Georgetown 66 St. John's 59 Discussion

[tashoya]

Johnny... I can't help if you can't see that Georgetown is a better team this year than it was last year. I can't help if you can't see that Georgetown is better than the Johnnies this year. Both, in fact, are true. If you were being honest and you knew basketball, you'd agree. I can say that I didn't think that St. John's was better than Georgetown last year but you beat us twice so, I guess, I have to admit that you were. At least in the second half of the season. You were clearly the better team. We had better players and you guys were the better team. This year, we still have the better players and we're the better team. I think the vitriol comes from you making statements to the effect of you not seeing how we're a top 25 team and how we're not better than St. John's and yet we ARE top 25 and we just beat you yesterday. It comes off as flippant with a pinch of head in the sand. Personally, if Georgetown had a schedule of just St. John's for the rest of the year, I'd be a very happy camper as I'm sure we'd get a nice berth in the tourney. That's not to say that you guys don't have weapons and you're not going to improve. I think you guys are gonna be pretty solid this year and will fight for a tourney spot. That's a huge jump for your program. I just think that the way our team is progressing that we have a chance to be better than just Big East middle of the road. I don't mean that as disrespectful. I can't think of a program outside of St. John's that has made the sort of jump in 2 years that you all have except for maybe ND in the opposite direction. I just mean that Georgetown has a pretty looking record right now and, I think, come February, we'll be able to back it up.

[theexorcist]

Jan 1, 2010 23:16:19 GMT -5 Johnny Jungle said:

I understand people get defensive about their teams. I'm not trying to diminish anything this team has done but just voicing my opinion. The Hoyas aren't perfect nor is St. John's.

I fail to see what insulting me, my website(which doesn't crash on firefox because I use firefox everyday), or St. John's for that matter does to any points that I have raised. If you can give me something concrete on why you think the Hoyas are going to do so well in the conference I'm all ears. Why is this year different than last? I'm willing to hear you out. I'm not here to troll or complain.

I've been on this board before and the responses that I got weren't like these. Sh*t when did you guys get so hostile and angry?

Also in direct response to tashoya. I've discussed this on this board before about the similarities to the Esherick and Roberts situation. The board was pretty sympathetic and overall friendly. Now we beat you guys twice last year, you didn't see any smack from me after, and you got us this year and everyone unloads on me. Damn. I see how it is. Rivalry on! Also Lance's dad is crazy period. There is too much to that to go into nor do I want to. Next Georgetown/St. John's game buy a few beers and you'll get the E True Jungle story.

In defense of the people on the board, a) not everybody is attacking you, and b) in the past, you didn't gloat after or a victory or say "well, even though you won, we really should have".

I, like a fair number of people on the board, want St. John's to have a good season and make the NCAAs. I don't want to get into a debate with you on why Georgetown stole this one. Georgetown controlled this game, and their strategy incorporated the fact that St. John's can't make a layup from two feet away to save their lives (it probably didn't incorporate the fact that SJU had an unusually good game from behind the arc). When a team leads almost wire-to-wire, then the other team doesn't have a good case for saying that they should have won.

[JohnnyJones]

Jan 1, 2010 19:16:52 GMT -5 Johnny Jungle said:

Jan 1, 2010 14:11:24 GMT -5 JohnnyJones said:

Johnny -- do you think St. Johns will finish ahead of Georgetown in the BE regular season this year?

I think they can.

Georgetown has to play Villanova, Syracuse, and Rutgers x2

St. John's has to play Louisville, Pitt, and Depaul x2

St. John's has Marquette and WVU at home on while Georgetown plays both on the road.

Of course they can. I asked if you thought they will. Do you?

[sleepy]

Jan 1, 2010 23:16:19 GMT -5 Johnny Jungle said:

I understand people get defensive about their teams. I'm not trying to diminish anything this team has done but just voicing my opinion. The Hoyas aren't perfect nor is St. John's.

