Joshua Smith Discussion

[HometownHoya]

Oct 3, 2013 21:14:25 GMT -5 michaelgrahmstylie said:

Something I have not heard discussed much on this board is, what if things get turned around for Josh Smith? What would this mean for the Georgetown program? What would it mean for JT-3? I would think that there is a lot riding on the success, or the lack thereof, of Josh, given his tumultuous time at UCLA. I know JT-3 likes to couch his potential in words like "It is up to Josh" and so forth, but the truth of the matter is this kid can end up paying huge dividends for all involved. I, for one, just hope and pray that Josh can end our drought in Final Four tournament play.

Just quoting, not attacking...

I dont expect Josh to carry us to a FF, but the team + Josh better be at least top 2 in the BE and a decent showing in the NCAA. As is discussed every year nearing March, as much as we would all love some NCAA success, the real test of a successful College Basketball program is the regular season/conference season/conference tournament...the NCAAs are more of a "Edited-show". We stepped up last season, even without GW but this season I expect all of our players to take it to their next level, whether or not they expect Josh in November or Decemeber and GW at all. If we can make the final 4 of all 351 Div 1 basketball programs, we should all be ecstatic! Even the sweet 16 is a luck of the draw event. I agree with you that Josh is a huge part of our upcoming season, but he is not the key to a successful year, the growth of our returning roster is the biggest factor. To me, I think the development of our backcourt is the most important factor, between Markel, DSR, Jabril, Bowen and whoever else you'd like to include, we need all of them to step up. We aren't in the 80's anymore where we need a Pat Ewing to show up, it's now a guard's game where the attackers are favored. As long as Markel and DSR don't regress, we should be strong in the backcourt with Jabril or Aaron as the supporting cast (if not solid 3s). Being a "hoyatalker", I love the debates about the team coming up, but honestly, I'm not too worried.

To your exact question, personally, I hope the rest of the team were to step up to cover any shortcomings of Josh Smith. If the team were to miss the NCAAs or flop in general, I think all of us and John Thompson III would agree where the blame lay. Coach knows that he needs to step it up in the post-season but no-one can argue with his year-round on and off the court success.

[michaelgrahmstylie]

Great points HtHoya. And I don't mean to belabour the point. However, I still believe dominating centers like Ewing still has a place in today's college game.

[SFHoya99]

I can't believe there's really that much of a debate about Josh's impact.

Markel is likely to be a above average player for us at PG.
DSR has a good shot to become a very good scoring option.

Trawick is probably right around average, with an outside shot to be above average if he shoots better.
Nate's in the around average, maybe slightly below bucket.

Hopkins and Moses are below average with some potential to improve.

When was the last time we went into a year with such little upside? There's a team aspect here I'm probably leaving out, especially on D, where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, but without Josh Smith and Greg Whittington, I think this is the least talented team that Thompson has rolled out there.

Either way, with Josh Smith, it's an entirely different story. Without Smith, it's hope DSR turns into a consistent scoring machine, the outside shooting sticks and that we defend incredibly well as a team without Whit or Porter. With Josh Smith, we have an offensive option that doesn't involve a three or a guard free-styling.

[calhoya]

I think that DSR and Starks will both prove to be very good players this year. I believe that Jabril and Lubick are also above average players within this system. To me the season comes down to the growth of Hopkins, Moses, Bowen, Cameron, and Domingo. I truly believe that Hopkins and Bowen will take the biggest steps and that if used regularly Moses can become an important contributor. Cameron may prove to be instant offense and a liability on defense. Domingo is a mystery to me, with Kenner reports bleak and his pre-college credentials still promising. As for Smith, given his weight and conditioning, I think he will not likely be the major asset this year that many expect. I have watched him at his best and worst and no one thinks more of his potential than me. However, it is probably expecting too much to think he can regain his conditioning in such a short period of time.

