The More Things Change....

[AvantGuardHoya]

Post racial America:

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090720/ap_on_re_us/us_harvard_scholar_disorderly

[strummer8526]

This doesn't sound like racial profiling to me at all. It sounds like a self-righteous jackass who gave police a hard time when they were trying to investigate the robbery of his own house. Does it sound like what he was doing was that bad? Not really. Stupid to arrest him? Probably. But white people get arrested for stupid reasons all the time. White college students get arrested all the time for having open containers or being drunk in public. Meanwhile, visit Chinatown most days of the week and you'll see plenty of both.

Again, sounds really stupid to have arrested the guy. He obviously wasn't a threat. But I think I'm much more reluctant than many to claim that something is "profiling."

[AvantGuardHoya]

www.wickedlocal.com/cambridge/news/x737378901/Harvard-professor-Charles-Ogletree-releases-statement-on-behalf-of-Henry-Louis-Gates?popular=true

[Buckets]

Here's the police report that was linked from this news story.

EDIT: Link has disappeared from the story and the URL to the police report is dead. Apparently it was a leak? Here's another URL to the police report: www.scribd.com/doc/17512830/Gates-Police-Report

[thebin]

I don't know what to think here. On the one hand, the first report I read indicated Gates was a heck of a lot more confrontational than that statement put out by his friend that AvantGuard has linked. That link seems to paint the picture as rosy as possible for Gates, in a way that doesn't really ring true. I feel like at this point we have no idea if Gates was within his rights to be upset or was really going over the top causing the cops a problem (crucially) BEFORE he gave them his ID. That to me is the most important question...when did Gates provide identification. If he kinda threw a fit before providing the ID, then it sounds like he was creating a problem as well as dealing with one. If he did show his ID up front as indicated in the above link....I think the cops have some serious explaining to do. To me it seems clear the cops were there and had a right to a certain extent to be suspicious of Gates at the outset- it's a question of the timeline of escalation during that investigation. The question then isn't profiling to me but did the cops continue the investigation past the time when Gates furnished his state and university ID.

What does ring true to my ears is cops clamming up and getting aggressive when Gates asked for their name a badge number which may have lead to the arrest- which is not acceptable at all. I'm very leery of cops acting above the law and I know how quickly many of them abuse their power in this way when pushed by civilians well-practiced in their liberties. But as strummer said, this could well happen to white people too. I'm reminded of the Eddie Murphy sketch where he dressed up as a white person in a mock expose of racism only to find banks giving white people free loans and public busses with free cocktails as soon as the last black person got off. I certainly think it's possible blacks underestimate how often cops abuse of their power with whites too.

I feel like we really have no clear picture of the pertinent facts yet, but I'm leaning towards the conclusion that the cops got a bit tired of Gates getting in their face even after they knew he wasn't breaking into the house, and that disturbs me a lot. Cops do not have a right not to be annoyed or even offended short of threatened. I think far too often they think they do have that right. But there isn't strong evidence to suggest this is racism at play, conditioned though we are to look for that at the first sign. It may have been racism, or just may have been cops abusing their power in the face of an angry citizen, which of course happens to us white folk every single day in this country. Which is bad enough I might add.

[hoyatables]

Thebin, a pretty cogent analysis of the situation. Well stated.

[Boz]

I'm not sure what everyone is worried about.

Al Sharpton is flying in, so you know he's going to get to the truth.



In all seriousness, I think bin's analysis is pretty good.

The police were acting initially on a reported crime. It is not racial profiling that they show up at that location and need to question the person who is in the house. That is their duty. On the other hand, if this professor did produce his identification upon request and things got out of hand AFTER that, then I think there's a pretty good chance there was some misconduct here (whether racially motivated or not is probably something we'll never know).

Personally, if I was this professor, I'd be more Editeded off at my neighbors than the police. I don't know how long he has lived at this address, but unless it's a very, very short time, I'd be asking, "Which one of you @$#^@^s called the cops on my when I was trying to get into MY OWN HOUSE??"

My guess is, if anyone's actions were racially motivated, I might look first in the direction of the woman who called 911.

