SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Feb 16, 2014 20:51:35 GMT -5
Thanks, Jay Bilas. That foul added to the game.
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Feb 28, 2014 9:20:10 GMT -5
The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that Josh Smith royally screwed us single-handedly out of being an NCAA lock by now. There is no doubt in my mind that if Smith never suits up for the Hoyas, we never wind up in a position where the bottom falls out when he was lost. Other bigs would have gotten more time early in the year, and the team would have played more like it is playing now. By being around for a while first before disappearing, he completely destroyed us.
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TC
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Post by TC on Feb 28, 2014 10:23:50 GMT -5
The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that Josh Smith royally screwed us single-handedly out of being an NCAA lock by now. There is no doubt in my mind that if Smith never suits up for the Hoyas, we never wind up in a position where the bottom falls out when he was lost. Other bigs would have gotten more time early in the year, and the team would have played more like it is playing now. By being around for a while first before disappearing, he completely destroyed us. That's crazy. You act like this team has a host of bigs that are underplayed - the only player to see more time would have been Hayes. People are overrating Bradley Hayes based on a few minutes playing time - just like they overrated Vee Sanford and Jerelle Benimon based on a couple of baskets versus Syracuse when they were freshmen. |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 28, 2014 10:39:50 GMT -5
I tend to agree with TC. Smith averaged 19.9 minutes when he did play, so at most those are all the minutes that could have been taken by somebody else. In all likelihood, those would have largely been absorbed by Lubick, Hopkins, and Moses. Hayes is really the only other guy who could have taken the time, and it's doubtful that he would have gotten a ton of time anyway.
I will admit that Hayes did fairly well last night considering the circumstances. It's a small sample size, but I would not mind seeing a little more of him given how putrid our frontcourt has been this season. If he continued to play that way, I would admit I was wrong in assuming the worst about his performance.
That said, we are talking about the end of our bench here. Let's say Hayes is as good as Moses and helped the defense a little. Sure, it might help, but that's not taking this team from 7-9 to 11-5 or something of that nature. I think there is a reflexive tendency to think that the one guy who is not playing could have made all the difference if only he played - and in most circumstances that's really not true.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 28, 2014 10:44:04 GMT -5
Without Smith we don't beat VCU and K State, so winning a couple of conference games against Marquette would basically be a wash. But as I posted in the game thread last night, I hope that Smith was watching that game, and realized how much he let his teammates down by failing to do his schoolwork. We win both Marquette games with him, and are going to the NCAA's. Instead he screws up the senior season of a kid who has absolutely worked his butt off to try to carry this ragtag bunch on his back.
As I and others have also said before, it is even more reason for JTIII to give Smith an ultimatum - you show your teammates that you are committed to them by dropping 40 pounds by September and being ready to be a force next year, or don't bother coming back.
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TC
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Post by TC on Feb 28, 2014 10:49:49 GMT -5
As I and others have also said before, it is even more reason for JTIII to give Smith an ultimatum - you show your teammates that you are committed to them by dropping 40 pounds by September and being ready to be a force next year, or don't bother coming back. Which would leave us with what at C? As I and others have also said before, not going full court press on Paschal Chukwu was an epic mistake. |
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 28, 2014 10:53:34 GMT -5
As I and others have also said before, it is even more reason for JTIII to give Smith an ultimatum - you show your teammates that you are committed to them by dropping 40 pounds by September and being ready to be a force next year, or don't bother coming back. Which would leave us with what at C? As I and others have also said before, not going full court press on Paschal Chukwu was an epic mistake. It would leave us shorthanded underneath - but (1) we would know that from the start and would have time to structure our offense and defense to deal with it; and (2) it would prevent a repeat of what happened with Smith this season, which would seem a distinct possibility - if he can't show enough discipline in the cafeteria, he won't show it in the classroom. |
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Feb 28, 2014 11:22:50 GMT -5
Totally agree Frazier. Josh Smith let down this team so much and the worst of it is watching Starks fight with everything he has these last few weeks knowing he is going to end his college career in disappointment. I would have kicked Smith off the team. I was surprised JT3 said he expects him to be back, how many chances do you give this kid? He was already a high risk transfer, given a rare eligibility gift by the NCAA and somehow still failed his teammates in the worst way. Sure the team would be screwed at the 5 again next season, but I have no confidence in Smith lasting a full season next year anyway.
