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Post by JohnnyJones on Jan 1, 2010 14:11:24 GMT -5
The UAB that just lost to Virginia? The Florida that has lost about five games so far? Georgia Tech and Miami who haven't beaten anyone? Your comments are a joke, pretty much like your program the last eight years. Its one thing if a fan from a good team had talked some smack to us, but you have some balls to judge Gtown's team considering you are a fan of a team who probably hasn't even smelled an NCAA tourney since last century. Your program is so out of sorts the school was even too cheap to fire Stormin' Norman (does he ever not look angry on the sidelines) despite the fact he helped keep your Johnnies at the bottom of the BE all these years. III and Stormin' started in the Big East the same season. Compare III's results to your guy's. Nuff said. Fact is despite last season in which the Hoyas GAVE AWAY a game to your pathetic bunch and a week later seemed to have no enthusiasm in another loss to St John's, III has owned Norman. Your St John's team is not even as impressive as Old Dominion. Wow! Not sure how things got so hostile. I'm a friendly rival who has been posting here for a few years now just adding to discussion. Just because I don't think highly of Georgetown doesn't diminish anything that they have accomplished. I should have reiterated that they are certainly deserving of their rank at this point in the season but when I say I don't think they're top 25 I'm thinking at the end of the season. As for St. John's I'm not too focused on last year or last 10 years nor am I trying to compare them or our coaches to Georgetown's. I'm focused on the now and I think we have some talent. Enough talent to make some noise in the Big East this year. I think you and others here can admit the Johnnies have some solid weapons on the floor. Johnny -- do you think St. Johns will finish ahead of Georgetown in the BE regular season this year? |
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jan 1, 2010 14:19:05 GMT -5
Some thoughts on the game/team having only seen about 3 GU games --
1. As long as we get consistent play from our lead guard, we can beat anyone in the conference. Now, we won't necessarily beat everyone, but we give ourselves a shot as long as Chris makes his layups and does not force anything. I thought he made some masterful reads, except the midrange jumper he hit in the first half. I like the different look it gives us when he can break down a defense and we don't run through a full Princeton/Georgetown set. It keeps teams honest.
2. Typical Austin game. He did no harm but had a slow start and took some defensive possessions off. We need to get him more touches and shots.
3. The worst thing to happen to Jason last night was to hit the 3 on the first possession. He fell in love with it and missed his next 4 including some open ones. He'll do well to look for layups and midrange shots in the early going to find his legs. Hopefully just an aberration.
4. Vaughn seemed to get his in what I thought was a weaker game for him overall. The key for him, as always, is to shy away from the degree of difficulty stuff and stick with the back-to-the-basket hook moves and putbacks. He'll get 8-10 off those alone in most games. He gave us what was needed late at the line but we'll need 2 makes on some of those trips to the line. Still, a welcome improvement and continued evidence that Vern made a lazy decision.
5. It cannot be stated enough that we need to play more bench. I can understand the "we needed this one" line of thought, but it does not become any less salient as we hit January and February, and we'll need our legs then too. Greg had some fatigued takes late in the game that we won't be able to afford.
6. This game will look better now than it does in two months. I was not overly impressed by St. Johns and thought they made some shots that won't be made against another team where there is not as much rivalry/tradition/spirit. They still had a shot at us if they made more FT's, something that will be key this season in league play due to parity.
7. We need Henry to get better quickly. There will be games when Greg gets in foul trouble, so we'll need to make that rare Henry for Greg substitution or go small with Vaughn moving to the 5 and Hollis getting minutes at the 4. How things turn out in such a situation remains an open, yet troubling question.
8. 13 turnovers is a good number for this team all things considered. Unfortunately, we still seem to turn the ball over in bunches - 3 and 4 at a time.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jan 1, 2010 14:26:31 GMT -5
Jeez what is the kid supposed to say? "I think we're an inferior team and we should have lost."  Well that would've been the truth. St. John's has talent. But they're stupid. Which makes sense with the quality of their schools academics. Just terrible terrible basketball IQ. If st. John's didn't hit a bunch of contested 3's to get back into the game they would've lost by 15+. St. john's was lucky to be in the game not unlucky to not win. St. John's fans need to stop talking trash until they've done something. Last years two wins got them way to cocky. |
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jan 1, 2010 14:26:38 GMT -5
Really important win and I loved the battling under the boards. Julian is becoming a beast. Particularly loved his fighting for the rebounds during the last seconds of the game.
