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Post by strummer8526 on Feb 3, 2013 10:35:18 GMT -5
Does anybody else agree with me that a) Whittington's absence forced JTIII to give minutes faster than he wanted to players like DSR and to focus the offense more on Starks and Porter asserting themselves without worrying about how many passes we made before doing so, and b) the fact that it required a player suspension for III to find out that doing this could be successful, is a mild indictment of III's historical reluctance to trust young players. On the contrary. I believe the post-Greg play demonstrates that III is not the stubborn coach some have made him out to be but one who adjusts to a situation presented to him. This may have been his best coaching stretch in a very long time. Just look at the players on the court and ask youself: man for man, is this a tournament team? I think the answer is no but, as a team, they are a tournament team, thanks to some great coaching and players responding. But the original point, which I agree with, is that it took LOSING a player for III to realize that he had a combination of guys that would play better than the squad was with Whit. III has always been too stubborn to give young guys a chance, and if Greg hadn't been suspended, I don't think we would have ever discovered some of the talents we had on our bench.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Feb 3, 2013 11:18:14 GMT -5
Hoyaholic, this is Georgetown basketball where the delusional becomes reality every year. You probably would have said the same about Hibbert, Simms. Nate is a very intelligent basketball player. There are teams in the NBA that would love his work ethics. Of course--again--we are talking after next year.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 3, 2013 11:23:41 GMT -5
Just like St. Johns looked good because of their weak Big East run, the Hoyas and fans should recognize we are on our easy part of the schedule. Are you counting Louisville and Notre Dame @ South Bend as part of that "easy part of the schedule"?
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 3, 2013 11:23:46 GMT -5
Does anybody else agree with me that a) Whittington's absence forced JTIII to give minutes faster than he wanted to players like DSR and to focus the offense more on Starks and Porter asserting themselves without worrying about how many passes we made before doing so, and b) the fact that it required a player suspension for III to find out that doing this could be successful, is a mild indictment of III's historical reluctance to trust young players. Even in victory people subtly bash JTIII. This RDFitis is contagious! If you look at it, JTII was already bringing in Moses before the Whittington suspension. And he also said we would be going 10 deep at the beginning of this season. (Though the JTIII Haters said that wouldn't happen and that it would stay a 7 man rotation). And none of these guys he's playing with Whittington gone are "young". Bowen, Moses, Caprio have been in the system for 3 years. On top of that JTIII hasn't hesitated starting a freshman if they are ready (Otto Porter, Greg Monroe).
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 3, 2013 11:27:19 GMT -5
DSR and Jabril have been getting more minutes with Whitt gone.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Feb 3, 2013 11:30:52 GMT -5
Just Cos, Sorry, pal, you just made my headache worst with all that rambling. Ps. stick to one point at a time.
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 3, 2013 11:31:05 GMT -5
DSR and Jabril have been getting more minutes with Whitt gone. They were already playing though. It's not like they were "discovered" for talents that JTIII didn't know they had.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 3, 2013 11:33:40 GMT -5
Big Dog's comments should not be taken as just criticizing III, but as an observation of two scenarios for the lack of playing time for Bowen and Moses. I think most of us ad accepted the theory that Bowen and Moses just were not showing III enough in practice to warrant his trust to let them play, that begs the question "How much of his practice does he use for evaluation instead of preparation of a game plan for the next opponent?" If 95 percent of practice is making sure that the starters are getting to the right spots on defense(offense should be much easy to prepare game plan) then I can see starters getting most if not all minutes of practice time. It is frustrating for us that players with scholarships are getting as much time if not less than players who are walk ons.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 3, 2013 11:34:04 GMT -5
DSR and Jabril have been getting more minutes with Whitt gone. They were already playing though. It's not like they were "discovered" for talents that JTIII didn't know they had. My point is their minutes jumped significantly and they have been in the system less than 3 years.
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 3, 2013 11:35:05 GMT -5
And hopefully Caprio won't play anymore meaningful minutes. He's just not at the caliber for Big East play to play outside of garbage time.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 3, 2013 11:36:13 GMT -5
I think most of us ad accepted the theory that Bowen and Moses just were not showing III enough in practice to warrant his trust to let them play But is this theory true? It hasn't been verified.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Feb 3, 2013 11:36:23 GMT -5
Calhoya, couldn't agree with you more. Jabril is even better than Michael Grahm in that he can really get off the floor.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 3, 2013 11:40:25 GMT -5
And hopefully Caprio won't play anymore meaningful minutes. He's just not at the caliber for Big East play to play outside of garbage time. It's a matter of popinion, but 16 minutes in 8 BE games is not meaningful minutes (12 of those were against Seton Hall and 1 yesterday).
