Top Ten Hoyas of JT3 Era So Far

[CAHoya07]

With Greg gone, I was thinking about who were the greatest Hoyas of the JT3 era so far, based on contributions while at Georgetown, legacy left behind, and, to a lesser extent, performance at the next level. I'll leave out my explanations for now, and I will admit that I had a hard time ranking a few players, for which I am sure I will get some flack. Nevertheless, without further adieu:

1. Jeff Green, 2004-07
2. Roy Hibbert, 2004-08
3. Greg Monroe, 2008-10
4. Jonathan Wallace, 2004-08
5. DaJuan Summers, 2006-09
6. Patrick Ewing, Jr., 2006-08
7. Brandon Bowman, 2002-06
8. Ashanti Cook, 2002-06
9. Jessie Sapp, 2005-2009
10. Darrel Owens, 2002-06

Honorable Mention I (because they will be somewhere on the list after next season): Austin Freeman; Chris Wright.

Honorable Mention II (for exemplary team spirit): Tyler Crawford, 2004-08.

Discuss.

[sweetness]

Good list. Wallace is definitely #3 in my mind. Also I think Monroe needs to be lower and Sapp higher.

[theexorcist]

I think that Austin and Chris probably beat out Jessie and DJ already.

The fun discussions are Wallace versus Monroe and Bowman versus Summers. Do you pick talent (Monroe) over success (Wallace)?

For Bowman versus Summers (I can't see how Bowman ranks below Patrick Ewing, Jr, who was mainly a sixth man), I'm tending towards Bowman.

For Bowman

[gujake]

Fun list. I think my list might actually be the same as yours, though it sort of depends on exactly what the criteria are.

Pat is a tough one, I think. He likely did not contribute as much as Bowman, for example, simply because Bowman was arguably the best player on the team for the first year and played way more minutes. But I think you could certainly make the argument that Pat was the better player.

[CAHoya07]

Yeah, I think you're right, Bowman should be ahead of Ewing, Jr. He played four years vs. two for Ewing, was a starter and filled up the stat sheet more. I initially went with Ewing because of intangibles, his Sixth Man of the Year award, and because he was drafted and Bowman wasn't.

Now, Bowman vs. Summers, that is a tough one for me. Essentially I went with Summers because he was drafted, but there is a very good argument for Bowman here.

I made the list just off the top of my head with little deep thought, so I'll probably make some revisions. I think I may have been thinking a little too much about who got drafted, instead of who was truly the better college player and did the most for Georgetown. Longer elapsed time also makes you forget just how important a player like Bowman was for us.

However, I think I'd still pick Monroe over Wallace. Monroe could take over a game at times (though, fairly or unfairly, not as much as we all wanted him to). Wallace was usually just solid and could heat up from three, but did not have that "dominant" quality. Even in just two years, Monroe was a better player.

[jerseyhoya34]

Great thread idea. My list would switch Cook and Bowman - a minor change. When I look at the 2006 season, which is pretty much the only one in their careers with team achievements worth further discussion, I think Cook contributed more to the team's success than Bowman did. Every big game - Cook was there and solid. He played well in the NCAA's, particularly during the first two rounds IIRC, punctuated by the rare dunk at the end of the tOSU game.

Bowman, well, was good and bad. He was there for some of the big games (Duke comes to mind), but, for every Duke, there was a Florida, which is not a "big game" for us because Bowman shot 5-15 from the field.

Otherwise, I think the list is spot on. My gut wants me to switch Jon and Greg but my head tells me hell no. JW has to be one of the top 15 players in the "Modern Era" - athleticism be damned, and whether his game is "phat" be damned.

[CAHoya07]

I think the criteria should be twofold:

1) Basketball accomplishments on the court (stats, awards, etc.)
2) Contributions to the Georgetown name and legacy (clutch performances, team success, NBA success)

The second category is more subjective. I included NBA success because success in the league can still make Georgetown look good. This also skews towards players who stayed longer, since they had more opportunities to make lasting contributions. But I think the first category is still the most important - simply, who was the better player. For this reason, I'd take Monroe over Wallace.

Now, Monroe vs. Hibbert - I think Monroe may even have a slight edge over Hibbert in terms of who was the better player while in college, but Hibbert jumps ahead because of his lasting contributions to the Georgetown name - namely team success (2 Big East regular season championships, 1 Big East Regular Season Championship, 3 NCAA Tournament appearances, Sweet 16, Final Four) and clutch performance.

Hibbert's most clutch moment? A game-winning three-pointer vs. Big East rival UConn (could also be his buzzer beating dunk vs. Notre Dame his freshman year). Monroe's most clutch moment? A game-winning lay-up vs. non-conference foe Temple. Advantage: Hibbert, though Green, Wallace, and even Sapp arguably have better performances in the clutch than Hibbert.

Other clutch performances to consider: Summers' game-winning three to capture the Big East regular season title in 2008; Ewing's block to save the game at West Virginia in 2008.