[theexorcist]

Jul 21, 2009 8:41:14 GMT -5 Boz said:

I'm not sure what everyone is worried about.

Al Sharpton is flying in, so you know he's going to get to the truth.



In all seriousness, I think bin's analysis is pretty good.

The police were acting initially on a reported crime. It is not racial profiling that they show up at that location and need to question the person who is in the house. That is their duty. On the other hand, if this professor did produce his identification upon request and things got out of hand AFTER that, then I think there's a pretty good chance there was some misconduct here (whether racially motivated or not is probably something we'll never know).

Personally, if I was this professor, I'd be more Editeded off at my neighbors than the police. I don't know how long he has lived at this address, but unless it's a very, very short time, I'd be asking, "Which one of you @$#^@^s called the cops on my when I was trying to get into MY OWN HOUSE??"

My guess is, if anyone's actions were racially motivated, I might look first in the direction of the woman who called 911.

In the neighbor's potential defense, Gates had been away for a while. If you, at night, see someone try to open the front door, fail, and then head to a back door, in a house that hasn't been occupied in a week, I might call the cops.

Maybe racism, maybe not. Lots of this depends on stuff that can't be proven (notably how difficult Gates was).

[thebin]

"Personally, if I was this professor, I'd be more Editeded off at my neighbors than the police. I don't know how long he has lived at this address, but unless it's a very, very short time, I'd be asking, "Which one of you @$#^@^s called the cops on my when I was trying to get into MY OWN HOUSE??"

My guess is, if anyone's actions were racially motivated, I might look first in the direction of the woman who called 911."

Was thinking the same thing, who's the jerk who dropped a dime. On the other hand....trying to pry open a locked/damaged door is pretty darn suspicious activity. Was it dark? I don't remember it stating time of day. Maybe the person who called knew exactly who Gates was but assumed that this clearly wasn't him since he didn't seem to have a key and was trying to be a good neighbor by helping to protect Gates' house. Or maybe it was just a biggoted presumption made by the caller.

[Buckets]

Call was made at 12:44 PM... hardly high-traffic break-in time, and I'm going to assume that the neighbor did not know Gates was away for a week since she apparently doesn't know who lives there. But it's excusable enough, she's driving around at noon on a Thursday and has time to hang out and watch, she probably didn't have a lot going on.

To me, it sounds like Gates overreacted to the police answering a call about a break-in (traveling halfway across the world only to find I have to break into my own house would not put me in the best of moods either) and probably should not have followed the officer outside his house. But the officer grossly overreacted to Gates making a scene by putting him in cuffs. Probably not the most appropriate way to handle that.

[thebin]

There are probably some serious town/gown issues at play here too between Cambridge city cops and University Biggs.

[TC]

This story kind of reminds me of another story I read about yesterday ("The Internet vs. Adam L Goldstein") which is much more humorous but also falls under the same "stupid situations that could have been avoided if everyone treated each other with a modicum of respect" banner:

Summary :
74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:-yAumAbSPdAJ:forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php%3Fthreadid%3D3173240+adam+l+goldstein&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

Hilarious NSFW mp3 with Adam L. Goldstein :
www.tindeck.com/listen/ubme

[Bando]

Jul 21, 2009 9:05:14 GMT -5 thebin said:

"Personally, if I was this professor, I'd be more Editeded off at my neighbors than the police. I don't know how long he has lived at this address, but unless it's a very, very short time, I'd be asking, "Which one of you @$#^@^s called the cops on my when I was trying to get into MY OWN HOUSE??"

My guess is, if anyone's actions were racially motivated, I might look first in the direction of the woman who called 911."

Was thinking the same thing, who's the jerk who dropped a dime. On the other hand....trying to pry open a locked/damaged door is pretty darn suspicious activity. Was it dark? I don't remember it stating time of day. Maybe the person who called knew exactly who Gates was but assumed that this clearly wasn't him since he didn't seem to have a key and was trying to be a good neighbor by helping to protect Gates' house. Or maybe it was just a biggoted presumption made by the caller.