A negative: Greg must be the worst layup player I've seen in a long time. He simply has trouble putting the ball in the basket when he's just under it. His stats look good after a game but he could have 20 a game if he could just make layups. Needs to stand close-in in practice and do it over and over - and over and over. And over and over.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Jan 1, 2010 14:48:29 GMT -5
Solid first win, but as many have already alluded to in this thread, a lot of both positives and negatives.
Positives:
1) Chris Wright's DECISION MAKING. Forget the scoring outburst against Harvard; that was the first complete game from start to finish that I've seen CW play this year. He was solid in every facet of the game, and it needs to be said considering the amount of grief he's been taking on this board (from myself included). Keep it up Chris!
2) Team passing. A lot of nice looks in yesterday's game, especially early in the first half when we built our lead. Still can be improved a little bit, but it's been definitely heading in the right direction the last 2 games after it was nonexistent against ODU.
3) Vaughn. Guy just continues to get after it on both ends of the floor, and he even added a nice bank shot from the wing early in the game a la Duncan. If he can add that to the repertoire consistently, I'd be very excited.
Negatives:
1) Henry. Hate to beat a dead horse, but he needs to pick it up. And, at least for this season, it doesn't seem like he has much of a choice if III isn't going to play Benimon in tight spots during BE play.
2) Whoever spoke of Clark falling in love with the 3 after hitting the first one was dead-on. This has been a reoccurring problem for the last few games, and we really need JC to start rediscovering the mid-range game and cutting to the basket instead of staying one-dimensional on offense.
3) I'm also with Ed on this one re: Greg. Sure, he passed the ball well last night, but he cannot continue to shoot such a low percentage in close. Just go up strong and score or force the defender to foul. If he doesn't start to do this on a consistent basis, we are going to be in trouble against the elite teams in the conference.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Jan 1, 2010 15:00:11 GMT -5
2009-2010 Hoyas > 2008-2009 Hoyas in almost every metric that matters, especially effort and will to win. Last night's game, despite an ugly stretch in the second half that allowed the Johnnies to come from being down 50-41 to being up 51-50, was just fun to watch.
Great job by Chris and Austin, great toughness by Julian, good put backs by Greg (he's still gotta get better at finishing), and fine work by the rest.
And best of all .... REVENGE!
Happy Hoya New Year!
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jan 1, 2010 15:11:19 GMT -5
Really important win and I loved the battling under the boards. Julian is becoming a beast. Particularly loved his fighting for the rebounds during the last seconds of the game. A negative: Greg must be the worst layup player I've seen in a long time. He simply has trouble putting the ball in the basket when he's just under it. His stats look good after a game but he could have 20 a game if he could just make layups. Needs to stand close-in in practice and do it over and over - and over and over. And over and over. Agree, Ed. The kid really does not finish as well as we would like. Still quite effective, though. If he could finish like Sweetney.... |
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Jan 1, 2010 15:22:41 GMT -5
Really important win and I loved the battling under the boards. Julian is becoming a beast. Particularly loved his fighting for the rebounds during the last seconds of the game. A negative: Greg must be the worst layup player I've seen in a long time. He simply has trouble putting the ball in the basket when he's just under it. His stats look good after a game but he could have 20 a game if he could just make layups. Needs to stand close-in in practice and do it over and over - and over and over. And over and over. Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Greg wear contacts? I mention this because a lot of his misses seem to be of a kind where the player has a problem judging the correct distance from the basket. |
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jan 1, 2010 15:52:59 GMT -5
Some thoughts on the game/team having only seen about 3 GU games -- 3. The worst thing to happen to Jason last night was to hit the 3 on the first possession. He fell in love with it and missed his next 4 including some open ones. He'll do well to look for layups and midrange shots in the early going to find his legs. Hopefully just an aberration. True but two of those threes late in the second half were sooooo close. And he would have hit another deep one if III hadn't called a timeout. ;D |
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Jan 1, 2010 15:57:10 GMT -5
Norm Roberts was an absolute wild man - I hadn't noticed that before. There was a lot of contact going uncalled. Only thing there was a lot of contact both ways going uncalled. Just the way the game was played. Another thing is that Higgins is the worst ref in college basketball. He makes some of the most inconsistent calls. Also if anyone noticed before the end of the first half the Georgetown player was completely out of bounds and the refs missed it. St. John's should have gotten the ball with 2.3 ticks left. I had it on freeze frame on the DVR it was clear as day live and in replay. On the questions you posed earlier about hostility - I remember you from a year or two back, when you've consistently given good analysis and produced a solid website. With that said, it's problematic to bring up "the refs hated us" card, especially on a message board for the other team. I saw quite a few calls that favored the Hoyas, which were balanced by other