P.S. Come to think of it, maybe "clutch performance" is what has been lacking 2009-10. There were a lot more clutch moments in big games from 2005-08. Which means we are hopefully due for some in 2011. ;D

[HoyaSinceBirth]

It depends on the criteria. Individual accomplishments vs. team accomplishments. Talent vs. intangibles. All I know is there is a large drop off in my book between Jeff, Roy and Greg. I don't think Greg is in the top 25 hoyas of all time. And with team accomplishment's it's hard to measure how much a certain player contributed to that success versus another.

If I'm building a list based soley on talent/skill or building a list like I was building a team Greg's definitely high on the list. But If I'm making a list based on success and fond memories Greg's not making my top 10.

[TBird41]

Apr 19, 2010 15:52:46 GMT -5 CAHoya07 said:

I think the criteria should be twofold:

1) Basketball accomplishments on the court (stats, awards, etc.)
2) Contributions to the Georgetown name and legacy (clutch performances, team success, NBA success)

The second category is more subjective. I included NBA success because success in the league can still make Georgetown look good. This also skews towards players who stayed longer, since they had more opportunities to make lasting contributions. But I think the first category is still the most important - simply, who was the better player. For this reason, I'd take Monroe over Wallace.

Now, Monroe vs. Hibbert - I think Monroe may even have a slight edge over Hibbert in terms of who was the better player while in college, but Hibbert jumps ahead because of his lasting contributions to the Georgetown name - namely team success (2 Big East regular season championships, 1 Big East Regular Season Championship, 3 NCAA Tournament appearances, Sweet 16, Final Four) and clutch performance.

Hibbert's most clutch moment? A game-winning three-pointer vs. Big East rival UConn. Monroe's most clutch moment? A game-winning lay-up vs. non-conference foe Temple. Advantage: Hibbert, though Green, Wallace, and even Sapp arguably have better performances in the clutch than Hibbert.

Other clutch performances to consider: Summers' game-winning three to capture the Big East regular season title in 2008; Ewing's block to save the game at West Virginia in 2008.

Don't forget about Roy's game winning dunk against Notre Dame to expunge the Esherick era's legacy of crunch time failures.

You remember that one, right? Court Rush/ Three Fist/ What a Giddy Sight!

;D

[CAHoya07]

Haha, yeah I just remembered it after I posted it, so I added it on edit. We're on the same page here, great minds think alike. ;D

[HoyaSinceBirth]

Based solely on the second category greg is not top 10.( can't include NBA success since as of now he has none)

[CAHoya07]

Apr 19, 2010 16:08:10 GMT -5 HoyaSinceBirth said:

Based solely on the second category greg is not top 10.( can't include NBA success since as of now he has none)

As of right now, I think you're right. However, I think Greg will have a long NBA career (he may not be a star, but he will have a long career), which will push him up from where he is now in the all-time Hoya standings.

Still, he will never be ahead of Jeff or Roy in my book because of the scant success the team had while he was here. We will always look back on Greg Monroe's two years at Georgetown and wonder what could have been.

[Boz]

Current players excepted, aren't these pretty much the only 10 to choose from?

Didn't everyone else transfer out?

;D

[daytonahoya31]

I would drop Summers below both Ewing and Bowman.

He mentally checked out of last season, and a huge reason for our struggles rested at his feet for his utter lack of leadership

[FLHoya]

Apr 19, 2010 16:38:01 GMT -5 Boz said:

Current players excepted, aren't these pretty much the only 10 to choose from?

Didn't everyone else transfer out?

;D

Because I know you're all wondering, the players not in CA's list that didn't transfer and aren't still on the roster:

Ramell Ross
Amadou Kilkenny-Diaw
Sead Dizdarevic
Kenny Izzo
Bryon Jansen
Ryan Beal

[SFHoya99]

I don't think Monroe's career comes anywhere close to Roy's, in terms of Georgetown.

Better career stats: Roy.
Better team success: Roy.
Better top year: I'd say Roy, but it is close. Not as good a rebounder, not as many steals, not as many assists, but a much more efficient scorer, a superior defender and didn't turn the ball over as much.

I am not trying to say that Greg, through four years, would not have had a better career than Roy. But he was here for two and Roy for four.

[lichoya68]

in my humble opinion TIME WILL TELL AND WE WILL SEE just my thought on the list aint over yet

[the_way]

1. Jeff Green
2. Jonathan Wallace
3. Roy Hibbert
4. Ewing, Jr.
5. Ashanti Cook
6. Austin Freeman
7. Greg Monroe
8. Brandon Bowman
9. Dajuan Summers
10. Darrell Owens

[strummer8526]

1. Jeff Green
2. Roy Hibbert
3. Jonathan Wallace
4. Austin Freeman
5. Brandon Bowman
6. Pat Ewing, Jr.
7. Greg Monroe
8. Ashanti Cook
9. Darrell Owens
10. Jesse Sapp

[tonyparker]

Ewing Jr. over Monroe blows my mind. I really liked Pat as a player, but he is/was not nearly as good a player as Monroe in any facet of the game. He is more athletic, but the reason he is not in the NBA is that the dude is not really that good of a basketball player. If Greg had Jeff and Roy standing next to him he would've been unreal.