[HoyaSinceBirth]

espn.go.com/ncb/notebook/_/page/dailyword131009/daily-word

3. What kind of case does Georgetown's Josh Smith have that would make him eligible instead of waiting until mid-December?

Andy Katz: If Smith wins an appeal it could shatter the mid-semester transfer rule, opening up a new round of free agency. Smith played in six games for UCLA. There wasn't a hardship, but in the current climate of earning waivers Smith might as well attempt to play after sitting out only one semester.

Eamonn Brennan: Judging by NCAA precedent, almost no case at all. But NCAA precedent is a fickle thing, especially these days. Smith would have to prove some mitigating circumstance for the eligibility office to deviate from its usual protocols. I have no idea what that would be, but it would have to be awfully convincing for the transfer-obsessed NCAA to be lenient on a midseason move.

C.L. Brown: The fair thing to do would be sit Josh Smith out the six games that he played for UCLA before transferring. This isn't about being fair. It would seem Smith would be denied his request, if for no other reason than to discourage others from trying to follow in his footsteps.

[FrazierFanatic]

Any chance that we made the request without really expecting it to be granted, but rather with the hope that by giving the NCAA something to deny, it would make it less likely that the NCAA would also count the 6 games from last season as a full season, and therefore rule that this is Josh's last "season"?

[FromTheBeginning]

You might have hit the nail on the head with that one Fanatic.

[Dhall]

The one "hardship" point for Smith is that he had to leave UCLA to get away from Howland, who was the subject of a major Sports Illustrated article exposing his abusive behavior which some might argue violated NCAA rules. Howland was eventually fired for this behavior. Of course, that same article reflected poorly on Smith himself.

[BubbleVisionBiff]

Oct 9, 2013 11:20:20 GMT -5 FrazierFanatic said:

Any chance that we made the request without really expecting it to be granted, but rather with the hope that by giving the NCAA something to deny, it would make it less likely that the NCAA would also count the 6 games from last season as a full season, and therefore rule that this is Josh's last "season"?

I see what you are saying FF. But, from a process standpoint, are the two of a piece? Aren't those 2 separate waiver requests? Wouldn't/Shouldn't you wait to request the "extra year" unless you were sure you were going to want it? In Josh's case, I don't think we know if he will be here/want to be here in 14-15. Even if he decided he wants to come back and there is a second waiver request, is the NCAA at all obliged to place it into context with an earlier request?

Rules gurus please correct me if I am wrong. I often am.

[professorhoya]

Oct 9, 2013 11:20:20 GMT -5 FrazierFanatic said:

Any chance that we made the request without really expecting it to be granted, but rather with the hope that by giving the NCAA something to deny, it would make it less likely that the NCAA would also count the 6 games from last season as a full season, and therefore rule that this is Josh's last "season"?

I think that's more important. I really don't think it's that big a loss if he doesn't play a couple meaningless OCC games in November and early December. But it would be huge to have Josh available for 2014-2015. Especially since Fat Elbert decided to pass on us for next year.

If they deny the OCC games for Josh, then we have a much stronger arguement for Josh getting 2 seasons with us. Otherwise it would be kind of cruel to transfer and only get half a semester of playing time with the school you are going to graduate from.

[rockhoya]

Hopefully he only has to sit out 6

[hoyasexy]

Oct 9, 2013 12:25:09 GMT -5 Dhall said:

The one "hardship" point for Smith is that he had to leave UCLA to get away from Howland, who was the subject of a major Sports Illustrated article exposing his abusive behavior which some might argue violated NCAA rules. Howland was eventually fired for this behavior. Of course, that same article reflected poorly on Smith himself.

The hardship wasn't caused by the article. It was caused by Howland and his behavior. The article only chronicled the behavior. That Josh wasn't portrayed well in the article is irrelevant.

[SirSaxa]

I have no idea of how these kids circumstances compare to Josh, but each played NCAA basketball last season, transferred to MN and are eligible to play right away.
----------------

MINNEAPOLIS -- The NCAA has cleared transfer Joey King to play this season for Minnesota.

