RDF
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Post by RDF on Jun 7, 2010 10:56:20 GMT -5
you sound like phil crying about the refs. It's only crying if it's NOT true. Every team has a crew that doesn't "care" for them--and why some of you continue to choose to ignore what Tim Donaghy has outed is beyond belief. Javie and his guys hated Iverson, Mauer and his guys hate Bryant--and it effects the games the players/their teams play. If you look above I stated my case about Mauer's crew prior to Finals--and I've repeatedly blasted him--dating back to early in decade--and specifically pointing out his bias against Bryant and Lakers--so it's not like this was a reaction to last night's game. My guess--Bavetta and his guys will put screws to Celtics for a game--but I don't follow Boston as closely--so I don't know who the crew is that can't stand them or a player on their team. BTW--Phil Jackson was right to question the calls on Bryant. When you are the best player in the world--you usually don't get called for fouls that aren't existent---which 3 of his 5 were calls someone of his level shouldn't have been called for-because they were NOT fouls. Making it up by calling bad calls on Perkins or Glen Davis doesn't make up the difference--especially when Paul Pierce is allowed to continually fall down without being touched and draw phantom fouls.
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guru
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Post by guru on Jun 7, 2010 11:09:24 GMT -5
you sound like phil crying about the refs. It's only crying if it's NOT true. Every team has a crew that doesn't "care" for them--and why some of you continue to choose to ignore what Tim Donaghy has outed is beyond belief. Javie and his guys hated Iverson, Mauer and his guys hate Bryant--and it effects the games the players/their teams play. If you look above I stated my case about Mauer's crew prior to Finals--and I've repeatedly blasted him--dating back to early in decade--and specifically pointing out his bias against Bryant and Lakers--so it's not like this was a reaction to last night's game. My guess--Bavetta and his guys will put screws to Celtics for a game--but I don't follow Boston as closely--so I don't know who the crew is that can't stand them or a player on their team. BTW--Phil Jackson was right to question the calls on Bryant. When you are the best player in the world--you usually don't get called for fouls that aren't existent---which 3 of his 5 were calls someone of his level shouldn't have been called for-because they were NOT fouls. Making it up by calling bad calls on Perkins or Glen Davis doesn't make up the difference--especially when Paul Pierce is allowed to continually fall down without being touched and draw phantom fouls. Well if they weren't fouls, why would they get called on anyone? What does his status as best player in the world have to do with this, if in fact no foul was committed at all? The type of "logic" one has to apply to watch NBA games is one reason it's so easy for the vast majority of sports fans to ignore that league entirely.
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Jun 7, 2010 11:23:11 GMT -5
guru, I'm with you on that one. RDF and I have had similar discussions in the past. While I achnowledge that there is a sentiment to not have the refs decide the game that we would all probably agree with, I don't think that should mean that you protect the stars. We all know that the stars tend to get calls. That's just how it is, but we don't have to like or accept it. That being said, I missed most of the game last night, since I was at the Gator baseball game. I only really saw the 4th quarter. I think there was something like a minute and a half to go in the 3rd when I got home. So I can't comment on most of the fouls that were called earlier in the game. It was pretty clear however, that getting that 6th on Kobe was going to be very difficult. There was at least one time where there was contact and it could have easily been called. In fact, I would suggest that if it wasn't Bryand defending on the play and especially in that situation -- already having 5 fouls -- then we would have expected the call to go against the defender. The announcers kept talking about how Kobe was "smart" on that play and went "straight up." Well, we've heard of the priniciple of verticality and I actually like reffing that ascribes to that theory. But we've all also seen many, many times where the aggressor driving to the rim will get the call in that situation. EIther way, I just don't like the active idea of protecting the big stars while I understand, if not even agree with the idea passively.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Jun 7, 2010 13:18:32 GMT -5
3 of the 5 fouls were NOT fouls--and especially when you have a guy who is the best player in the sport. Sorry but that DOES MATTER--nobody tunes into games to watch Shannon Brown playing because Kobe Bryant got screwed on 3 fouls---the offensive foul where he didn't do anything other then have his head bump Ray Allen who was crowding him, the "Force out" that he didn't touch Rondo, and that BS call on top of key where he stood in front of Pierce and bumped him--the same call where Tony Allen and Pierce doubled and were physical was a no call on the other end.
If you don't think Bryant missing minutes matters--then we agree to disagree. Same thing with Ray Allen in Game 1---when it's the NBA Finals--it better be a blatant/obvious foul or you swallow the whistle.
