A reality check...

[hoyasaxa23]

I attended GU during the Ewing era and have lived in the District since graduation, so I hope that you all can believe me when I say that I bleed Hoya blue and I love Georgetown with my entire being. I hardly ever miss a game in person, and my love of Georgetown is not limited to simply the basketball program. GU prepared me for my career, introduced me to my wife, taught me valuable life lessons and has been a loyal institution to me for nearly all my life. However, the "uneasy" thread prompted me to say a few things:

Posters on this board, (and sadly), Georgetown fans everywhere are a bit unrealistic in their perception of our beloved team. Georgetown is not synonymous nationwide with college basketball. We are not seen as a powerhouse, a dynasty or even a year-in, year-out contender. The reality is that while the tradition of the basketball program is rich in relation to the rest of our sports, we were good for a period of time and never returned to dominance.

The culture of student life at Georgetown has never been one that values the athletic program, at least in relation to other programs across the country. Our fan section is relatively tame, dispassionate and uncreative. Compare the GU students, alumni and ordinary fans with those of our conference opponents: UConn, Nova, etc. Their fans are rabid. GU will always be competitive, and under JTIII will consistently be a top-25 team. But GU is not and never will be at the height of college basketball. Recruits come to develop and leave; there is no sense of loyalty... (If Luke Harangody went to GU, is there any doubt he would have stayed in the draft?). Athletes at GU have nothing in common with their peers and fellow students. Fans are neutral, bored and extremely fairweather--when the team is down, fewer and fewer kids attend the games in the city.

Georgetown basketball is fun for us, but the country doesn't see us the way we see ourselves. Let's not be delusional: Georgetown is not a sports school. This isn't Notre Dame where the students drink like savages and attend every sporting event. This isn't the SEC where bimbo girls feign over the athletes. There is little to no national following of GU. We are not Duke or UNC.

So all of this said, let's not get too nervous or excited about anything. We will always be a top 25 team and some years will be better than others. This year we will be an average BE team. Let not our ignorance be blissful: We are not Kentucky, we are not Notre Dame, we are not LSU, we are not even Stanford athletics. Sports are not a huge priority for GU brass, GU students or GU alumni. We hear and answer a much higher calling. Let us see HoyaBall as fun, and nothing more.

Hoya Saxa!!

[strummer8526]

Uh....welcome to the board? Next time, can you leave this thing somewhere else: tinyurl.com/5kkbd3

[hoyasaxa23]

Relax Stummer--No need to be rude. You know it's true.

[sleepy]

This board is really starting to become unbearable. This would be the season Kenner League was postponed for a month.

[HoyasAreHungry]

what the hellllll are u talking about???

[hoyasaxa23]

Get angry but it's only because you are insecure. It's okay... like I said, we will be competitive.

[theexorcist]

Jul 18, 2009 17:44:45 GMT -5 hoyasaxa23 said:

I attended GU during the Ewing era and have lived in the District since graduation, so I hope that you all can believe me when I say that I bleed Hoya blue and I love Georgetown with my entire being. I hardly ever miss a game in person, and my love of Georgetown is not limited to simply the basketball program. GU prepared me for my career, introduced me to my wife, taught me valuable life lessons and has been a loyal institution to me for nearly all my life. However, the "uneasy" thread prompted me to say a few things:

Posters on this board, (and sadly), Georgetown fans everywhere are a bit unrealistic in their perception of our beloved team. Georgetown is not synonymous nationwide with college basketball. We are not seen as a powerhouse, a dynasty or even a year-in, year-out contender. The reality is that while the tradition of the basketball program is rich in relation to the rest of our sports, we were good for a period of time and never returned to dominance.

The culture of student life at Georgetown has never been one that values the athletic program, at least in relation to other programs across the country. Our fan section is relatively tame, dispassionate and uncreative. Compare the GU students, alumni and ordinary fans with those of our conference opponents: UConn, Nova, etc. Their fans are rabid. GU will always be competitive, and under JTIII will consistently be a top-25 team. But GU is not and never will be at the height of college basketball. Recruits come to develop and leave; there is no sense of loyalty... (If Luke Harangody went to GU, is there any doubt he would have stayed in the draft?). Athletes at GU have nothing in common with their peers and fellow students. Fans are neutral, bored and extremely fairweather--when the team is down, fewer and fewer kids attend the games in the city.