calls that favored SJU. As you note, the game was not reffed well. And if you want to allege that one call was the difference in the game, or that SJU should have won, I find that surprising. Georgetown was playing a game on New Year's Eve, without a student section, with a good part of the lower bowl in comped tickets - minimizing the home-court advantage. Twice, however, the Hoyas seemed to be on the verge of breaking the game open - which, to their credit, SJU kept from happening. However, when a team has a grand total of two one-point leads - each with more than ten minutes left to go - it's pushing logic to say that they "deserved to win". On the "deserve to be ranked" thing - eh. Kansas State - who is ranked just above the Hoyas - has a loss to Mississippi and good wins over Washington State, Xavier, and at UNLV and Alabama. Michigan State, ranked #10th, has wins over Gonzaga, Massachusetts, and Utah, and losses to Florida, Carolina, and Texas. Neither of those resumes seems substantially better than wins against Temple, Butler, Tulane, and Washington (three of them away or at neutral sites) and a bad loss at home to Old Dominion. You continue to provide good analysis, especially of the Johnnies, but if you want to come here and make some assertions about the Hoyas, be prepared to back them up. |
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Jan 1, 2010 16:03:54 GMT -5
There was a lot of contact going uncalled. Only thing there was a lot of contact both ways going uncalled. Just the way the game was played. Another thing is that Higgins is the worst ref in college basketball. He makes some of the most inconsistent calls. Also if anyone noticed before the end of the first half the Georgetown player was completely out of bounds and the refs missed it. St. John's should have gotten the ball with 2.3 ticks left. I had it on freeze frame on the DVR it was clear as day live and in replay. On the questions you posed earlier about hostility - I remember you from a year or two back, when you've consistently given good analysis and produced a solid website. With that said, it's problematic to bring up "the refs hated us" card, especially on a message board for the other team. I saw quite a few calls that favored the Hoyas, which were balanced by other calls that favored SJU. As you note, the game was not reffed well. And if you want to allege that one call was the difference in the game, or that SJU should have won, I find that surprising. Georgetown was playing a game on New Year's Eve, without a student section, with a good part of the lower bowl in comped tickets - minimizing the home-court advantage. Twice, however, the Hoyas seemed to be on the verge of breaking the game open - which, to their credit, SJU kept from happening. However, when a team has a grand total of two one-point leads - each with more than ten minutes left to go - it's pushing logic to say that they "deserved to win". On the "deserve to be ranked" thing - eh. Kansas State - who is ranked just above the Hoyas - has a loss to Mississippi and good wins over Washington State, Xavier, and at UNLV and Alabama. Michigan State, ranked #10th, has wins over Gonzaga, Massachusetts, and Utah, and losses to Florida, Carolina, and Texas. Neither of those resumes seems substantially better than wins against Temple, Butler, Tulane, and Washington (three of them away or at neutral sites) and a bad loss at home to Old Dominion. You continue to provide good analysis, especially of the Johnnies, but if you want to come here and make some assertions about the Hoyas, be prepared to back them up. Thats not even mentioning Uconn, whose best win is probably Harvard and has lost to the three best teams they have played this year, and is still somehow top ten. |
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jan 1, 2010 16:07:14 GMT -5
You really don't like St. John's do you? Actually unlike some of the old school fans I have never hated St John's. In fact I've been rooting for them the past few years even though I don't think much of their coach. But I must say the comments by Burrell didn't endear me to this bunch. No, he doesn't have to compare the teams at all. Just comment on what he and his team have to do better next time to get a win. But talking about how you think you are better after a loss is a punk move. He and his band of brothers haven't proven anything. Not last season, not the season before and certainly not THIS season so far. All he and his team have shown is that they can lose games against quality teams (excluding Temple of course). And wasn't the Temple game played in MSG or at least on St John's campus? Perhaps St. John's can't knock off any good teams on the road or at a neutral site. Regardless he lost. He need to suck it up like a man and accept it; not make claims that his team is better than the team that just gave him a L. Perhaps there was nothing that Gtown did last night that would suggest they are a dominant team but there also wasn't anything that Johnnies did yesterday that tells me they are better. The Hoyas lost a lot of close games last season in which they gave away a lead late in the contest. Yet I don't recall any quotes by Hoyas during that season in which they claimed they were better than the team that defeated them. And I'm sure that type of attitude, sportsmanship and class starts at the top with the head coach. Which tells me all I need to know about Stormin' Norman who would have been fired light years ago by almost any other program. Even DePaul wouldn't keep him around that long with such little results to show for it. ] |
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jan 1, 2010 16:41:13 GMT -5
exactly MCI.
except that the temple win was "neutral" in philly at the palestra.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jan 1, 2010 16:53:46 GMT -5
Alright. Give the Johnnies full props for that one then.