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hoya95
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Post by hoya95 on Jun 7, 2010 14:22:01 GMT -5
I don't like the number of fouls called across the board either, and there are enough legitimate referee conspiracies to make Oliver Stone's head explode. But the Lakers had a lead at home with less than 4:00 to go, and they got crushed down the stretch. That seems to me to be the only important story of the game.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jun 7, 2010 17:33:51 GMT -5
Lakers went to the free throw line 50,000 more times than the Celtics and still lost! For the first three quarters every touch call was going the Lakers' way. So I don't want to hear anything about the refs helping out Boston. My favorite call was when Davis clearly blocked Bynum's shot but the refs had to bail Bynum out...AGAIN...by calling some phony foul. Its absurd how many whistles were blown. Sheldon Williams was so horrible in his two minutes on the floor that it leads me to believe if the Cs' big men get that much into fou trouble again Doc Rivers would rather have Nate Robinson manning the paint instead of calling Sheldon's number again. When you have a guy nailing jumpshots from 3--why the hell would you go to the FT line? Lakers were pounding the ball inside and drew fouls-it's a joke when fans bitch about fouls when one team is playing an inside game and other is shooting jumpshots. That Bynum call was awful--but it was a makeup for screwing Bryant over on the other end--he didnt touch Rondo--and that gave him his 4th foul. So Glen Davis gets screwed over while Kobe Bryant does--I'd call that a good trade off if I were a Boston fan. Paul Pierce often falls down due to being a subpar ball handler and he gets more calls then Bryant--without having Bryant's game. Why is that? Just think if you hate the Lakers, you see it one way and if you hate Boston--you see it another--but I have studied the screw jobs Ken Mauer and his boys put to Bryant time/time again--it's more then ironic. Who has a back to basket game for Boston? They drive/slash and kick. True but it seemed that all small and incidental contact against Gasol and Bynum was called these last two games. Maybe I don't expect the Cs to go to the free throw line as much but I certainly don't expect the Lakers to be getting such a huge benefit of the doubt every time one of their bigs missed a shot inside. It was appalling. And the Lakers weren't getting calls like that against the Suns or the Thunder, both of who are not on Boston's level defensively. And I counted three legit calls against Kobe. He and Phil need to stop complaining as if they are owed favortism by the refs. Refs don't swallow their whistle if Pierce drives and charges into someone. I saw more questionable calls going against Boston so for Phil to whine about the refs is nonsense. And tiring considering he does every time his team loses a game in the post season.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Jun 7, 2010 20:33:28 GMT -5
I don't like the number of fouls called across the board either, and there are enough legitimate referee conspiracies to make Oliver Stone's head explode. But the Lakers had a lead at home with less than 4:00 to go, and they got crushed down the stretch. That seems to me to be the only important story of the game. Yep, I agree with this. Despite the calls on Kobe, the Lakers were in a clear position to win the game down the stretch, and totally failed to execute. That's on them. Although I have to say, I find it amazing that the refs could go to replay on the ball Garnett clearly knocked out of bounds, and still completely blow the call. How is that possible? A few other thoughts: What is it with Odom and the Celtics? I don't know that he's played a decent playoff game against them yet, and the Lakers need him. Artest is definitely playing hard nosed defense on Pierce, but his offense last night was worse than abominable. It wasn't just that he missed shots and took bad shots, he overdribbled way, way too much, and that isn't exactly his forte. I love Rondo. I wish he played for a different team (like the Lakers :-)). His block on Fisher after overrunning the play was just a great defensive play - it reminded me of Jerry West, who used to regularly use his long arms to block shots from behind. Pierce is full of it. See you back in LA, Celtics.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Jun 8, 2010 15:14:14 GMT -5
Hey look, Stern sent Doc Rivers old pal Bill Kennedy to officiate Game 3. Guess this means we won't be seeing Kendrick Perkins in Game 4.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Jun 8, 2010 15:27:47 GMT -5
Hey look, Stern sent Doc Rivers old pal Bill Kennedy to officiate Game 3. Guess this means we won't be seeing Kendrick Perkins in Game 4. See--Jack gets it. This league is borderline insane for having their officials be FELONS (Ken Mauer included on that list) and yet they stay employed and Stern acts like nothing exists. Of course when you make $20 something million per year--guess you overlook any problem mentioned because life is beyond good. Every team has a crew/official that has it in for them. Watch how game is officiated. Does it always determine outcome? No--but it makes it a lot harder for the team with bias against it to win.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Jun 8, 2010 23:33:40 GMT -5
Pierce with foul trouble tonight---and Bennett Salvatore is in the building.