I fail to see what insulting me, my website(which doesn't crash on firefox because I use firefox everyday), or St. John's for that matter does to any points that I have raised. If you can give me something concrete on why you think the Hoyas are going to do so well in the conference I'm all ears. Why is this year different than last? I'm willing to hear you out. I'm not here to troll or complain.

I've been on this board before and the responses that I got weren't like these. Sh*t when did you guys get so hostile and angry?

Also in direct response to tashoya. I've discussed this on this board before about the similarities to the Esherick and Roberts situation. The board was pretty sympathetic and overall friendly. Now we beat you guys twice last year, you didn't see any smack from me after, and you got us this year and everyone unloads on me. Damn. I see how it is. Rivalry on! Also Lance's dad is crazy period. There is too much to that to go into nor do I want to. Next Georgetown/St. John's game buy a few beers and you'll get the E True Jungle story.

On a simliar note, I would like to know, and I am sure we will all hear you out, why don't you think we are any different from last year? As you seem to infer.
You seem to make a lot of statements with nothing to back them up. Why don't you think our guards will do well in the Big East? Like you said before. What makes you think we won't be a top 25 team by the end of the season?

[tashoya]

This is to the point of just humoring Johnny. St. John's is better than they've been in a long time. Doesn't make em BSD's in the Big East. Win something and/or watch good basketball for a season or 2 then talk. You guys are bottom half Big East still. You're not last. That's a huge accomplishment. It's telling that you guys hang your hats on beating Georgetown twice last year and it's your biggest success. It's our biggest embarrassment. Doesn't take much to infer the meaning of that. If you need a definition of "infer" feel free to ask.

[Z]

"If you need a definition of "infer" feel free to ask. "

Wouldn't be a tashoya post without an obnoxious, condescending crack like this. Thanks for staying true to form, you remain a huge Edited!

[DanMcQ]

Jan 1, 2010 19:32:43 GMT -5 EasyEd said:

Don't know if anyone caught it but the game was replayed on ESPNU this afternoon. They also replayed the Gonzaga/Oklahoma game where a Sooner hung onto the rim and the board disintegrated.

No technical foul called though. Tim Higgins must have been working the game.

[MCIGuy]

Jan 1, 2010 23:16:19 GMT -5 Johnny Jungle said:

If you can give me something concrete on why you think the Hoyas are going to do so well in the conference I'm all ears. Why is this year different than last? I'm willing to hear you out. I'm not here to troll or complain.

We don't have to even if we have concrete reasons. Each season is different and its a joke that the Hoyas are on some type of probation simply because the team crashed and burned LAST season. The Hoyas won the Big East for the two seasons prior to last season so its not as if the program hasn't had any recent success. Yet you act as if the Hoyas have been horrible for the past ten years. No, sir, that would be St. John's. What's the concrete evidence you have at your disposal to support the Red Storm is finally going to be any good?

[TC]

After rewatching this game, why is everyone saying Sims had a good first half? The only thing I noticed rewatching it was that Brownlee blew by him for that monster jam.

[tigerbake]

Thought they played well overall. Here are my ratings


Monroe- B+, good passing, looked good overall

Vaughn - A, provided toughness we needed

Wright- A smart with the ball, scoring when needed

Clark- B solid

Freeman- B+ seemed agressive

Hollis- C didn't see enough to make a grade

Henry- D seemed confused on D

Overall...I liked the fight and thought we played good down the stretch

[DFW HOYA]

St. John's is a better team for one simple reason: they finally have a stable lineup, something it has lacked for a number of years. And they'll be better in 2010-11 (losing only Mason), but the 2011 off-season looms out on the horizon, because they could have nine seniors on the roster.

Thankfully for St. John's, the 8/5 rule doesn't apply any more, but the ability of the Redmen to get to a point where they can recruit at a national level within two years will have a significant impact on where they will be going forward.

