hoyatables
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Post by hoyatables on Sept 2, 2008 23:04:00 GMT -5
Really? Every person who attends religious services believes every word that their minister states? I guess all those Catholic students at Dalghren on Sunday mornings woke up in their own beds that morning. Not that this aimed at 'tables, but boy, some of you people are so stupid you simply can't understand the nuances in analyzing a situation. No, it's not like going to Dalghren. Do you want me to count the ways so it gets through your thick skulls? Here's one: Most people actually choose which church they attend, and even which religion they are a member of. In doing so, most people will choose a church/religion that matches up with their beliefs, etc. If I'm sitting in the pew on Sunday mornings and the pastor keeps speaking out against the Jewish faith, I'm not sticking around that church (unless I subscribed to his anti-semitism). Likewise, if Obama REALLY had a problem with what Rev. Wright was saying, don't you think he would have stopped going to the church well before Super Tuesday. Instead, he sat there week after week for however many years. For many of us, actions speak louder than words and Obama's actions tell me that he believed in the crap Rev. Wright was spitting out. Did he agree with 100% of what Rev. Wright was preaching, I highly doubt it. However, I would submit that if you disagree with the Reverend's thoughts on Ecclesiastes, you probably stick around and wait for a sermon on Deuteronomy. If you disagree with his anti-American diatribes, I think one would be more likely to leave. Heh -- I won't take it too personally -- the page of threads between my post and yours infuriated me, too. I still think the comment was a valid one. Plenty of people select a religion and yet discard certain tenets of what is preached. There are plenty of pro-choice Catholics, and plenty of pro-death penalty Catholics, and plenty of pro-war Catholics, all of whom probably don't see eye to eye with the teachings of the Church and their local ministers. Certainly at some point people do leave, but given how much religion is tied up with family, culture, and identity, it is often a challenge to leave and people will just "tune out" the parts they don't agree with. I'm not commenting on the specifics of Wright and Obama here, just pointing out that there are plenty of Americans who don't necessarily ascribe to everything their preacher tells them on Sundays, and therefore it's not really appropriate to infer that just because Wright said it Obama must believe it. (Whether Obama's judgment in remaining in that church with such an outspoken minister was faulty or misguided or something else . . . well, that's a whole 'nother issue.) |
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FewFAC
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Post by FewFAC on Sept 2, 2008 23:24:28 GMT -5
If McCain wins this election, Reagan will forever be exposed as a fraud. Interesting tradeoff McCain has to balance with Palin. |
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Sept 3, 2008 6:21:55 GMT -5
Sarah Palin's lack of experience is a legitimate issue. Her record as a mayor and as a governor are also legitimate areas of inquiry. Her associations are legitimate. How her religious beliefs might influence her actions as VP and potentially as Pres are legitimate areas to be looked at. The fact that her daughter is pregnant is not but that seems to be the core of what the press has been accenting.
Also, I congratulated Obama for saying family matters are off limit. But, since the press is concentrating on the pregnancy, he needs to come on strong and say "stop it" lest his earlier words be seen as mere political speech.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2008 7:28:15 GMT -5
Sarah Palin's lack of experience is a legitimate issue. Her record as a mayor and as a governor are also legitimate areas of inquiry. Her associations are legitimate. How her religious beliefs might influence her actions as VP and potentially as Pres are legitimate areas to be looked at. The fact that her daughter is pregnant is not but that seems to be the core of what the press has been accenting. Also, I congratulated Obama for saying family matters are off limit. But, since the press is concentrating on the pregnancy, he needs to come on strong and say "stop it" lest his earlier words be seen as mere political speech. Ed - I agree, but he can say "Stop It" all he wants, and it won't stop. The internets is a HUGE series of tubes, and this stuff isn't going away, even if the mainstream media stopped every ounce of this coverage immediately. |
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TC
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Post by TC on Sept 3, 2008 7:30:05 GMT -5
Also, I congratulated Obama for saying family matters are off limit. But, since the press is concentrating on the pregnancy, he needs to come on strong and say "stop it" lest his earlier words be seen as mere political speech. cnn.com : No pregnancy stories abcnews.com : one editorial that mentions the pregnancy in judging Governor Palin as a mother, does not mention Bristol by name cbsnews.com : No pregnancy stories Daily Show : One very ambiguous pregnancy joke that didn't even talk about Bristol, it referrred to a weather map Colbert Report : No mention of pregnancy The main stream media is being VERY VERY careful about this. The Palin family announced this and it got a one-day cycle. Honestly, the Republicans couldn't have asked for much more. |
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Post by hilltopper2000 on Sept 3, 2008 7:33:32 GMT -5
So does everyone agree that the words of David Brickner (Jews for Jesus) when he addressed Sarah Palin's church (with her present) are relevant? From the Politico: Brickner also described terrorist attacks on Israelis as God's "judgment of unbelief" of Jews who haven't embraced Christianity. "Judgment is very real and we see it played out on the pages of the newspapers and on the television. It's very real. When [Brickner's son] was in Jerusalem he was there to witness some of that judgment, some of that conflict, when a Palestinian from East Jerusalem took a bulldozer and went plowing through a score of cars, killing numbers of people. Judgment — you can't miss it." Palin was in church that day, Kroon said, though he cautioned against attributing Brickner’s views to her. www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13098.html |
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hoyaboy1
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Sept 3, 2008 8:59:06 GMT -5
This is why we need more atheists to run for President.