The 6-foot-9, 215-pound King grew up in the Twin Cities area and led Eastview High School to the 2012 state tournament. He's in line to start at power forward for the Gophers, who are trying to replace Trevor Mbakwe and Rodney Williams in their frontcourt. King played last season at Drake, averaging 6.9 points and 2.9 rebounds per game and landing on the Missouri Valley Conference all-freshman team.

The university confirmed Friday that King has been cleared. Shooting guard Malik Smith, who transferred from Florida International, also received a waiver to play right away for the Gophers.
Minnesota starts the season Nov. 8 against Lehigh.



espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9844965/joey-king-cleared-play-season-minnesota-golden-gophers

[CaliHoya]

Looks like King played the family card, which Josh does not have:

"King had been seeking a transfer due to family reasons and it is possible that he could get a waiver, to that end, that would make him eligible right away."

[prhoya]

Hopefully we get an answer before the SK trip

[CaliHoya]

I know sometime soon, I'm going to check Hoyatalk and this thread will be blowing up with the biggest news of the Hoya season thus far (positive or negative). Hurry up, NCAA!!

[professorhoya]

Oct 18, 2013 15:46:23 GMT -5 SirSaxa said:

I have no idea of how these kids circumstances compare to Josh, but each played NCAA basketball last season, transferred to MN and are eligible to play right away.
----------------

MINNEAPOLIS -- The NCAA has cleared transfer Joey King to play this season for Minnesota.

The 6-foot-9, 215-pound King grew up in the Twin Cities area and led Eastview High School to the 2012 state tournament. He's in line to start at power forward for the Gophers, who are trying to replace Trevor Mbakwe and Rodney Williams in their frontcourt. King played last season at Drake, averaging 6.9 points and 2.9 rebounds per game and landing on the Missouri Valley Conference all-freshman team.

The university confirmed Friday that King has been cleared. Shooting guard Malik Smith, who transferred from Florida International, also received a waiver to play right away for the Gophers.
Minnesota starts the season Nov. 8 against Lehigh.



espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9844965/joey-king-cleared-play-season-minnesota-golden-gophers

The Minnesota kid (King) has the same scenario that Julian Vaughn had. Vaughn grew up and is from this area (Reston), went off to Florida State and then came back home to Georgetown/DMV for family reasons and played immediately. Josh is from Seattle so can't really play this card.

As far as Malik Smith, he's not from Minnesota but, qualifies for the postseason ban exception:
"The Gophers had prepared a case based on the NCAA bylaw exception that states student athletes can be eligible for a waiver if their former institution is banned from the postseason for all the remaining years of that player’s eligibility. FIU received such a ban last month when the APR numbers were released, failing to reach the NCAA’s minimum (the ruling was based on the school’s four-year average, meaning that neither Pitino, nor Smith had much to do with it)."
www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/215884721.html

[lichoya68]

PLEASE LET THE GUY PLAY BALL HES NOW A HOYA AND DIFFERENT SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES HERE go hoyas

[SSHoya]

www.washingtonpost.com/sports/georgetown-basketball-josh-smith-a-big-presence-and-question-mark/2013/10/22/424a5602-3b69-11e3-a94f-b58017bfee6c_story.html

[SirSaxa]

Oct 23, 2013 5:37:19 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

www.washingtonpost.com/sports/georgetown-basketball-josh-smith-a-big-presence-and-question-mark/2013/10/22/424a5602-3b69-11e3-a94f-b58017bfee6c_story.html

thanks for posting that link SS.
I believe the key issue for us was addressed in this Excerpt:

As for Smith’s fitness and conditioning, a concern since he enrolled in college, Thompson said: “It’s getting there. By no means is it where it should be, but it has come a long way. It’s a work in progress. Something he has to stay diligent with; something he has to care about.”