[seaweed]

Jan 2, 2010 10:15:23 GMT -5 TC said:

After rewatching this game, why is everyone saying Sims had a good first half? The only thing I noticed rewatching it was that Brownlee blew by him for that monster jam.

key words "I noticed"...go back and look again, closer this time.

Aside from the obvious observation that the smaller, faster guy blew by him in the SECOND HALF and not the FIRST, what issues do you have with HS in the first? Brownlee beat Sims twice yesterday, big ephing deal. If we had wanted to pound the ball inside to Henry I imagine he could have used the height disparity to his advantage in the paint, but on the perimeter Brownlee and Evans are crudy matchups for HS and getting the ball to HS in the paint is not a high priority for us. Look at the play by play breakdown I did in the Henry thread, or re-watch again, because Henry had 2 rebbies, two assisteses and a steal and participated in the 18-2 run that opened up the first half for us. Maybe his vesper half wasn't as solid and he did turn the ball over (one legit, one certainly looked to be off SJU) but his play was anything but dismal - he was spirited, passed the ball well and most importantly he was in the right place on nearly all switches. The only significant breakdown was the sequence where Brownlee drove/dunked and then buried the 3 - both plays that would be tough for anyone to D. Ask why there was no help inside on the drive, or what else HS could have done to prevent a 17% 3pt shooter from suddenly up and popping an unconscious 3 with a hand in his face. Don't just rag on a 6'11" 19 year old kid because you think he should have been able to prevent a single drive to the hoop by a 6'8" guy whose best strength is his mobility. Maybe he did bite on the up fake, but really, is that what struck you as most worthy of comment in this whole game? Ludicrous and not very nice either. Henry played hard, he played well and he was not particularly lucky, but the things being said here about him the last few days are WAY OUT OF LINE.

[HoyaSinceBirth]

1st half henry had 2 rebounds, 2 assits, and a steal and no turnovers he also drew a foul in 9 minutes in the 2nd half he had 2 TOs in 4 minutes. He gave us plenty in the first half. The second half he didn't.

yes defensively he didn't have a good match up, that's why he didn't play that much. You can't really fault him for not being faster. Coach did the right thing by not subjectign him to that match up for that long.

[OldHoyafan]

Henry at this stage of his development should be judged by the old addage "do no harm". If he can stay on the court and do positive things like good defense, rebounding, and passing then any scoring by him is gravy. In the St John's game the 1st half had positive minutes on a whole and the 2nd half had negative minutes on a whole. JT3's insertion of him as the 1st substitute off the bench in the 1st half is a positive sign that JT3 believes that Henry will be able to give extended positive minutes. Remember, Henry is a 6'11" 19 year old cast to play the 4 position rather than the 5 position. He is being asked to do what only two other greatly talented 6'10"guys(Green, Monroe) have been asked to do in JT3 system. Bowman was 6'9" and Summers was 6'8".

[tashoya]

Z... you have a problem with condescending to St. John's fans now? Get a grip.

[TC]

Jan 2, 2010 12:51:29 GMT -5 OldHoyafan said:

Remember, Henry is a 6'11" 19 year old cast to play the 4 position rather than the 5 position. He is being asked to do what only two other greatly talented 6'10"guys(Green, Monroe) have been asked to do in JT3 system.

Huh? Henry's just being asked to play defense and rebound - he is most certainly not being asked to do what Green or Monroe were asked to do.

And seaweed, I'll rewatch again tonight, but the tomahawk down-the-lane one-handed Dr. J slam was in the first half and it was on Henry - maybe it was Burrell and not Brownlee, but the point is the same.

[HoyaSinceBirth]

That was actually on greg not on henry i'm pretty sure and it was burrell not Brownlee if that's the dunk you're tlaking about.

[SFOHoya]

The tomahawk in the first half was Burrell on Monroe. The dunk in the second half was Brownlee on Hank.

I re-watched the game last night and I feel better about HS' performance. He had a horrendous 45 second stretch but otherwise he played ok.