Really, though, a one time speaker isn't equivalent to Wright. However, it isn't a good sign for the church itself or regular pastor.
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Post by strummer8526 on Sept 3, 2008 9:02:52 GMT -5
Sarah Palin's lack of experience is a legitimate issue. Her record as a mayor and as a governor are also legitimate areas of inquiry. Her associations are legitimate. How her religious beliefs might influence her actions as VP and potentially as Pres are legitimate areas to be looked at. The fact that her daughter is pregnant is not but that seems to be the core of what the press has been accenting. Also, I congratulated Obama for saying family matters are off limit. But, since the press is concentrating on the pregnancy, he needs to come on strong and say "stop it" lest his earlier words be seen as mere political speech. Ed--I appreciate when people on either side are consistent, which you are here. It just makes no sense for an argument to be fair game against Barack but off limits with Palin. There can REALLY never be compromise if each side operates with a double standard about what's relevant to a candidate. Also, to the extent that media is still discussing this pregnant daughter, it should probably stop now. Just as a news story, it's worth noting. Voters should be aware of the fact that her family is dealing with this. Everyone knows now. People can make their own decisions on whether that matters. There should now be a national "Alright, nothing to see here, people." There are far more substantive concerns about Palin that are at least worth exploring and checking into. Maybe she doesn't support Alaska breaking away from the U.S., but it's the kind of thing that could be worth some discussion. |
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Sept 3, 2008 9:03:38 GMT -5
So does everyone agree that the words of David Brickner (Jews for Jesus) when he addressed Sarah Palin's church (with her present) are relevant? From the Politico: Brickner also described terrorist attacks on Israelis as God's "judgment of unbelief" of Jews who haven't embraced Christianity. "Judgment is very real and we see it played out on the pages of the newspapers and on the television. It's very real. When [Brickner's son] was in Jerusalem he was there to witness some of that judgment, some of that conflict, when a Palestinian from East Jerusalem took a bulldozer and went plowing through a score of cars, killing numbers of people. Judgment — you can't miss it." Palin was in church that day, Kroon said, though he cautioned against attributing Brickner’s views to her. www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13098.htmlBy viewing this web forum on multiple occasions, you have explicitly endorsed and adopted the beliefs and values of easyed, Bando, AND hifi. Your political prospects are over. |
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Sept 3, 2008 10:03:21 GMT -5
So does everyone agree that the words of David Brickner (Jews for Jesus) when he addressed Sarah Palin's church (with her present) are relevant? From the Politico: Brickner also described terrorist attacks on Israelis as God's "judgment of unbelief" of Jews who haven't embraced Christianity. "Judgment is very real and we see it played out on the pages of the newspapers and on the television. It's very real. When [Brickner's son] was in Jerusalem he was there to witness some of that judgment, some of that conflict, when a Palestinian from East Jerusalem took a bulldozer and went plowing through a score of cars, killing numbers of people. Judgment — you can't miss it." Palin was in church that day, Kroon said, though he cautioned against attributing Brickner’s views to her. www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13098.htmlBy viewing this web forum on multiple occasions, you have explicitly endorsed and adopted the beliefs and values of easyed, Bando, AND hifi. Your political prospects are over. Oh man, if someone really adopted all the positions we hold, the amount of cognitive dissonance would surely drive them insane. |
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Sept 3, 2008 11:33:01 GMT -5
... you have explicitly endorsed and adopted the beliefs and values of easyed, Bando, AND hifi.
That's impossible!
