hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Sept 2, 2008 15:47:29 GMT -5
There was a degree of "tongue-in-cheek" to my comment. But if you are going to prop up Obama's record as a strength, then it is totally fair game to point out the numerous questionable areas as well. The bottom line is that Obama has a rather long history of influence from highly questionable sources. The fact that he saw the need to sever ties with Wright only further proves this point. His Marxist mentor also deserves to be on this list. As I mentioned in another thread, if McCain had a 20 year relationship with a leader in the KKK, or went to a vocal anti-Semitic advocate for the Arian nation, then the story would be front page material literally daily until after the election. Wow...so much for your argument HiFi....wrong as usual! bravenewfilms.org/blog/38133-mccain-s-spiritual-guide-wants-america-to-destroy-islamNo one is suggesting that everyone who supports a particular candidate is a model citizen or a role model. Certainly Hagee and Parsley are radicals in their own right. But there is a huge difference between receiving an endorsement from someone, and effectively endorsing him. It is like a broken record, but you simply cannot just dismiss it: Obama was an active part of Jeremiah Wright's church for 20 years! Rev. Wright married Barrack and Michelle, in addition to baptizing their children. That is a far, far cry from a political endorsement. Now I don't know the level of advisement that Parsley had for McCain. It is possible that that relationship is akin to Obama's Marxist mentor, but certainly neither the endorsement from Hagee or Parsley can remotely compare to Obama's relationship with Wright. Lastly, even if someone is predisposed to associate with one of these radicals, then I would think it is far better to do so with the one supporting America than with the one attacking Her. Note, that I am not giving approval for either such radical beliefs but if it comes down to a "one or the other" situation, then it is far better to be on our side than theirs. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2008 15:51:31 GMT -5
Consider something like "Palin Family Practices what it Preaches: 17 Year old Pregnant Daughter to Keep Child and Marry the Father." Sub-head: "Wouldn't Have Been Necessary If They Had Practiced What They Preach on Abstinence in the First Place" |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2008 16:01:06 GMT -5
Can we close the book on Jeremiah Wright? I think we can all agree that it's possible to have a close, significant, influential, formative, long-term relationship with someone without internalizing that person's beliefs and values. Bristol Palin has lived under Sarah Palin's roof for 17 years and she doesn't believe in abstinence. Wow. Just wow. Let's ignore Wright. And I'm a Republican, so take this with a grain of salt. But I promise you that, if the Democratic Party is going to make it a talking point that Sarah Palin is a failure as a mother (or, to make it less sexist, a failure as a parent) because her daughter disagreed with her, they will lose EVERYWHERE. Read what I wrote, not what you think. People think that Obama agrees with everything that Wright believes because of his relationship with him. By that same logic, Bristol Palin should believe everything her mother believes, having been raised by her and everything. Also, 17-year-old Bristol is apparently wise enough to listen to what her mother has preached, distinguish that with which she agrees from that with which she disagrees, and make her own responsible, conscious decision to get knocked up. Ivy-League educated, 48-year-old Barack is not smart enough to filter anything said by Wright and believes all of his craziness word-for-word. |
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Sept 2, 2008 16:01:49 GMT -5
claiming the results of gustav as a victory due to proper planning is not 100% correct. From the way I hear it from friends from New Orleans a lot of the levies still aren't fully prepared and if Gustav had been stronger or stayed over new orleans longer then it could've been another disaster.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 2, 2008 16:04:38 GMT -5
So, we've gone from comparing Obama to his Republican counterpart, John McCain....
....to comparing Obama (and Obama comparing himself) to the vice presidential candidate.....
....to now comparing Obama to a 17-year old??
What's next, comparing Obama to the Palin family dog?
You're kind of setting the bar pretty low for your guy, aren't you?
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Sept 2, 2008 16:09:53 GMT -5
Consider something like "Palin Family Practices what it Preaches: 17 Year old Pregnant Daughter to Keep Child and Marry the Father." Sub-head: "Wouldn't Have Been Necessary If They Had Practiced What They Preach on Abstinence in the First Place" Fair enough, but that is my point. Some stories relate good news. Others convey bad news. Still others are non-qualitative in nature. But the headlines are are different story. They can give a positive or negative spin all by themselves, regardless of the context of the story. |
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Sept 2, 2008 16:18:15 GMT -5
This is getting ridiculous. In general, at least with regards to political ideology, generally ed, Boz, kc, HiFi and some others will be more or less in agreement. Generally, Bando, strummer, cam, drumsgobang and others will be in relative agreement. Stating that much over and over in different ways is just plain silly. We all know that much.
ed made a very good point with fatual support, that there was a very apparent slant to how the news was covered on a particular day. The particular factors in this or that particular story are not the point. We understand the general view that we are all coming from on those issues. With regard to ed's particular point however, I think he made a sound argument.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2008 16:29:26 GMT -5
So, we've gone from comparing Obama to his Republican counterpart, John McCain.... ....to comparing Obama (and Obama comparing himself) to the vice presidential candidate..... ....to now comparing Obama to a 17-year old?? What's next, comparing Obama to the Palin family dog? You're kind of setting the bar pretty low for your guy, aren't you? C'mon, Boz...we all know the dog has far more executive experience. That dog once decided all by himself to take a crap on the neighbor's lawn. Everyone knows that Obama doesn't get our of bed in the morning without calling Jeremiah Wright first. ;D |
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Sept 2, 2008 16:47:22 GMT -5
One more note on the Wright issue:
It is clear that Barrack Obama sees the danger in associating with such a nutcase. Obama severed all ties with Wright. Now given that is the case, why was he in such a relationship in the first place -- especially for some 20 years!
