Ted Kennedy

[EasyEd]

I disagreed with almost everything Ted Kennedy espoused but he was a superb politician in the good sense of the word. He was a very effective legislator and spokesman for liberal causes and was consistent in word and deed. He did not sell his soul for political gain, a trait members on both side of the aisle could well imitate.

[jerseyhoya34]

I, like Jack, do not have but a figuratively distant connection to Senator Kennedy but find myself struck by his life, career, and experience. I happened to agree with Senator Kennedy on many, if not most, political matters, and Senator Kennedy was the singular Democrat of long-standing who did not vote for this bill or that bill because of some PAC, help that constituent because she was a donor, vote one way in order to be re-elected, or things of this sort that happen on both sides of the aisle. He did not blow with the political winds, eager to flip pancakes in New Hampshire every four years to curry favor with a candidate who stood to give him this nomination or that nomination. In this respect, I found Senator Kennedy to be immensely reliable and genuine to the public and his colleagues, who became his friends in no small measure because of this.

Now is not the time for the proverbial RNC staffer in a padded room to blast the talking points or wonder why the media won't hour a 2 hour special about Chappaquiddick. It is appropriate, however, that these events, good and bad, be treated in an analysis of his life as a whole but not to demean his character in isolation.

May he rest in peace and may the country find better stewards of his dream in both parties than that which walks the halls of Congress at the moment.

[CAHoya07]

Aug 26, 2009 14:46:48 GMT -5 Nevada Hoya said:

I think all of them were advocates for civil rights and the poor. Does that trump their personal flaws.

In my mind, in many cases, yes, it does. We are all human beings with personal flaws, nobody is perfect.

In regards to the Chappaquiddick incident, I think we can all agree that it was a serious error in judgment, and Kennedy had to live with that shame and weight on his conscience for the rest of his life.

[Boz]

Let us not forget also that it was not John or Bobby, but Ted Kennedy who served as the inspiration for one of the best ancillary Simpsons characters of all time.

And if you know me, you know I mean that as a serious compliment.

Rest in peace, Diamond Ted.

[hoya9797]

Aug 26, 2009 15:57:10 GMT -5 CAHoya07 said:

Aug 26, 2009 14:46:48 GMT -5 Nevada Hoya said:

I think all of them were advocates for civil rights and the poor. Does that trump their personal flaws.

In my mind, in many cases, yes, it does. We are all human beings with personal flaws, nobody is perfect.

In regards to the Chappaquiddick incident, I think we can all agree that it was a serious error in judgment, and Kennedy had to live with that shame and weight on his conscience for the rest of his life.

He should have had to live with a 20 year jail term as well. Then he could have had his second chance. The guy was a scumbag and there is nothing he did in his professional life that could make up for killing that woman.

[Jack]

Aug 26, 2009 16:10:18 GMT -5 hoya9797 said:

Aug 26, 2009 15:57:10 GMT -5 CAHoya07 said:

In my mind, in many cases, yes, it does. We are all human beings with personal flaws, nobody is perfect.

In regards to the Chappaquiddick incident, I think we can all agree that it was a serious error in judgment, and Kennedy had to live with that shame and weight on his conscience for the rest of his life.

He should have had to live with a 20 year jail term as well. Then he could have had his second chance. The guy was a scumbag and there is nothing he did in his professional life that could make up for killing that woman.

Considering that Charles Smith only served 2 years for the deaths of two pedestrians in Boston in 1991 (and Donte Stallworth apparently only will serve around 30 days for his vehicular homicide), I don't think a 20 year sentence would have been too likely under any circumstances.

[jerseyhoya34]

Aug 26, 2009 16:36:22 GMT -5 Jack said:

Aug 26, 2009 16:10:18 GMT -5 hoya9797 said:

He should have had to live with a 20 year jail term as well. Then he could have had his second chance. The guy was a scumbag and there is nothing he did in his professional life that could make up for killing that woman.

Considering that Charles Smith only served 2 years for the deaths of two pedestrians in Boston in 1991 (and Donte Stallworth apparently only will serve around 30 days for his vehicular homicide), I don't think a 20 year sentence would have been too likely under any circumstances.

Perhaps the proposed sentencing has more to do with political considerations than equity or a genuine sense of compassion for the victim.

[strummer8526]

Aug 26, 2009 17:00:09 GMT -5 @jerseyhoya34 said:

Aug 26, 2009 16:36:22 GMT -5 Jack said:

Considering that Charles Smith only served 2 years for the deaths of two pedestrians in Boston in 1991 (and Donte Stallworth apparently only will serve around 30 days for his vehicular homicide), I don't think a 20 year sentence would have been too likely under any circumstances.

Perhaps the proposed sentencing has more to do with political considerations than equity or a genuine sense of compassion for the victim.

Blasphemy! Judge Hoya9797 considers only the interests of justice and fairness, though admittedly, the plausibility of a potential sentence appears to allude him sometimes.

[guru]

Aug 26, 2009 15:57:10 GMT -5 CAHoya07 said:

Aug 26, 2009 14:46:48 GMT -5 Nevada Hoya said:

I think all of them were advocates for civil rights and the poor. Does that trump their personal flaws.

In my mind, in many cases, yes, it does. We are all human beings with personal flaws, nobody is perfect.

In regards to the Chappaquiddick incident, I think we can all agree that it was a serious error in judgment, and Kennedy had to live with that shame and weight on his conscience for the rest of his life.