That's what I was thinking too. If there's any racial profiling going on, it's by the neighbor, not the cop who was just responding to a call.

Right now we have only one-sided accounts from the cop and Gates, so it will be interesting if a third-party account comes to light. I admit I'm somewhat leaning against the police, but that's only because I read a lot of Radley Balko.

[theexorcist]

From CNN, prosecutors are dropping the disorderly conduct charge.

[SoCalHoya]

Skip Gates is one of the most genuine and thoughtful people I've had the pleasure to meet. In case this changes anyone's views, he is also as physically UNimposing as they come. He walks with a cane, has a huge limp and is a pretty jovial dude. From what I know of him, he is also not the type to get in someone's face, unless seriously provoked. So I'm less inclined to believe the cop's side of the story here.

And, I'd be Editeded at the neighbor, too. Damn!

I also recommend that, if you have the time, you check out his two documentaries called African American Lives 1 and 2. An amazing look into genealogy, historical records and new developments in DNA research.

[kchoya]

The most telling thing is how quickly he went to the race card. Sad.

[Deleted]

Check the photo. Note that the cop in the foreground is...African-American.

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/21/AR2009072101771.html?hpid=topnews

[thebin]

From that piece in the Globe, it really seems likely to me that Gates was pretty much begging to be arrested. That doesn't mean he should have been, but it seems like this was an exciting opportunity to him to see how far he could push the cops while knowing that if anything actually getting arrested would be a good career move for him. I mean read that account, he really seems to be revelling in a constructed victimhood from his vacation home on Martha's Vineyard. When asked for ID and badge number, cops have to provide it, whether they think they are being insulted by the request or not. We have a he said/he said problem here with that. I'm going to assume the cop did ignore Gates' demand for a badge #. I'm willing to believe the cops crossed the line here, but I don't know what the legal standard is for harassing a cop- but wouldn't you all assume that if anything, this man, who they must have known to be a harvard prof by the time he was arrested, got MORE leeway (not less) than a random white guy would have? It no longer seems faniciful that Gates may have been legally harassing the cops by the time his blood really got up, as clearly it did.

But more than anything, I'm struck with how someone as educated and privelleged as a Harvard University professor is can declare that his mistreatment, which it seems he llargely provoked, must be a racist act just because he is black. That's juvenile "logic" and we really need to get past it.

Let's put it this way, I'm pretty damn sure if I acted as Gates did I too would have been arrested, perhaps more quickly than he was, presuming the cops didn't know I was a Harvard Prof who was bound to make a big stink about profiling, unlawful arrest, etc.

[kchoya]

Oh give me a break, I just read the WaPo story. Here's what Gates said:

"I had to wait in a jail cell," Gates said. "I have mild claustrophobia. The jail cell was very claustrophobic."

AND

"No matter how bad it was going to get, I knew that sooner or later I would get to a phone and one of my friends would be there to help."

You gotta be kidding me. The cops let him go inside and get his ID. They cuffed him in front and let him have his cane. He barely stayed in a jail cell and got to hang out in an interview room with his Harvard colleagues. Does this guy realize just what type of special treatment he received? "He should look into his soul and he should apologize to me," - give me a break.

[Boz]

Jul 21, 2009 14:24:39 GMT -5 @cam said:

Check the photo. Note that the cop in the foreground is...African-American.

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/21/AR2009072101771.html?hpid=topnews

I don't know, pictures can lie sometimes, but seeing that, it sure looks like he was -- to use his own words -- "wolfing."

Like bin, I think I would have been arrested too if I started yelling at the police if they showed up at my door. When dealing with someone who is uncooperative and belligerent, it is their job to subdue that person, no matter how big, small, fit or infirm they may be.

Now, having said that, I agree that the police should have dropped the charges. There's really nothing there and no reason at all to press charges against him. As for whether they needed to take him to the station, I don't know specific police procedures well enough to know how much of that is discretionary and how much is required by "the book." If they had the discretion to do so on scene, they really probably should have let him go there and not taken him to the precinct, IMO.