Georgetown basketball is fun for us, but the country doesn't see us the way we see ourselves. Let's not be delusional: Georgetown is not a sports school. This isn't Notre Dame where the students drink like savages and attend every sporting event. This isn't the SEC where bimbo girls feign over the athletes. There is little to no national following of GU. We are not Duke or UNC.

So all of this said, let's not get too nervous or excited about anything. We will always be a top 25 team and some years will be better than others. This year we will be an average BE team. Let not our ignorance be blissful: We are not Kentucky, we are not Notre Dame, we are not LSU, we are not even Stanford athletics. Sports are not a huge priority for GU brass, GU students or GU alumni. We hear and answer a much higher calling. Let us see HoyaBall as fun, and nothing more.

Hoya Saxa!!

Wow. I think a sushi chef-style deboning is in order.

1. Georgetown is synonymous with college basketball. The Hoyas are one of the top 20 basketball programs on a historical basis in the country.

2. Georgetown students and fans compare favorably with most good student sections in the country. Georgetown is kind of screwed since they play in a big arena, requiring more attendees than other locales ('Nova is a perfect example - they play most of their games at the DuPont pavilion, only reserving the big pro arena for their good games - you know, like *Georgetown*).

3. Recruits come to develop and leave EVERYWHERE, with one exception - Duke, where Coach K takes five star talent and makes it into talent that is very good at floor-slapping but very bad at advancing past the Sweet Sixteen or becoming a pro success. Georgetown's student-athletes seem to compare favorably with everywhere else (showing up at games, etc.).

4. Georgetown was at the height of college basketball in 1984. They made the Final Four two years ago.

5. Stanford athletics won the Director's Cup, but they're cutting some sports. For a school whose medical center bled it dry, Georgetown has a remarkable commitment to athletics, especially considering the size of the school.

In short, at no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this board is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[daytonahoya31]

yea dude...shut up

[RBHoya]

Your post figures to draw some ire... actually, if I know this board, it will draw many sarcastic remarks and very few serious replies of any variety... Anyhow, some of what you say is true, but some of it isn't.

You are right that we aren't considered a powerhouse program or perennial contender. However, that's what we're striving for. 2 straight big east titles was a good start. Missing the dance last year was a definite step back. We aren't "synonymous with college basketball" for sure and we are certainly not a heavyweight like UNC, UCLA, UK, KU or Duke. We may never be quite at that level. They are truly elite. But we have a good chance to solidify ourselves on that next tier down, where you might find teams like UConn, Arizona, Michigan State, Syracuse, and in recent years places like Texas or UF. We're not there yet but it's within our grasp. Programs are mobile, and people have short memories. We've got good history and tradition to build on, so if we can establish ourselves as perennial contenders in one of the best conferences in America, people's perception of the program will be strong. It's not easy to be a dynasty and not realistic to hope that we're going to usurp the crown of best basketball school in the country anytime soon, but we can absolutely establish ourselves as a school with an excellent basketball program.

As for fans, I think you're right to say we're fair-weather. Our fans simply don't show up for games against mediocre or worse opponents. They show up for big out of conference games and big in-conference games, and they skip the OOC filler + RU/PC/UC/SHU/USF/SJU/Dep. We can debate the causes of that all day but it's true.

But you're going to say Nova fans are rabid and way better than us? Um, no. It would actually be difficult to find 2 more similar fan bases than Georgetown's and Villanovas. The only difference is that they have that small on-campus facility for their small time games. Other than that they're practically identical, Georgetown students are the same kids from somewhere between the Philly suburbs and the NY suburbs, +100 SAT points. (Nobody get on my case, i know im oversimplifying, but they are almost identical to us in terms of the way they turn out for things.) In my experience UConn isn't much better than us either. The 2 best fan bases in the Big East IMO are Pitt (somewhat easy to be enthused when the team is always excellent) and Marquette (they are who we should be looking up to in terms of getting students and alumni to the games consistently and getting people to make noise).


Your Luke Harangody example is totally nullified by 2 words: Roy Hibbert. 2 more: Greg Monroe. And guess what? All recruits want to develop and leave, at every school. Message board people seem to really struggle with this one. If a kid can be a millionaire, he's generally going to leave. Most kids don't aspire to be college basketball stars, they aspire to be NBA stars, get paid millions and live the high life. That's how it goes. College hoops is a vehicle that kids use to try to get drafted, just like high school basketball is a vehicle that kids use to try to get a college scholarship.