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 28, 2014 11:30:32 GMT -5
Totally agree Frazier. Josh Smith let down this team so much and the worst of it is watching Starks fight with everything he has these last few weeks knowing he is going to end his college career in disappointment. I would have kicked Smith off the team. I was surprised JT3 said he expects him to be back, how many chances do you give this kid? He was already a high risk transfer, given a rare eligibility gift by the NCAA and somehow still failed his teammates in the worst way. Sure the team would be screwed at the 5 again next season, but I have no confidence in Smith lasting a full season next year anyway. I doubt Starks has accepted that his college career will end in disappointment. You may have, but I bet he hasn't. There are still paths available toward a triumphant finish to his career. One never knows. |
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 28, 2014 11:45:13 GMT -5
Totally agree Frazier. Josh Smith let down this team so much and the worst of it is watching Starks fight with everything he has these last few weeks knowing he is going to end his college career in disappointment. I would have kicked Smith off the team. I was surprised JT3 said he expects him to be back, how many chances do you give this kid? He was already a high risk transfer, given a rare eligibility gift by the NCAA and somehow still failed his teammates in the worst way. Sure the team would be screwed at the 5 again next season, but I have no confidence in Smith lasting a full season next year anyway. I doubt Starks has accepted that his college career will end in disappointment. You may have, but I bet he hasn't. There are still paths available toward a triumphant finish to his career. One never knows. Exactly. I am sure that Markel is disappointed with the season so far, but there is no way he does not think this team can still fight back and earn an NCAA berth. This whole team is fighting with everything they have, and 'kel is their leader. |
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Feb 28, 2014 11:53:52 GMT -5
Even when I agree with someone, there needs to be a disagreement.
If either of you do not think Markel is disappointed in his senior year as a basketball player, we can agree to disagree. And I am sure he has not given up, he is a great competitor, but there is no way this season has gone the way he planned or it should have for him.
The damn point is Josh Smith screwed this team.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Feb 28, 2014 12:02:13 GMT -5
I’m not all too worried about Josh’s academic status next season if he is with the team. He is a senior now and if he is not on track to graduate this spring he should nonetheless be on track to graduate soon. After all he came from a real college program that required kids to go to class and he had not had a history of academic difficulties before. Would not surprise me if he graduates this summer or graduates by the first semester of next season which would mean we would be almost guaranteed his presence by the time Big East play began. That’s my theory at least.
I am more concerned about his physical shape though. If he can’t get much better and ends up only being able to g 20 minutes hard next season, my preference would be for the Hoyas to go to him early and often when he is on the court Let him get those interior points, those easy baskets and let us get the other team’s big men in foul trouble instead of the other way around. That’s all I ask.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 28, 2014 12:17:40 GMT -5
Even when I agree with someone, there needs to be a disagreement. If either of you do not think Markel is disappointed in his senior year as a basketball player, we can agree to disagree. And I am sure he has not given up, he is a great competitor, but there is no way this season has gone the way he planned or it should have for him. The damn point is Josh Smith screwed this team. Absolutely right about Josh. I guess the point about Markel is that I thought your wording made it sound like he has already accepted that this team is not making the tournament. I did agree that he is certainly disappointed so far. |
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Feb 28, 2014 12:19:19 GMT -5
The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that Josh Smith royally screwed us single-handedly out of being an NCAA lock by now. There is no doubt in my mind that if Smith never suits up for the Hoyas, we never wind up in a position where the bottom falls out when he was lost. Other bigs would have gotten more time early in the year, and the team would have played more like it is playing now. By being around for a while first before disappearing, he completely destroyed us. That's crazy. You act like this team has a host of bigs that are underplayed - the only player to see more time would have been Hayes. People are overrating Bradley Hayes based on a few minutes playing time - just like they overrated Vee Sanford and Jerelle Benimon based on a couple of baskets versus Syracuse when they were freshmen. I wasn't really talking about Hayes at all. III himself has alluded to the adjustment it took to dealing with Smith not being there when the team had prepared to play with him for most of the season. I think it is far from clear that the early season Josh Smith team was superior to the current team as it has developed since the Michigan State game. My point is that if the words "Josh Smith" had never been uttered by a Georgetown coach, player, or fan, there are very good reasons to believe this team would already have an NCAA ticket punched. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2014 12:24:01 GMT -5
As I and others have also said before, it is even more reason for JTIII to give Smith an ultimatum - you show your teammates that you are committed to them by dropping 40 pounds by September and being ready to be a force next year, or don't bother coming back. Which would leave us with what at C? As I and others have also said before, not going full court press on Paschal Chukwu was an epic mistake. I don’t think anybody was beating Providence for Pashal… Cooley was all over that kid way before anyone else.. |
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Feb 28, 2014 12:38:34 GMT -5
