

This loss clearly demonstrates that things have not clicked... yet. Also that there are many weaknesses to this team. Many.

Adjustments will obviously have to be made. Personnel changes, game prep changes, X's and O's changes.

But fundamentally, are there signs this early in the season that tell us what to expect from this team this year?

We may not have the talent of a top 25 team, but we have the talent to win a game against a bad mid major club. Heck, our experience alone should have ensured a more respectable showing.

One could argue that our smaller guards were at a disadvantage. Well, one could argue the same about our opponents' front court. So why did they take advantage of their mismatches and we did not?

If the issues of game preparation, in game coaching, player motivation, and effort are not addressed, we are looking at a very disappointing season. I hope it ends there.

The loss will be forgotten by most casual bball fans. It's early in the season. III and company though should never forget. As a fan and supporter of the program, I won't.

[Problem of Dog]

Someone was complaining earlier this fall when a writer said JTIII was not a good "in game" coach. I think today is a great example of that.

[bowhoya]

The pass-around-the-perimeter, passive offensive attack needs to end! We are not using the offensive ability of our players against a lesser talented team. Hopefully, next year, we will better utilize our more athletic freshmen. I do mean next year, since you can write-off any success for this year.

[FrazierFanatic]

Nov 21, 2013 20:50:15 GMT -5 bowhoya said:

The pass-around-the-perimeter, passive offensive attack needs to end! We are not using the offensive ability of our players against a lesser talented team. Hopefully, next year, we will better utilize our more athletic freshmen. I do mean next year, since you can write-off any success for this year.

Just a little early to give up?

[michaelgrahmstylie]

Hopefully, this is a case of us getting our falling down done early. I'm willing to be patient and wait for this team to come together. A good whupping early to a team like Northeastern might be just what these guys need to remind them that they can't sleep on any team.

[hibbertfor3]

Nov 21, 2013 20:01:57 GMT -5 EasyEd said:

The good news is we will not lose in the first round of the NCAA's this year.

I see what you did there

[mfk24]

Not that this is any sort of consolation AT ALL, but VCU lost to FSU by 18. Maybe there's just bad juju in PR.

[NCHoya]

At least JTIII's quotes after the game were about effort and competitiveness versus fixing things. He is right, more than anything else, these players need to learn how to compete. They were simply outworked today and the fight was taken to them. Again, another poor response by the Hoyas to a lesser competitor pushing back.

I really thought those long scoreless droughts this year would disappear with Josh Smith, I guess not so much.

[calhoya]

Nov 21, 2013 16:46:47 GMT -5 aleutianhoya said:

Nov 21, 2013 16:26:13 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

But in past year's JTII has been criticized for exactly what you suggest in OCC. The criticism has always been that OCC should be used to play everyone and develop players who can help us later in the season rather than just relying on 6 guys like JTIII did in OCC the last couple years.

I get that, that's why I said I knew I was in the minority. I had no problem with a short bench then and no problem with it now. That's because, to me, you need to take care of winning first. People who want an expanded rotation need to reconcile that with the possibility that doing so will result in games being closer late than would otherwise be the case. And some of those games will turn into losses. Like this one. Not all games are won and lost at the end. Maybe at the end of the day and the end of the year, the playing experience will outweigh the bad loss. Could be.

This was a bad loss, no doubt about it. But this wasn't a loss to an RPI 250 team (at least I don't think it was). Probably not significantly worse than our loss to South Florida last year.

This game was not lost by the back end of the rotation. It was lost in the 2nd half by starters who never performed. Bowen played better than most, Cameron played hard and even Domingo contributed. Moses was not a factor. Way too early for panic but if there is a flaw right now it is inconsistent play by top of the rotation players.

[This Just In]

Nov 21, 2013 19:03:34 GMT -5 lichoya68 said:

Very sad very embarassing. One of the worst hoya folds ever Let them come back from 14 down in the second half to tie. THEN they out scored us by 21 in the second half. outplayed outhustled out d'ed out o'd our rebbied just totally outed. MUST MOVE MOVE MOVE AND MOVE ONE> yup it is just a game played by 18-22 year old student ahtletes but GOTTA WORK IT OUT SOON. go hoyas Bad outing for sure.

 Lichoya68---u rarely ever make a negative comment...this really lets me know how bad a loss this really was.  Even in November.

[FrazierFanatic]

Unfortunately a loss like this may mean even less time for the bench, since the top of the rotation appears to have huge amounts to work on.

[3xhoya]

I haven't read all of this thread. I spent today avoiding media and the internet and was just treated to this pile of trash on my DVR. There are several things that concern me. I am going to preface this by saying that I am normally a supporter of JT3 but some things have to change (I am not implying we need a new coach, but a new way of looking at things).

I am sick of these scoring droughts. I watch a lot of college bball and I rarely see a team fail to score as often as Gtown. In the first 9 minutes and 20 seconds of the second half we scored 4 points. 4! This is a joke! This is not a one time event, it happens every year in almost every game. I am getting sick of watching the guards pass the ball around the perimeter. I am happy JT3 realized we needed to score and started inserting Reggie and Josh on O, however, run a play for them! If Reggie is supposedly a 3 point specialist (we saw it in the last game) run some screens for him. He just stood there on the perimeter while the offense made the "reads."

