DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Aug 30, 2009 9:08:07 GMT -5
All in all, a very dignified afternoon, and the respect of his peers was certainly in evidence. I also found this photo from the Globe: amidst the politicians, a solitary figure in the back of the church, alone, either arriving early or staying as the crowds left: a 72 year old Jack Nicholson. I'm not sure the two crossed paths very often, but it is an interesting context. www.boston.com/news/obituaries/senator_kennedy/082909_names2/ |
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Aug 30, 2009 11:05:31 GMT -5
All in all, a very dignified afternoon, and the respect of his peers was certainly in evidence. I also found this photo from the Globe: amidst the politicians, a solitary figure in the back of the church, alone, either arriving early or staying as the crowds left: a 72 year old Jack Nicholson. I'm not sure the two crossed paths very often, but it is an interesting context. www.boston.com/news/obituaries/senator_kennedy/082909_names2/For my part, I was surprised to see Communion offered to such a group of heathens. Surely the Communion-deniers could have done a better job in advance to deny them of the Holy Sacrament. |
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TC
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Post by TC on Aug 30, 2009 11:18:31 GMT -5
Fair enough. There is undoubtedly behind-the-scenes jockeying on the left. I had not read a report from a potential candidate on the left saying they're in or not in. Schilling would be an interesting candidate. Barney Frank said he was out of the race at about the same time. |
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Aug 30, 2009 11:27:54 GMT -5
Fair enough. There is undoubtedly behind-the-scenes jockeying on the left. I had not read a report from a potential candidate on the left saying they're in or not in. Schilling would be an interesting candidate. Barney Frank said he was out of the race at about the same time. Ok, thanks. My guess/hope is that Delahunt and Marty Meehan are the front runners, but it seems as though Delahunt is not interested. |
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Aug 30, 2009 12:56:39 GMT -5
I can think of one he didn't save. In all likelihood, he probably couldn't have "saved" her. He could have alerted authorities more quickly, but unless he had a waterproof cell phone in 1969, she would have almost certainly drowned before anyone would have gotten there. Unless, of course, you want to blame the man for not being a strong enough swimmer to go back down to the car and figure out how to get her out himself.* While we're dumping on dead folks, has anyone pointed out that she was an adult woman who knowingly got in the car with an intoxicated married man? If Kennedy weren't a prominent Democrat, I think most of the disgraceful anti-Kennedy people who have been so vocal about his one huge mistake in life would be taking shots at her for her less-than-stellar decisionmaking. * And actually, I've just discovered that he claims to have gone back down to try to free her. Maybe that's true. Maybe it's not. I'm going to assume that you weren't there, so let's just chalk that one up to the old "we don't know" category. Actually, she probably lived for 2-4 hours in the car before she finally ran out of air and suffocated. So, there is a chance, maybe even a good one, that she could have been saved if Kennedy had alerted the authorities. He could have gone to the house 150 yards from the bridge and used the phone there. The guy had plenty of chances to do the right thing and passed every time. In my world, leaving a woman to suffocate and die is more than just a mistake. I guess we disagree. |
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Aug 30, 2009 13:37:01 GMT -5
I can think of one he didn't save. While we're dumping on dead folks, has anyone pointed out that she was an adult woman who knowingly got in the car with an intoxicated married man? If Kennedy weren't a prominent Democrat, I think most of the disgraceful anti-Kennedy people who have been so vocal about his one huge mistake in life would be taking shots at her for her less-than-stellar decisionmaking. Oh, so you're equating getting in a car with Ted Kennedy and letting someone drown? Nice. |
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Aug 30, 2009 13:48:38 GMT -5
Actually, she probably lived for 2-4 hours in the car before she finally ran out of air and suffocated. So, there is a chance, maybe even a good one, that she could have been saved if Kennedy had alerted the authorities. He could have gone to the house 150 yards from the bridge and used the phone there. The guy had plenty of chances to do the right thing and passed every time. In my world, leaving a woman to suffocate and die is more than just a mistake. I guess we disagree. I by no means endorse Ted Kennedy's involvement in the Chappaquiddick incident. He acted irresponsibly, to be sure. However, it seems to me that the facts have been massaged or slanted by those involved in a cottage industry whose worth and honor has long since disappeared. In many cases, the protestors