Oh, and if Luke Harangody had a good chance of making money, he'd be gone. That's the reason he went back.

Athletes at GU have nothing in common with their peers or fellow students? Wtf? I'd really like to know what Luke Harangody has in common with most of the people at Notre Dame that Jeff Green/Roy Hibbert/Jon Wallace etc didn't have in common with the other students at Georgetown.

By your 4th paragraph I think you're getting repetitive. Nobody thinks we're on-level with UNC or Duke as a program for the time being. But that doesn't mean we aren't a solid basketball school with potential to solidify ourselves as an excellent basketball school. Also, in the rankings of college basketball program popularity (conducted by Harris poll, maybe?) we were a top 10 program nationally as of 1-2 years ago (if somebody still has that info that'd be awesome). I'm sure we've dropped off some after a crappy year last year. But there are still some Georgetown fans around the country who are not alumni, believe it or not. Again, we're not Duke or UNC in that respect but we're not terrible either.

Your 5th paragraph, meh, more of the same. *shrug* We're not an elite, top-shelf program but we're a good program who has a chance to solidify itself as an excellent (though perhaps not elite) program over the next decade. That's fine by me.

[Diablo]

Jul 18, 2009 17:44:45 GMT -5 hoyasaxa23 said:

I attended GU during the Ewing era and have lived in the District since graduation, so I hope that you all can believe me when I say that I bleed Hoya blue and I love Georgetown with my entire being. I hardly ever miss a game in person, and my love of Georgetown is not limited to simply the basketball program. GU prepared me for my career, introduced me to my wife, taught me valuable life lessons and has been a loyal institution to me for nearly all my life. However, the "uneasy" thread prompted me to say a few things:

Posters on this board, (and sadly), Georgetown fans everywhere are a bit unrealistic in their perception of our beloved team. Georgetown is not synonymous nationwide with college basketball. We are not seen as a powerhouse, a dynasty or even a year-in, year-out contender. The reality is that while the tradition of the basketball program is rich in relation to the rest of our sports, we were good for a period of time and never returned to dominance.

The culture of student life at Georgetown has never been one that values the athletic program, at least in relation to other programs across the country. Our fan section is relatively tame, dispassionate and uncreative. Compare the GU students, alumni and ordinary fans with those of our conference opponents: UConn, Nova, etc. Their fans are rabid. GU will always be competitive, and under JTIII will consistently be a top-25 team. But GU is not and never will be at the height of college basketball. Recruits come to develop and leave; there is no sense of loyalty... (If Luke Harangody went to GU, is there any doubt he would have stayed in the draft?). Athletes at GU have nothing in common with their peers and fellow students. Fans are neutral, bored and extremely fairweather--when the team is down, fewer and fewer kids attend the games in the city.

Georgetown basketball is fun for us, but the country doesn't see us the way we see ourselves. Let's not be delusional: Georgetown is not a sports school. This isn't Notre Dame where the students drink like savages and attend every sporting event. This isn't the SEC where bimbo girls feign over the athletes. There is little to no national following of GU. We are not Duke or UNC.

So all of this said, let's not get too nervous or excited about anything. We will always be a top 25 team and some years will be better than others. This year we will be an average BE team. Let not our ignorance be blissful: We are not Kentucky, we are not Notre Dame, we are not LSU, we are not even Stanford athletics. Sports are not a huge priority for GU brass, GU students or GU alumni. We hear and answer a much higher calling. Let us see HoyaBall as fun, and nothing more.

Hoya Saxa!!

seems to me you are more of the fan you describe in the third paragraph than the first

[hoyasaxa23]

RB Hoya--we disagree on several things but I respect and enjoyed your response.

[hoyasaxa23]

Jul 18, 2009 18:07:09 GMT -5 theexorcist said:

Wow. I think a sushi chef-style deboning is in order.

1. Georgetown is synonymous with college basketball. The Hoyas are one of the top 20 basketball programs on a historical basis in the country.

2. Georgetown students and fans compare favorably with most good student sections in the country. Georgetown is kind of screwed since they play in a big arena, requiring more attendees than other locales ('Nova is a perfect example - they play most of their games at the DuPont pavilion, only reserving the big pro arena for their good games - you know, like *Georgetown*).

3. Recruits come to develop and leave EVERYWHERE, with one exception - Duke, where Coach K takes five star talent and makes it into talent that is very good at floor-slapping but very bad at advancing past the Sweet Sixteen or becoming a pro success. Georgetown's student-athletes seem to compare favorably with everywhere else (showing up at games, etc.).