Until this year the recruiting has not been to the standard we expect the program to be. For years I heard about assistant coaches who weren't good on the trail, some guy nicknamed Taub. This is the result of those missed recruiting years. With the current assistant coaches we seem to be getting an influx of talented and athletic kids. One thing is still missing and I place this on 3, a dribble drive PG. It appears 3 does not value this but it is definitely missing on this team and is the way basketball is currently being played. Semaj had 8 assists and 3 TO's last night and this program could use someone like that.

I am terrified to watch the games against Kansas and MSU this year.

There is plenty of time left to address some of these issues. I will be present for every step of the way and will be watching a DVR'd game again tomorrow night. I really hope the see things change. This will be an up and down year but I am in it for the long haul.

[This Just In]

Nov 21, 2013 22:15:30 GMT -5 calhoya said:

Nov 21, 2013 16:46:47 GMT -5 aleutianhoya said:

I get that, that's why I said I knew I was in the minority. I had no problem with a short bench then and no problem with it now. That's because, to me, you need to take care of winning first. People who want an expanded rotation need to reconcile that with the possibility that doing so will result in games being closer late than would otherwise be the case. And some of those games will turn into losses. Like this one. Not all games are won and lost at the end. Maybe at the end of the day and the end of the year, the playing experience will outweigh the bad loss. Could be.

This was a bad loss, no doubt about it. But this wasn't a loss to an RPI 250 team (at least I don't think it was). Probably not significantly worse than our loss to South Florida last year.

This game was not lost by the back end of the rotation. It was lost in the 2nd half by starters who never performed. Bowen played better than most, Cameron played hard and even Domingo contributed. Moses was not a factor. Way too early for panic but if there is a flaw right now it is inconsistent play by top of the rotation players.

At half with the lead a double digit lead the top performers were:

Nate Lubick 6pts, 5rebs., 1blk
Aaron Bowen 4pts, 4rebs., 4 assts. 

Then the wheels feel off in the 2nd half.

[EtomicB]

Nov 21, 2013 22:22:20 GMT -5 FrazierFanatic said:

Unfortunately a loss like this may mean even less time for the bench, since the top of the rotation appears to have huge amounts to work on.

Honestly how do we tell who the "top" rotation players are? Markel & DSR for sure, I'll say Josh too but we have to realize teams will continually swarm him once he gets the ball down low. He has to make quicker decisions..

After that who deserves guaranteed playing time?

[blueandgray]

In my mind, this has to be the worst out of conference regular season loss I can remember.

I was at the game, and while the players made poor decisions and were getting out efforted by NU....some of the coaching moves, line ups, substitutions and adjustments (or lack there of) had me scratching my head.

The silver lining .....there are a couple of things worth mentioning. Greg Whittington is very much part of this team and has taken on the role of head cheerleader much as Tyler has done in the past. He's performing well in class and will be ready to contribute big time next year. Another positive was watching josh get coached up by other players. He was totally receptive to feedback and is working hard to get better.

We need to face the fact that we simply aren't very good this year. Feels like the only chance at a deep tourney run this year would be in the NIT. That said, all 4 recruits signed their LOI's and did so in the nick of time....for that we have a lot to be grateful for.

[OldHoyafan]

I hope III is using these three games as a learning point for himself as well as the players. This is not a team constituted to be a pressing team. The guards are too short and too slow footed to be a pressing team even against slow guards like Northeastern had. Also Smith is not the shot blocker you want at the end of a press. Therefore I sincerely hope III scraps the press and tell his guys to bust their butts back and play a tight zone. They will just have to live with the team that gets hot from 3pt land. It's been comical to hear the Fox 1 commentators saying that the Hoyas have a dynamic staring guard duo in Starks and DSR. Neither is dynamic. They are good open 3pt shooters, but neither has the handle to routinely get all the way to the basket and finish or dish, therefore they are not in my opinion "dynamic" guards. Neither can take over and dominate a game. They are good guards, good guys and great young men and the Hoyas are lucky to have them, but dynamic they are not. I hope III will see that if Smith is going to start your games, with DSR and Nate then you have a slow team both offensively and defensively. Next year with the incoming frosh and Whittington, he will again have the athleticism to press and run again and deplore that "Princeton on Steroids" team, but not this year. This team can still win its share of games but it will have to come from a more deliberate offense more closely resembling a standard Princeton offense. I think the immediate change could be to go big and get even slower. Sit DSR and replace him with Domingo. Sit Trawic and replace him with Cameron. Play exclusively a zone defense. Cameron and Domingo will eventually provide the open 3pt shot when Smith is tripled team that they are not getting now because of DSR's inability to get shot off because of his height and Trawic's inability and reluctance to take the 3pt shot. Nate's a good hustler and passer so he can get you the garbage points on Smiths misses around the basket. DSR should come off the bench to replace Starks at the point. Trawic and Bowen come in to replace Domingo and Hopkins comes in to replace Cameron, but not at the same time. This will be a much slower team and not that exciting but will have a chance to win the majority of its games. I hope III proves me wrong and molds the pieces into a mirror of last years team, but whiteout Otto and Greg, I don't see that happening.

[hoyatables]

Seriously choosing not to be worried (easy to say because I have missed all three games so far). Last time we lost to a CAA-level team early in the season (as well as to Oregon, I might add)? 2006-2007.

[bigelephant]

I see bad times acomin' - then I am nearly always wrong