That's crazy. You act like this team has a host of bigs that are underplayed - the only player to see more time would have been Hayes. People are overrating Bradley Hayes based on a few minutes playing time - just like they overrated Vee Sanford and Jerelle Benimon based on a couple of baskets versus Syracuse when they were freshmen. I wasn't really talking about Hayes at all. III himself has alluded to the adjustment it took to dealing with Smith not being there when the team had prepared to play with him for most of the season. I think it is far from clear that the early season Josh Smith team was superior to the current team as it has developed since the Michigan State game. My point is that if the words "Josh Smith" had never been uttered by a Georgetown coach, player, or fan, there are very good reasons to believe this team would already have an NCAA ticket punched. Agree with Big Dog. Let's ask the question, what game don't we win if Josh isn't there first semester? I can't think of one. His best game was the first one against Oregon, a loss. So we wouldn't be worse playing without him all year and getting the rotation set. It would all be upside. Not to say we would definitely be better than 7-9, but it's hard to argue we'd be worse. |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 28, 2014 12:58:21 GMT -5
I wasn't really talking about Hayes at all. III himself has alluded to the adjustment it took to dealing with Smith not being there when the team had prepared to play with him for most of the season. I think it is far from clear that the early season Josh Smith team was superior to the current team as it has developed since the Michigan State game. My point is that if the words "Josh Smith" had never been uttered by a Georgetown coach, player, or fan, there are very good reasons to believe this team would already have an NCAA ticket punched. Agree with Big Dog. Let's ask the question, what game don't we win if Josh isn't there first semester? I can't think of one. His best game was the first one against Oregon, a loss. So we wouldn't be worse playing without him all year and getting the rotation set. It would all be upside. Not to say we would definitely be better than 7-9, but it's hard to argue we'd be worse. I don't see the reasoning for the notion that if Josh Smith had never transferred to Georgetown that we would have been a better team and we would have better record now. I realize that the coaching staff may be "prepared" for the season by relying on Smith as a key player, and that plan would have been different, but would that have yielded more wins? Maybe, but I'm doubtful. The reason I am doubtful is because we would have had the same personnel, even if Smith never transferred. We would still be Starks, DSR, a bunch of role players, and a disappointing front court. It's the same personnel. The problem is that this is a flawed team. The people stating that we should be 2nd or 3rd in the Big East are not looking at the reality - which is that we are not a very good team with limited talent. That's not a knock - these guys work hard, play hard, and give it their all even when the circumstances are difficult. It's just a limitation that would have existed regardless of whether Josh Smith was on this team. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2014 13:14:33 GMT -5
The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that Josh Smith royally screwed us single-handedly out of being an NCAA lock by now. There is no doubt in my mind that if Smith never suits up for the Hoyas, we never wind up in a position where the bottom falls out when he was lost. Other bigs would have gotten more time early in the year, and the team would have played more like it is playing now. By being around for a while first before disappearing, he completely destroyed us. That's crazy. You act like this team has a host of bigs that are underplayed - the only player to see more time would have been Hayes. People are overrating Bradley Hayes based on a few minutes playing time - just like they overrated Vee Sanford and Jerelle Benimon based on a couple of baskets versus Syracuse when they were freshmen. There's a big difference between Benimon/Sanford and Hayes. Hayes is a 7 footer. What we need from him is completely different than the skill set we needed from the first two. There's no overrating the difference his mere height makes in a game. Center is a unique position, and we're so deficient in bigs this season that I would have wanted to give anyone a chance. Last night Hayes showed that he can move effectively, make good decisions and handle the ball well. Big men take time to develop and now I'm rethinking JT3's entire development strategy with having this guy nailed to the bench all season because we were under the assumption he couldnt walk and chew gum at the same time. |
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Feb 28, 2014 15:17:26 GMT -5
Agree with Big Dog. Let's ask the question, what game don't we win if Josh isn't there first semester? I can't think of one. His best game was the first one against Oregon, a loss. So we wouldn't be worse playing without him all year and getting the rotation set. It would all be upside. Not to say we would definitely be better than 7-9, but it's hard to argue we'd be worse. I don't see the reasoning for the notion that if Josh Smith had never transferred to Georgetown that we would have been a better team and we would have better record now. I realize that the coaching staff may be "prepared" for the season by relying on Smith as a key player, and that plan would have been different, but would that have yielded more wins? Maybe, but I'm doubtful. The reason I am doubtful is because we would have had the same personnel, even if Smith never transferred. We would still be Starks, DSR, a bunch of role players, and a disappointing front court. It's the same personnel. The problem is that this is a flawed team. The people stating that we should be 2nd or 3rd in the Big East are not looking at the reality - which is that we are not a very good team with limited talent. That's not a knock - these guys work hard, play hard, and give it their all even when the circumstances are difficult. It's just a limitation that would have existed regardless of whether Josh Smith was on this team. Agree with this. However, I feel that Smith's recruitment was a mistake in terms of the "fit" with the other players on the team. People tend to focus on offense, but that is 1/3rd of the role of the center. Defense and rebounding (and passing in the JT III system) are equally important. Smith offers nothing on defense and was a poor rebounder. He can pass well. In condition he might be a monster but he is not in condition and I doubt he ever will address that problem in time to contribute to this team. So at best it was a wash, though I will admit he was better than the alternatives. The simple truth is that the Hoyas have rarely been strong or deep at the center position in recent years. Monroe was more a power forward. Ditto for Vaughn, though he was serviceable. Sims had one strong season. Other than that it was really all the way back to Hibbert when we last excelled at the 5 position. |
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 28, 2014 15:58:12 GMT -5
I suspect that JTIII had too much confidence that Smith would work hard enough to lose the weight and get back to being the "monster" on both ends and on the boards that made him such a prized recruit out of high school. That's why I feel that losing weight should be a condition of Josh's return in the fall.
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