4. Georgetown was at the height of college basketball in 1984. They made the Final Four two years ago.

5. Stanford athletics won the Director's Cup, but they're cutting some sports. For a school whose medical center bled it dry, Georgetown has a remarkable commitment to athletics, especially considering the size of the school.

In short, at no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this board is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

the exorcist! Congratulations and thank-you for proving several of my points!

1. Georgetown is not synonymous with college basketball. Attendance, apparel, media coverage and every other barometer (including on-court success) suggest that GU is an above average school with little to no national following. The only thing GU is famous for is losing to MJ and for housing Ewing before he entered the league. Thanks though for trying.

2. GU's arena is so big that in the rare event that the fans show up AND ALSO care about the game on the court, it still feels like you are in an empty building. It sucks and forever limits the GU fan experience to mediocrity.

3. You make an astute observation about the landscape of college basketball, but "forget" to acknowledge the shocking and disturbing amount of transfers leaving the hilltop.

4. So if you define winning an NC as being at the top of the collegiate basketball world, then GU was only there for a matter of months from spring of '84 to fall of '84, never to return since. Making the Final 4 does not constitute success in the broader spectrum of the game. George Mason doesn't claim to be at the height of college basketball, and they have the same number of F4 appearances as GU in the last 24 years. Arizona won in '97 but doesn't claim to be at the top. UCLA, UNC, Duke, Kentucky etc. are at the top, and will be until any other school can stay relevant on a national scale for a longer period of time.

5. Georgetown being poor at investing and hopeless in generating donations from alumni is hardly an excuse for mediocrity.

Edited. Stay on topic and avoid insulting other posters.
As to #5, you are likely not aware that Georgetown raised $109 million in cash gifts in 2008. I won't call that hopeless..--Admin

[sleepy]

I don't really understand what the point of this post was in the first place. To say the program is mediocre, the fans are bad, the players don't care and we have no chance of getting better? Then you say we need a reality check? Why, does anything this board somehow come off as confident to you? The post right below yours is talking about how they don't like the direction of the program. Atleast half the other posts in all the other thread are about how much they dislike the princeton offense and how we won't get any recruits or wins with it. Sadly enough you probably think higher of our program than half the people on this board do right now, so your "reality check" was pointless. Infact I am surprised someone hasn't come on here to correct you about how with this offense we should in no way ever expect to be a top 25 team again. Or that our players will never be talented enough to make it to another NCAA tournament.

[jgalt]

WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING AROUND HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Im outta here for a few days, let all these crazies move on and wait for kenner to start. Then there will be actually basketball to talk about. Until then ill stick the other boards where the debate at least has substance to it!

[Nevada Hoya]

Jul 18, 2009 17:44:45 GMT -5 hoyasaxa23 said:

Let not our ignorance be blissful: We are not Kentucky, we are not Notre Dame, we are not LSU, we are not even Stanford athletics. Sports are not a huge priority for GU brass, GU students or GU alumni. We hear and answer a much higher calling. Let us see HoyaBall as fun, and nothing more.

Hoya Saxa!!

Heck, Notre Dame isn't even Notre Dame anymore.

[strummer8526]

Jul 18, 2009 17:53:54 GMT -5 hoyasaxa23 said:

Relax Stummer--No need to be rude. You know it's true.

It's also true that 50% of marriages end in divorce, but most people have the common sense not to discuss that at a wedding. You're on a Georgetown fan message board. How well-received did you expect this to be?

[kchoya]

I'm truly ashamed that you are a fellow alum. Please take your self-loathing, attitude and become a fan of some other team. And one more thing, if you'd ventured outside of your DC cocoon in the past 25 years, you'd know what a name the Georgetown program is around the country. This board was just fine without you for many years and I hope it continues without your further presence.

[guru]

Definition of a troll post. Not surprised you don't have anything better to do on a Saturday night. "Thanks though for trying".

Get Lost

[kghoya]

wow another worthless thread.

nice work

[FLHoya]

Apropos of nothing--well, maybe the title of the thread--anybody have an update on how former poster "doseofreality" is doing these days?

I mean, if we're gonna do Hoya Basketball brought to you by The Smiths, we might as well go full-out and bring back some of the favorites from the good old days of retro Hoyatalk.

P.B.R...John Basedow...heck, let's even revoke Van's lifetime ban (okay, self-imposed, but still).