"incident" huh? Quite a euphemism there - softens what actually happened quite a bit, don't you think?

And, I believe "live" would be the operative word that you used here.

[TBird41]

Aug 26, 2009 14:18:11 GMT -5 TC said:

Saw an article this morning about how Kennedy's memorial will be like a "Wellstone Memorial on steroids" and laughed about the sheer ridiculousness of the statement. Putting aside the fact that Kennedy has had his farewell tour over the past year and didn't tragically die in the middle of a bitter campaign, there's no chance of that happening. MA is a one-party state and there simply aren't the hard feelings between the Kennedy clan and his foes. Orrin Hatch and Mitt Romney will not be booed at whatever service takes place.

I don't know if it'll happen, but I think the people talking about a backlash were referring to a backlash from things like this:

abcnews.go.com/Politics/TedKennedy/story?id=8420408

[TC]

That's not comparable to the Wellstone situation at all though and it completely misses what was so distasteful about that memorial (people getting booed, petty grudges and hypocrisies being played out, respectful distance and tone not being shown, etc). It isn't just Democrats - Republicans are pumping the Kennedy soundbytes too - "If Kennedy were around, we'd just sit down and hash this thing out" (yeah, right). Both parties are trying to co-opt the spirit of Teddy Kennedy like they generally do with the spirit of Lincoln.

My guess is that in a couple of weeks the bill will not be named after Kennedy. I'm a little unsure of how naming it after Kennedy really sells it to anyone else that hadn't already bought into it - I think that's just a half-baked idea that is being discussed in-the-moment.

I would bet on Senator Dukakis by the end of October though.

[Coast2CoastHoya]

Godspeed, Teddy.

[jerseyhoya34]

It has been interesting to see how some 2012 candidates have reacted to these events, especially in light of the Wellstone analogy. Mike Huckabee, who I happen to like, probably erred on his radio show and made a comment that he wished he had not. Be that as it may, here it is, "...Kennedy would be told to 'go home to take pain pills and die.'" under Obama's proposed healthcare system. For his part, Mitt Romney waited two days to announce that he would not seek to replace Senator Kennedy in the Senate. Too soon?

I watched some of this evening's tribute to Senator Kennedy and thought John Kerry gave perhaps the best speech of his life. It is worth watching, even if you detest John Kerry.

[TC]

Aug 28, 2009 22:11:34 GMT -5 @jerseyhoya34 said:

For his part, Mitt Romney waited two days to announce that he would not seek to replace Senator Kennedy in the Senate. Too soon?

Eh, I think Romney was fine there. On the Democratic side they've already started jockeying for the seat - so not too soon, and if Romney were to lose a primary to Curt Schilling, well, that'd kinda torpedo his career right there.

[jerseyhoya34]

Fair enough. There is undoubtedly behind-the-scenes jockeying on the left. I had not read a report from a potential candidate on the left saying they're in or not in. Schilling would be an interesting candidate.

[Coast2CoastHoya]

Watching Kennedy's funeral mass, I'm struck by how large and how loyal and how touched the lives in that sanctuary are, and of how many lives and in how many ways Kennedy touched in positive ways. For a man who doubtlessly failed in sometimes explosive and always public ways, he also succeeded in helping and even saving so many. Agree with him or disagree, laud or detract, I don't see how any citizen of our country can fail to be inspired by his story.

Watching Presidents Carter, Bush, Clinton, and Obama, Sens McCain, Kerry, and Hatch, Secretaries Clinton and Salazar, the whole family and the host of friends and well wishers makes and hearing the stories and seeing the pain on their faces for their loss mingled with the joy and affection of having known the man and seen his life's story unfold give me hope that people remember that, despite arguments and differences, there was a time when political warriors could disagree viciously but still respect each other, see each other, and work together -- as President Obama said -- as patriots.

[Nevada Hoya]

I thought Teddy Jr.'s remarks were especially poignant and perceptive.

[kchoya]

Aug 29, 2009 12:15:00 GMT -5 Coast2CoastHoya said:

For a man who doubtlessly failed in sometimes explosive and always public ways, he also succeeded in helping and even saving so many.

I can think of one he didn't save.

[strummer8526]

Aug 29, 2009 14:28:31 GMT -5 kchoya said:

Aug 29, 2009 12:15:00 GMT -5 Coast2CoastHoya said:

For a man who doubtlessly failed in sometimes explosive and always public ways, he also succeeded in helping and even saving so many.

I can think of one he didn't save.

In all likelihood, he probably couldn't have "saved" her. He could have alerted authorities more quickly, but unless he had a waterproof cell phone in 1969, she would have almost certainly drowned before anyone would have gotten there. Unless, of course, you want to blame the man for not being a strong enough swimmer to go back down to the car and figure out how to get her out himself.*

While we're dumping on dead folks, has anyone pointed out that she was an adult woman who knowingly got in the car with an intoxicated married man? If Kennedy weren't a prominent Democrat, I think most of the disgraceful anti-Kennedy people who have been so vocal about his one huge mistake in life would be taking shots at her for her less-than-stellar decisionmaking.


* And actually, I've just discovered that he claims to have gone back down to try to free her. Maybe that's true. Maybe it's not. I'm going to assume that you weren't there, so let's just chalk that one up to the old "we don't know" category.

[DanMcQ]

Sadly, John Kerry giving perhaps the best speech of his life is not hurdling a very high bar.

In the most interesting news from yesterday:

www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2009/08/30/as_night_fell_burial___and_revelation/