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 3, 2013 11:43:34 GMT -5
Big Dog's comments should not be taken as just criticizing III, but as an observation of two scenarios for the lack of playing time for Bowen and Moses. I think most of us ad accepted the theory that Bowen and Moses just were not showing III enough in practice to warrant his trust to let them play, that begs the question "How much of his practice does he use for evaluation instead of preparation of a game plan for the next opponent?" If 95 percent of practice is making sure that the starters are getting to the right spots on defense(offense should be much easy to prepare game plan) then I can see starters getting most if not all minutes of practice time. It is frustrating for us that players with scholarships are getting as much time if not less than players who are walk ons. Moses started coming in because Hopkins has been atrocious. Not because Whittington got suspended. So the only "revelation" because of Whittington's suspension would be Bowen. For him I think confidence was an issue and getting a little more PT without the fear of being yanked has done wonders.
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 3, 2013 11:46:43 GMT -5
And hopefully Caprio won't play anymore meaningful minutes. He's just not at the caliber for Big East play to play outside of garbage time. It's a matter of popinion, but 16 minutes in 8 BE games is not meaningful minutes (12 of those were against Seton Hall and 1 yesterday). Well one he's a walk on which is an indication of his talent level. And too just watching his movement he moves rather awkwardly. And his 3pt foul at the end of the half really almost turned the tied and let St. Johns back into the game. Against a better team we can't afford to have someone who is going to be overwhelmed during a meaningful part of the game.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Feb 3, 2013 11:55:14 GMT -5
Big Dog's comments should not be taken as just criticizing III, but as an observation of two scenarios for the lack of playing time for Bowen and Moses. I think most of us ad accepted the theory that Bowen and Moses just were not showing III enough in practice to warrant his trust to let them play, that begs the question "How much of his practice does he use for evaluation instead of preparation of a game plan for the next opponent?" If 95 percent of practice is making sure that the starters are getting to the right spots on defense(offense should be much easy to prepare game plan) then I can see starters getting most if not all minutes of practice time. It is frustrating for us that players with scholarships are getting as much time if not less than players who are walk ons. Moses started coming in because Hopkins has been atrocious. Not because Whittington got suspended. So the only "revelation" because of Whittington's suspension would be Bowen. For him I think confidence was an issue and getting a little more PT without the fear of being yanked has done wonders. Sorry, this is wrong. Whitt's suspension has led to increased minutes (I'd bet, without checking), larger roles, and more assertive play for DSR and Jabril, with great results, as well as a green light for Otto to be "the Man" without having to worry about another top-flight athlete playing the same position getting his share of touches.
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on Feb 3, 2013 12:00:29 GMT -5
I believe III was married to who he thought was his best five; Whitt goes out and his 6th best player steps into start. Next man up. I wish Hayes and Domingo could better grasp the offense and get stronger quicker to be in the rotation.
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 3, 2013 12:03:22 GMT -5
Moses started coming in because Hopkins has been atrocious. Not because Whittington got suspended. So the only "revelation" because of Whittington's suspension would be Bowen. For him I think confidence was an issue and getting a little more PT without the fear of being yanked has done wonders. Sorry, this is wrong. Whitt's suspension has led to increased minutes (I'd bet, without checking), larger roles, and more assertive play for DSR and Jabril, with great results, as well as a green light for Otto to be "the Man" without having to worry about another top-flight athlete playing the same position getting his share of touches. Jabril has always been good and has been playing good minutes. It shouldn't be a surprise that he is doing well now. Same thing with DSR. It's not like DSR has been on fire anyway but he was a top recruit, we saw glimpses of that in the first game. And we saw what Otto could do last year. The idea that somehow JTIII had his head in the sand on these guys abilities till the fortuitous suspension of Whit is not correct.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 3, 2013 12:03:53 GMT -5
It's a matter of popinion, but 16 minutes in 8 BE games is not meaningful minutes (12 of those were against Seton Hall and 1 yesterday). Well one he's a walk on which is an indication of his talent level. And too just watching his movement he moves rather awkwardly. And his 3pt foul at the end of the half really almost turned the tied and let St. Johns back into the game. Against a better team we can't afford to have someone who is going to be overwhelmed during a meaningful part of the game. My point (based on facts) = he wasn't getting meaningful minutes. My opinion = He will not against better teams.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 3, 2013 12:12:26 GMT -5
Sorry, this is wrong. Whitt's suspension has led to increased minutes (I'd bet, without checking), larger roles, and more assertive play for DSR and Jabril, with great results, as well as a green light for Otto to be "the Man" without having to worry about another top-flight athlete playing the same position getting his share of touches. Jabril has always been good and has been playing good minutes. It shouldn't be a surprise that he is doing well now. Same thing with DSR. It's not like DSR has been on fire anyway but he was a top recruit, we saw glimpses of that in the first game. And we saw what Otto could do last year. The idea that somehow JTIII had his head in the sand on these guys abilities till the fortuitous suspension of Whit is not correct. Your original stance was: " And none of these guys he's playing with Whittington gone are "young". Bowen, Moses, Caprio have been in the system for 3 years." What we're saying is that DSR and Jabril, the younger ones, have been taking up the load of minutes after Whitt's suspension.
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