SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 19, 2010 20:27:40 GMT -5
The real debate at the top is between Jeff and Roy.
Standings to date for me:
1. Jeff Green 2. Roy Hibbert 3. Jon Wallace (incredibly hard to place. As a complementary player he was devastating. But if he had to play Greg's role...) 4. Austin Freeman (cheating knowing he'll be here next year) 5. Greg Monroe
6-10. Ashanti Cook, Brandon Bowman, Chris Wright, Patrick Ewing, Jr., Jessie Sapp
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by the_way on Apr 19, 2010 21:10:59 GMT -5
Ewing Jr. over Monroe blows my mind. I really liked Pat as a player, but he is/was not nearly as good a player as Monroe in any facet of the game. He is more athletic, but the reason he is not in the NBA is that the dude is not really that good of a basketball player. If Greg had Jeff and Roy standing next to him he would've been unreal. Impact. Leadership, intangibles, mental toughness. versatility. Shoot, during the year Ewing, Jr. had to sit out he was great in practice and really pushed our starters on that team, the team that went to the Sweet Sixteen and gave the eventual Champions Florida a good match. Ewing was versatile, could play the 3 or the 4, and even some 5. he could play DEFENSE. he had energy and was tough. he wasn't complacent. Greg was none of those things. Greg had no impact on his team. His presence made no difference. Greg wouldn't have Roy and Jeff standing next to him because Greg would be on the bench. He'd be a fish out of water with that era of Georgetown basketball. They didn't waste time crying to officials back then nor did they get bounced in the 1st round of the NIT or NCAA. They just got the job done. They got W's. They left a legacy behind and set a standard of excellence of Georgetown basketball. A legacy and standard that Greg's basketball teams fell way short of with him at the forefront.
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harlemhoya
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Post by harlemhoya on Apr 19, 2010 21:23:28 GMT -5
Next year is a big year for the_way and JTIII
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Post by HometownHoya on Apr 19, 2010 22:04:21 GMT -5
Doesn't Ewing Jr. have to be 6th since he won the only ever 6th man award?
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CAHoya07
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Post by CAHoya07 on Apr 19, 2010 22:25:29 GMT -5
Ewing was versatile, could play the 3 or the 4, and even some 5. he could play DEFENSE. he had energy and was tough. he wasn't complacent. Greg was none of those things. Greg had no impact on his team. His presence made no difference.Really? Greg was versatile. He could pass, he could rebound, he could take it to the hole. Greg made a huge impact. The offense ran through him most of the time. We tended to struggle on offense when he wasn't in. Say what you will about his "passiveness" or ability to take over games when it mattered, there is a reason why Greg will be a lottery pick after two seasons. He was an impact player - to say he made no difference is comical. We were just inconsistent with him, and did not win when it mattered most. On a side note, I tend to either wholeheartedly agree or vociferously disagree with the_way's posts. There is no middle ground. ;D
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b52legend
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Post by b52legend on Apr 19, 2010 22:25:53 GMT -5
1. Roy Hibbert (Gets the nod because 1) 4-year player and 2) Big Man-U legacy reestablished) 2. Jeff Green 3. Brandon Bowman (leader of senior class that brought us back) 4. Jonathan Wallace 5. Greg Monroe 6. Jessie Sapp (hated his senior year - but straight onions before that) 7. Ashanti Cook 8. Owens 9. Patrick Ewing Jr. 10. DaJuan Summers (huge fan of Summers - but never felt the love of the jersey)
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Apr 19, 2010 22:26:57 GMT -5
b52 - I think your selection of #3 and #4 in that order is against the rules of the board. Just brutal. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) I guess I don't see Bowman as the leader of the class of 2006. Looking back at it, it seemed like JT3 had the same love/hate relationship with Bobo that the fans did. There were times when I think Coach wanted to pull him and couldn't because we didn't have much on the bench. Ashanti never really wowed like Bowman could with the high flying stuff, but their numbers were comparable that season. I give Cook the edge based on efficiency and the (very) soft variable of clutchness. That being said, to put Bobo ahead of JWall...blasphemy. The East Regional tape from 2007 says hi. Like the bump you gave Owens. He is underrated in hindsight.
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b52legend
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Post by b52legend on Apr 19, 2010 22:39:37 GMT -5
Ambassador - I hear you, but you are ignoring Bowman's contributions prior to his senior year. I guess this was not clarified in the rules, but I included those years in my numbers. In short - he was a stud...
2002-2003 GTWN 23.9 7.6 4.5 1.5 2.1 .70 1.1 .4 2.4 .383 .740 .182 1.04 2003-2004 GTWN 34.7 15.9 8.1 1.9 3.7 .50 2.0 1.3 2.6 .428 .701 .323 1.19 2004-2005 GTWN 33.3 15.1 6.1 2.2 2.3 .93 1.3 .9 2.6 .501 .714 .365 1.41
His shooing % in 03 and 04 was crappy, but the team had 0 options and Bowman fought every night. I was in school during the 03-04 year, and Bowman was pretty much all the team had going for it. Averaged 16 pts, 8 brds for the year for a terrible team. In 04-05, JT3s first year, he was again unquestionably the leader of the team, putting up 15, 6, and 2. In his senior year, you are right, he was more hit or miss, but I credit a lot of that to his maturity to be able to step aside and let some of the younger players, Green and Hibbs, and the emergence of Owens as a difference maker, do more of the work. Along the lines of Wallace - I just loved that Bowman really gave us everything he had - at a time when it would have been easy for a player to pack it in.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Apr 20, 2010 9:32:13 GMT -5
1.) Jeff 2.) Roy 3.) Jon 4.) Greg 5.) Brandon 6.) Pat, Jr. 7.) Austin 8.) Ashanti 9.) Sapp 10.)Chris
When we do this next year, I'm certain Chris and Austin will be higher on my list.