would be substantially less interested forty years later had the passenger/victim been a Kennedy. I hesitate to even respond on this basis. The 2-4 hours idea is incredibly speculative, notwithstanding the diver's apparent comment that she could have survived for 2 hours in the car. In this context, was it wrong of Kennedy to dive several times (7 or 8) in an attempt to save her? He could have reasonably believed that she had minutes to live. In the circumstances, that action seems to be rational, especially in light of his sworn testimony that he did not see the house, lighted or not at the time of the accident. Let's call the time spent for his diving and rest 45 minutes. He would then be down to an hour and fifteen minutes in which to find a way to notify the police, for the police to gather and dispatch to the scene, for the police to reach the scene, and for them to safely remove the victim from the car. Could that be accomplished in an hour and fifteen minutes? Possibly. He could have happened to find the houses, someone in one of the houses, as well as an operational phone (I guess most folks, particularly in this location, had these back then). Is it a sure thing? Absolutely not. Is there reason to doubt that it would have been possible? Sure. If the 2-4 hours assumption is wrong, and she died in 20-30 minutes, Ted did exactly the right thing immediately after the accident. Absolutely no way for the police to be notified, dispatch to the scene, and extract the victim in that period of time. This being said, he should have notified the authorities earlier. In the fact pattern as it exists and not speculation as to what he could have done (i.e. find a house), it would have been best at St. Lawrence College. |
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Post by HoyaLawya on Aug 30, 2009 16:27:52 GMT -5
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Post by strummer8526 on Aug 30, 2009 17:02:14 GMT -5
While we're dumping on dead folks, has anyone pointed out that she was an adult woman who knowingly got in the car with an intoxicated married man? If Kennedy weren't a prominent Democrat, I think most of the disgraceful anti-Kennedy people who have been so vocal about his one huge mistake in life would be taking shots at her for her less-than-stellar decisionmaking. Oh, so you're equating getting in a car with Ted Kennedy and letting someone drown? Nice. If these were just two drunk teenagers in Ridgewood, NJ, you would be saying that the girl shouldn't have gotten in the car. The guy made an enormous mistake and should feel awful about it, but the girl is not 100% blameless. You don't hop into the car with someone who's been drinking. It's common sense. And it doesn't excuse his subsequent poor decisions. But it does paint a more complete picture to remember that a 29 year old chose to take a ride home from a man who had been drinking, and unfortunately, there was an accident—one that he did not immediately respond to properly, but an accident nonetheless. |
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Aug 30, 2009 18:47:24 GMT -5
Actually, she probably lived for 2-4 hours in the car before she finally ran out of air and suffocated. So, there is a chance, maybe even a good one, that she could have been saved if Kennedy had alerted the authorities. He could have gone to the house 150 yards from the bridge and used the phone there. The guy had plenty of chances to do the right thing and passed every time. In my world, leaving a woman to suffocate and die is more than just a mistake. I guess we disagree. I by no means endorse Ted Kennedy's involvement in the Chappaquiddick incident. He acted irresponsibly, to be sure. However, it seems to me that the facts have been massaged or slanted by those involved in a cottage industry whose worth and honor has long since disappeared. In many cases, the protestors would be substantially less interested forty years later had the passenger/victim been a Kennedy. I hesitate to even respond on this basis. The 2-4 hours idea is incredibly speculative, notwithstanding the diver's apparent comment that she could have survived for 2 hours in the car. In this context, was it wrong of Kennedy to dive several times (7 or 8) in an attempt to save her? He could have reasonably believed that she had minutes to live. In the circumstances, that action seems to be rational, especially in light of his sworn testimony that he did not see the house, lighted or not at the time of the accident. Let's call the time spent for his diving and rest 45 minutes. He would then be down to an hour and fifteen minutes in which to find a way to notify the police, for the police to gather and dispatch to the scene, for the police to reach the scene, and for them to safely remove the victim from the car. Could that be accomplished in an hour and fifteen minutes? Possibly. He could have happened to find the houses, someone in one of the houses, as well as an operational phone (I guess most folks, particularly in this location, had these back then). Is it a sure thing? Absolutely not. Is there reason to doubt that it would have been possible? Sure. If the 2-4 hours assumption is wrong, and she died in 20-30 minutes, Ted did exactly the right thing immediately after the accident. Absolutely no way for the police to be notified, dispatch to the scene, and extract the victim in that period of time. This being said, he should have notified the authorities earlier. In the fact pattern as it exists and not speculation as to what he could have done (i.e. find a house), it would have been best at St. Lawrence College. Didn't Kennedy notify his attorney that night but the authorities not until the next day? Kinda pokes holes in the excuse of a concussion. Also, why wasn't the attorney not brought to justice for not reporting the accident that night? |