Stern is a JOKE for not doing something about these crooks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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jacko
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Post by jacko on Jun 9, 2010 2:19:51 GMT -5
I don't usually pay attention to refs' individual track records, but Salvatore is one that I do know as a fan of the 2006 Mavericks. Notice that he controlled stretches of the second half tonight with nasty touch fouls on both ends.
I'd be curious to see what everyone here thinks of the overuse of replay in the 4th. They overturned the calls and got them right in each case, but will this revolutionize the way the refs determine "out of bounds on Odom but he was fouled by Rondo so we'll split the difference and call it out on Rondo" type calls? I always tend to be the one yelling "IT'S A FOUL OR IT'S OUT OF BOUNDS ON THE OTHER TEAM, IT CAN'T BE NEITHER," so maybe I'll have my day.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Jun 9, 2010 9:11:45 GMT -5
Sorry, much as I would like to blame Salvatore and Kennedy, last night's loss falls squarely on Ray Allen and Paul Pierce. If those two have just bad games, and not awful games, the Celts pull it out. Credit is also due to Fisher and Odom, though I am still not sure why it is that First-Team All-Defense Rajon Rondo is unable to stop Fisher from going left - he has only been doing it for 14 years or so.
It's a shame to waste a great game from Garnett, it seems like he only has so many of those in him these days. Unfortunately, Sheed has also turned back into a pumpkin - his back is probably killing him, but he was simply unable to get up and down the floor, and his shot has abandoned him, too. I have faith that Ray will have another big game, and that Pierce will show up eventually, but this was a very important game and the Celts face a serious uphill climb.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Jun 9, 2010 11:47:47 GMT -5
D Fish is something else. He's hit a lot of big shots over the years, but I can't think of another time where he took over a game in the finals in the fourth quarter. I didn't care much for that last drive - if Farmar or Sasha had taken it in one on three with a four point lead and time winding down, I probably would be leading the lynching party - but hey, it's Fisher, so it's ok.
The refs got that Odom-Rondo play right. You can't call a foul based on viewing replay that you missed during live action.
Oh, and thanks, Lamar, for finally showing up - at least somewhat. You had better pick up your game if you want to make any appearances on Getting Stupid with the Kardashians during the summer.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Jun 10, 2010 23:22:39 GMT -5
1 play sums up Game 4
Tie game, 4th quarter of NBA Finals--and one player (Nate Robinson) dives on floor, desperate to get the ball, while another (Jordan Farmar) bends at waist and reaches for the ball. It was like watching old school Hoya ball vs the group that currently resides in DC--and it ended up how it should--with the team who sold out winning.
Great job by Doc Rivers rewarding/trusting his bench as they won the game.
Memo to Mark Jackson---KG is going to be more then happy to watch teammates do the work in the 4th Quarter--that has been/is/always will be his M.O. Hell he even got to ACT tough on sidelines like it was last year's postseason--which is what he loves to do.
Officials let players play tonight and Celtics bench adjusted and took game to Lakers. Bryant was only Laker to play as hard as Boston--and it showed and team who deserved to win--did.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jun 11, 2010 8:38:53 GMT -5
Really? No mention of this:
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jun 11, 2010 9:22:01 GMT -5
That is spectacular. Ed F. Rush takes the charge.
Any way we can arrange a similar gift for Curtis Shaw?
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on Jun 11, 2010 10:38:31 GMT -5
Or Ken Mauer, or Bennet Salvatore.....or John Cahill, or.......only like to see BRASS KNUCKLES used too.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 11, 2010 11:11:03 GMT -5
Really? No mention of this: WOW! No penalty for Pierce either I guess. Clearly, it was unintentional.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Jun 11, 2010 13:47:36 GMT -5
Agree with RDF, except I would include Gasol with Kobe. Nobody else.
The Lakers could have really used a healthy Bynum last night, and when Odom was asked to step up, he laid another Boston egg. But it wasn't just Lamar. There's lots of blame to go around.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on Jun 11, 2010 14:41:15 GMT -5
Agree with RDF, except I would include Gasol with Kobe. Nobody else. The Lakers could have really used a healthy Bynum last night, and when Odom was asked to step up, he laid another Boston egg. But it wasn't just Lamar. There's lots of blame to go around. Didn't include Gasol because it was only on offensive end--he stands and watches too much--just an awful help defender, and more physical it gets--Pau picks the end he's talented to battle--on boards/defensive end he was as bad as Odom. Farmar is guy who really should be embarrassed--when coaches look at the film it's not only going to be a play that irritates them--it'll show what led to the run that cost them game. Maybe he thinks he's too "pretty" but you sure aren't making a great case for playing time when you refuse to do the things that any player--but especially a reserve should be making.
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