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Sept 3, 2008 12:48:25 GMT -5
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 3, 2008 12:54:33 GMT -5
"Influential US conservative talkshow host Rush Limbaugh called Palin’s selection a “home f***ing run”. He added in an email: “Palin = Guns, Babies, Jesus.”" Limbaugh is wrong, of course. It's "Palin = Guns, Babies, Moose, Jesus." Figured he woulda' known that. ;D |
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Sept 3, 2008 12:56:43 GMT -5
"Influential US conservative talkshow host Rush Limbaugh called Palin’s selection a “home f***ing run”. He added in an email: “Palin = Guns, Babies, Jesus.”" Limbaugh is wrong, of course. It's "Palin = Guns, Babies, Moose, Jesus." Figured he woulda' known that. ;D We apologise for the fault in Boz's post. Those responsible have been sacked. |
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Sept 3, 2008 14:55:53 GMT -5
Also, I congratulated Obama for saying family matters are off limit. But, since the press is concentrating on the pregnancy, he needs to come on strong and say "stop it" lest his earlier words be seen as mere political speech. cnn.com : No pregnancy stories abcnews.com : one editorial that mentions the pregnancy in judging Governor Palin as a mother, does not mention Bristol by name cbsnews.com : No pregnancy stories Daily Show : One very ambiguous pregnancy joke that didn't even talk about Bristol, it referrred to a weather map Colbert Report : No mention of pregnancy The main stream media is being VERY VERY careful about this. The Palin family announced this and it got a one-day cycle. Honestly, the Republicans couldn't have asked for much more. If you're using the Daily Show and Colbert as examples of "the press" then we're all in trouble. The New York Times's webpage on Tuesday had at least three stories about Bristol Palin's pregnancy CNN is tying the young girl to a series on sex-education MSNBC is all over the father of the child Slate has a 'Name Bristol Palin's Baby' contest Stretching some, even US Weekly has a picture of Palin on the cover with the headline 'Babies, Lies, and Scandal' on its cover Tell me again how the press is is being very careful on this... |
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Sept 3, 2008 15:18:31 GMT -5
Good points kc. I intentionally refused to even comment when I saw that laundry list with the Daily Show and Colbert.
Shifting back to Sarah Palin, I think that the Pubs aren't taking the right approach. They could make much of this work in their favor. Everytime the issue of "experience" arises, they need to immediately use it to their advantage. First they need to talk not about "experience" but rather about accomplishments. They could start with her being a Mayor of a small Alaskan town. There were several projects at that level that she was able to make work. None of these alone were major earth shaking accomplishments, but she was successful. Compare that to Obama, who was a college student. Next highlight her accomplishments on that ethics committee and how she ran into corruption and attacked it. Then she decides to run for Governor and encounters the corruption in her very own party, and attacked it successfully, throwing out many of the culprits. Then she runs against the Democratic opponent and defeats him. Then as governor she attacks more corruption and big oil. She succeeds in the construction of a pipeline they had been trying to get through the system for nearly 30 years, while at the same time saving the state millions of dollars by opening up a competitive bidding system instead of the corruption that had been firmly entrenched for a couple of decades. Then she succeeds in getting a rebate for her citizens from the big oil companies. Once again, these are solid, though not spectacular accomplishments, but if you continually parallel them to what Obama has done, there is no contest. And you don't have to do it in a confrontational fashion. You don't belittle Obama, as much as you simply point out the details. Eventually you get to the point where she is attacking corruption while Obama in ingratiating himself with one of the biggest special interest driven groups in the Chicago democratic party. Finally you get to the point where Obama has made it all the way to Senator for all of some 140 plus days and is then running for President.
I think that strategy would be golden. Because everytime the democrats or a liberal host tries to attack Palin's "experience," you could immediately turn it around to her "accomplishments," because when it comes right down to it, regardless of what your particular political opinion is, Obama's list of accomplishments is incredibly thin. What accomplishments does he offer to justify being President of the United States? Sarah Palin's accomplishments are certainly far more substantial, and she is "only" the VP candidate.
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TC
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Post by TC on Sept 3, 2008 15:19:09 GMT -5
The G.O.P. is flying the kid to the convention and had him meet McCain for a photo-op, yet his name is some kind of state secret?
And yes, I do think the media has been pretty measured about things. I haven't seen any of the MySpace pictures of Bristol Palin with tequila or beer shown anywhere, and an article that mentions Sarah Palin's daughter's teen pregnancy in a general article about teen pregnancy trends (Gloucester, Jamie Lynn Spears) does not quite seem out of bounds.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Sept 3, 2008 15:30:39 GMT -5
The G.O.P. is flying the kid to the convention and had him meet McCain for a photo-op, yet his name is some kind of state secret? And yes, I do think the media has been pretty measured about things. I haven't seen any of the MySpace pictures of Bristol Palin with tequila or beer shown anywhere, and an article that mentions Sarah Palin's daughter's teen pregnancy in a general article about teen pregnancy trends (Gloucester, Jamie Lynn Spears) does not quite seem out of bounds. No, but somehow this picture leaked out: deadspin.com/5044945/sarah-palins-former-sports-director-tells-all |
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Sept 3, 2008 15:38:05 GMT -5
The G.O.P. is flying the kid to the convention and had him meet McCain for a photo-op, yet his name is some kind of state secret? And yes, I do think the media has been pretty measured about things. I haven't seen any of the MySpace pictures of Bristol Palin with tequila or beer shown anywhere, and an article that mentions Sarah Palin's daughter's teen pregnancy in a general article about teen pregnancy trends (Gloucester, Jamie Lynn Spears) does not quite seem out of bounds. No, but somehow this picture leaked out: deadspin.com/5044945/sarah-palins-former-sports-director-tells-allAre you familiar with Photoshop? And humor? |
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Sept 3, 2008 16:21:43 GMT -5
Are you familiar with Photoshop? And humor? Yes, and that's a perfect example. Actually, that's an example of some very good photoshop work. What's your point? |
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