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Aug 30, 2009 18:58:43 GMT -5
This being said, he should have notified the authorities earlier. In the fact pattern as it exists and not speculation as to what he could have done (i.e. find a house), it would have been best at St. Lawrence College. Didn't Kennedy notify his attorney that night but the authorities not until the next day? Kinda pokes holes in the excuse of a concussion. Also, why wasn't the attorney not brought to justice for not reporting the accident that night? I most clearly stated that Kennedy should have notified the authorities earlier. He did not notify his attorney that night, but, rather, a friend who happened to be an attorney. This person was at the party when Kennedy returned. The friend was under the impression that Kennedy was going to notify the authorities. It does not "poke[] holes" insofar as there does not appear to be an effort to "lawyer up" immediately, and frankly does not call into question the expert medical opinion stating that Kennedy had a concussion. |
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TC
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Post by TC on Aug 30, 2009 19:20:11 GMT -5
Ok, thanks. My guess/hope is that Delahunt and Marty Meehan are the front runners, but it seems as though Delahunt is not interested. I've never heard of either of those guys. Niki Tsongas, Vicki Kennedy, Joseph Kennedy, Ed Markey, and Stephen Lynch have all got to be bigger names than those two if any of them run. |
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Aug 30, 2009 19:29:50 GMT -5
Ok, thanks. My guess/hope is that Delahunt and Marty Meehan are the front runners, but it seems as though Delahunt is not interested. I've never heard of either of those guys. Niki Tsongas, Vicki Kennedy, Joseph Kennedy, Ed Markey, and Stephen Lynch have all got to be bigger names than those two if any of them run. Are you serious? I live clear out here in bizzaro-Massachusetts and even I've heard of these two [congressmen]. Maybe my sarcasm detector is off... |
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Aug 31, 2009 9:40:19 GMT -5
"The philandering goes on, the lying endures, the tab is never paid and the bar will nevah close"--EMK
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Aug 31, 2009 12:45:55 GMT -5
I was out of the country for the last week, what happened?
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Aug 31, 2009 13:47:07 GMT -5
I was out of the country for the last week, what happened? Some radical right-wing Nazi mobster killed Ted Kennedy at a town hall meeting by beating him over the head repeatedly with HR3200, which was sold to him by Libyan terrorists. Everything on TV was pre-empted to cover the event, except for on Fox News, which ran a 12-hour documentary on the life and times of Mary Jo Kopechne, narrated by Steve Doucy and Sarah Palin. |
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Aug 31, 2009 13:55:49 GMT -5
I was out of the country for the last week, what happened? Some radical right-wing Nazi mobster killed Ted Kennedy at a town hall meeting by beating him over the head repeatedly with HR3200, which was sold to him by Libyan terrorists. Everything on TV was pre-empted to cover the event, except for on Fox News, which ran a 12-hour documentary on the life and times of Mary Jo Kopechne, narrated by Steve Doucy and Sarah Palin. I'll vouch for that. |
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Aug 31, 2009 15:32:29 GMT -5
I figured. It wasn't on Fox News today, it must be true.
PS How is this connected to Wegman's?
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Aug 31, 2009 16:09:38 GMT -5
Did I forget to mention that?
Yeah, Danny Wegman was the killer.
CNN has taken to calling him "The Death Panel."
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TC
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Post by TC on Aug 31, 2009 16:10:44 GMT -5
Instead of complaining that the Democrats are trying to change the rules after the fact with the governor appointee, the Republicans in the MA legislature are now asking for a Nov. 3 election because it's more convenient than waiting all the number of days (145 or 160 or whatever) that the law of special elections actually requires and because December primaries would interfere with Christmas shopping or something.
Amazing that they managed to lose the hypocrisy card so early on in this.
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