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hoyabinx
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Post by hoyabinx on Apr 20, 2010 9:52:28 GMT -5
1) Wallace 2) Green 3) Hibbert 4) Austin 5) Ewing Jr. 6) Sapp 7) Monroe 8) Wright 9) Bowman 10) Amadou
This is based purely on my subjective "like" factor. I don't think I will enjoy watching any player more than I enjoyed watching Wallace play.
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Post by lancasterhoyafan on Apr 20, 2010 9:58:50 GMT -5
1. Green 2. Hibbert 3. Monroe 4. Summers 5. Bowman 6. Freeman 7. Wright 8. Ewing Jr. 9. Clark 10. Sapp
In that order
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757hoyafan
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Post by 757hoyafan on Apr 20, 2010 14:32:22 GMT -5
1) Green 2) Wallace 3) Hibbs 4) Summers 5) Monroe 6) Freeman 7) Sapp 8) CW 9) Baby Pat X) BoBo, AC & DO
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Apr 20, 2010 17:44:31 GMT -5
Ewing was versatile, could play the 3 or the 4, and even some 5. he could play DEFENSE. he had energy and was tough. he wasn't complacent. Greg was none of those things. Greg had no impact on his team. His presence made no difference.Really? Greg was versatile. He could pass, he could rebound, he could take it to the hole. Greg made a huge impact. The offense ran through him most of the time. We tended to struggle on offense when he wasn't in. Say what you will about his "passiveness" or ability to take over games when it mattered, there is a reason why Greg will be a lottery pick after two seasons. He was an impact player - to say he made no difference is comical. We were just inconsistent with him, and did not win when it mattered most. On a side note, I tend to either wholeheartedly agree or vociferously disagree with the_way's posts. There is no middle ground. ;D Don't you get it, he hates Greg. He probably like Don Reid more than he likes Greg.
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Post by youngjeezy on Apr 23, 2010 23:07:45 GMT -5
1. Green 2. Hibbert 3. Monroe 4. Summers 5. Bowman 6. Freeman 7. Wright 8. Ewing Jr. 9. Clark 10. Sapp In that order no j-wall? ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png)
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harlemhoya
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Post by harlemhoya on Apr 23, 2010 23:21:31 GMT -5
Really? Greg was versatile. He could pass, he could rebound, he could take it to the hole. Greg made a huge impact. The offense ran through him most of the time. We tended to struggle on offense when he wasn't in. Say what you will about his "passiveness" or ability to take over games when it mattered, there is a reason why Greg will be a lottery pick after two seasons. He was an impact player - to say he made no difference is comical. We were just inconsistent with him, and did not win when it mattered most. On a side note, I tend to either wholeheartedly agree or vociferously disagree with the_way's posts. There is no middle ground. ;D Don't you get it, he hates Greg. He probably like Don Reid more than he likes Greg. He likes the Gary Williams type ball player
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thebin
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Post by thebin on Apr 26, 2010 11:31:28 GMT -5
My own top 5...
1. Jeff Green, 2004-07 2. Roy Hibbert, 2004-08 3. Jonathan Wallace, 2004-08 (Still my favorite Hoya of all time) 4. Jessie Sapp, 2005-2009 5. Austin Freeman
I so badly wanted to slot Jwall at #2, but just couldn't given Roy's selfless decision to come back when i would have taken the money. I don't punish Greg for taking the money- it just hurts too much to have him up there with the underwhelming results-to-talent ratio he has on his two year resume. It's like we won the lottery but the jackpot was the smallest in history by far. Monroe had help too, the team wasn't all him, and not a single NCAA win in two seasons? A player of his caliber should have brought a couple of NCAA wins playing with 4 stiffs, and like I said, he didn't even have that excuse.
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mapei
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Post by mapei on Apr 26, 2010 14:32:13 GMT -5
1. Green 2a. Wallace 2b. Roy 4. Greg 5. Bowman 6. Cook 7. Freeman 8. DaJuan 9. CW 10. Jessie
PE2 can be first alternate, a role he played superbly during his 2 years as a Hoya.
Free & Chris have opportunities to move up based on next season.
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skyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by skyhoya on Apr 27, 2010 9:26:18 GMT -5
The think we really need to look at players that JTIII actually recruited and brought into the program. Jeff and Roy were fabulous leftovers from the previous era and blossomed under JTIII, especially Roy coming from a project to a top 20 draft pick.
That said the top Hoyas of the JTIII era are: 1. J Wallace 2. G. Monroe 3. D. Summers 4. J Sapp 5. A. Freeman 6. C. Wright
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 27, 2010 9:54:54 GMT -5
Jeff and Roy were originally recruited by Esherick, for sure, but they weren't "leftovers from the previous era" (though I agree on the fabulous). Neither spent a day under Esherick, and I have no idea why who recruited them somehow has so much relevance relative to who, you know, coached them.
Then again, the number of people ranking Roy Hibbert anywhere but #1 or #2 is driving me nuts as well.
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skyhoya
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Post by skyhoya on Apr 27, 2010 10:07:05 GMT -5
One can evaluate a coach for his effectiveness for the complete process. That includes who they recruit, what they do with what they inherit and how they develop the talent. Weis had a great start at ND with primarily the previous coach's recruit's. He then recruited some the top recruiting classes on paper, only to have little success.
Recruiting turns out to be about 50% of the game, what you do with it is the other 50%.
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