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TC
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Post by TC on Jan 1, 2010 17:02:32 GMT -5
Couple of things :
Sims was absolutely godawful in the second half. I've never seen anyone play so badly that they were solely responsible for a 10 point swing, but that was basically what you saw when St. John's took the lead by 1 - and the sad thing is we're only talking about a 2 minute stretch. He was absolutely terrible on offense and defense and I wish that Benimon and Thompson would suck up his minutes soon.
Watching Wright and Freeman on the break is a thing of beauty. I remember back to the Daymond Jackson/Nat Burton days where a 2 on 1 break would mean an offensive charge more often than it would be converted for points - watching Wright and Freeman work the ball to each other for an eventual slam and making it look easy is so much fun to watch.
If Chris Wright isn't the alpha dog on this team yet, he will be. I feel better about the ball being in his hands for the last possession than I do about it being in Monroe's - who was settling for jumpers at the end of the game.
Loved the Julian rebound-pump-slam.
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Jan 1, 2010 17:03:41 GMT -5
Really important win and I loved the battling under the boards. Julian is becoming a beast. Particularly loved his fighting for the rebounds during the last seconds of the game. A negative: Greg must be the worst layup player I've seen in a long time. He simply has trouble putting the ball in the basket when he's just under it. His stats look good after a game but he could have 20 a game if he could just make layups. Needs to stand close-in in practice and do it over and over - and over and over. And over and over. Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't Greg wear contacts? I mention this because a lot of his misses seem to be of a kind where the player has a problem judging the correct distance from the basket. thats got to be a joke... right?? i mean im sure if his vision were affecting his vision to the point where it messed with his game he'd get it fixed asap. i mean this guy's tryning to be a lottery pick this year haha |
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Jan 1, 2010 17:10:56 GMT -5
Another thing is that Higgins is the worst ref in college basketball. He makes some of the most inconsistent calls. What relevance does this have to yesterday's game? Higgins was not reffing (he does not ref Hoya games because his brother is a university trustee). Perhaps you're confusing him with Jim Burr? (Yesterday's refs were Jim Burr, Jeffrey Clark, and Bob Donato). As for the calls, the players have to adjust to the style of play that is allowed by the refs. Yesterday's crew called the game the way most Big East games are called and had nothing to do with the outcome. |
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jan 1, 2010 17:18:09 GMT -5
I don't have a huge problem with what Burrell said. I'm sure it's more of him pumping up his team and his own confidence than a deliberate shot at us. They're St. John's. They've been AWFUL for how long? Someone is doing something right if they've got their confidence after a recent past of horrific seasons. He's not a media relations guy. He's just a kid that lost a game that they had a shot at winning. Granted, not a very good shot seeing as how they were only in the game by getting ridiculous 3's that won't ever fall again against anyone else and getting 3 balls from a guy that's a 17% shooter and Henry giving them about 6-8 points on his own and Greg Monroe missing layups at a rate that will never happen again. Other than that, they're almost as good as Georgetown when Georgetown doesn't play great.
As for the 50/50 balls that they didn't get? It's probably a combination of the refs being so unfair and just bad luck and maybe a little of home court advantage from the Hoyas as opposed to maybe, I don't know, one team outhustling the other.
If Burrell actually BELIEVES that St. John's is better, he's kinda demonstrating how little he knows about basketball. Saying it is OK in the heat of the moment. But believing that St. John's is better is going to really cause the kid problems when they lose quite a few more games to teams that St. John's is "better than" in the Big East.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jan 1, 2010 17:24:44 GMT -5
Oh, and the quibble about Henry being out of bounds at the end of the half is right on. He was on the line. However, later in the 2nd, after Henry presented the Johnnies with a nice run and Chris gave Henry a sweet dish underneath, it was called out on Henry when, in fact, it was out on St. John's and looked like a foul as well. Georgetown ball and probably foul shots as it was in the act of shooting.
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Post by hoyas big supporter on Jan 1, 2010 17:26:48 GMT -5
"We're beyond the moral victories," Roberts said. "We're capable of hanging with anyone in the country. We're capable of beating anyone in the country."
haha i really love this one
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