There can really only be 3 answers:
1. Wright changed -- 20 years ago, he wasn't the radical anti-American racist that he is now.
2. Obama has ulterior motives -- While such a relationship helped further his career in Chicago and in the State of Illinois, it harms his success Nationally.
or
3. A little of each, 1 and 2.
The problem with claiming 1 is that there are copies of every sermon out there for the past 20 years. Remember, one of the more popular -- and in my mind, the most damning -- came from some 7 years back. Just 5 days after the terrorist attack which took 5000 innocent American lives and cost the Country Billions of dollars, Wright was leading his congregation in a celebration of those attacks. That is simply inexcusable.
That leaves #2. I honestly think that is the real answer. It doesn't really answer the question why Obama had the relationship in the first place, but it answers the question why he ended it. Personally, that isn't good enough, but that is really his only choice.
I keep reading people saying "Obama doesn't agree with everything Jeremiah Wright has to say, any more than others agree with every single thing their pastor says," but that is nothing but a copout. These aren't one or two stray diatribes from an otherwise sound religious preacher. But rather these radical views define the core beliefs of Wright. I just can't see how the left is willing to give Obama a free pass on this one, just because he is "one of them."
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HoyaNyr320
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Post by HoyaNyr320 on Sept 2, 2008 16:50:29 GMT -5
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Sept 2, 2008 16:56:34 GMT -5
Ok, seriously if you want to talk about "Wright is evil and shows Obama is going to enslave all the whites" or "OMG liberal media", start a new thread. This thread's topic is McCain's selection of Palin.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2008 16:58:51 GMT -5
Ok, seriously if you want to talk about "Wright is evil and shows Obama is going to enslave all the whites" or "OMG liberal media", start a new thread. This thread's topic is McCain's selection of Palin. Todd Palin is a womanizer. That is all |
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Sept 2, 2008 17:00:23 GMT -5
Nyr320 wrote: He then went to Chicago and helped support the community there. And his church. Yes! He's a religious man. I'm glad you pointed that out. The church he belongs to has also done great things for the city of Chicago. You are wise beyond your years and FU education HiFi! Oh and its an evangelical church - Obama understands those voters better. |
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Sept 2, 2008 17:00:47 GMT -5
Ok, seriously if you want to talk about "Wright is evil and shows Obama is going to enslave all the whites" or "OMG liberal media", start a new thread. This thread's topic is McCain's selection of Palin. Todd Palin is a womanizer. That is all Jesus Mary and Joseph... |
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Sept 2, 2008 17:16:54 GMT -5
No. Those are totally different circumstances. I wouldn't go to the same church for 20 years if I didn't believe what the pastor was preaching. On the other hand, I didn't really have a choice as to who my parents were or what they were teaching me. Really? Every person who attends religious services believes every word that their minister states? I guess all those Catholic students at Dalghren on Sunday mornings woke up in their own beds that morning. Not that this aimed at 'tables, but boy, some of you people are so stupid you simply can't understand the nuances in analyzing a situation. No, it's not like going to Dalghren. Do you want me to count the ways so it gets through your thick skulls? Here's one: Most people actually choose which church they attend, and even which religion they are a member of. In doing so, most people will choose a church/religion that matches up with their beliefs, etc. If I'm sitting in the pew on Sunday mornings and the pastor keeps speaking out against the Jewish faith, I'm not sticking around that church (unless I subscribed to his anti-semitism). Likewise, if Obama REALLY had a problem with what Rev. Wright was saying, don't you think he would have stopped going to the church well before Super Tuesday. Instead, he sat there week after week for however many years. For many of us, actions speak louder than words and Obama's actions tell me that he believed in the crap Rev. Wright was spitting out. Did he agree with 100% of what Rev. Wright was preaching, I highly doubt it. However, I would submit that if you disagree with the Reverend's thoughts on Ecclesiastes, you probably stick around and wait for a sermon on Deuteronomy. If you disagree with his anti-American diatribes, I think one would be more likely to leave. |
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Sept 2, 2008 17:17:19 GMT -5
Last time I checked, this thread was about Palin and not about why the GOP posters on this board don't like Obama. I knew that before I read the thread. The real question is "Does Palin add anything to the ticket that will help McCain win the election?" The answer to that question is a resounding "no." In fact there are reasons to think that he has saddled himself with a candidate who distracts him and keeps him off message when he's 8 point behind in the polls.
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TC
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Post by TC on Sept 2, 2008 17:41:33 GMT -5
StPetersburgHoya's right, let's talk about Sarah Palin's crazy theologian, Pastor Ed Kalnins :
About voting for John Kerry :
"I'm not going tell you who to vote for, but if you vote for this particular person, I question your salvation. I'm sorry."
and on George Bush
"I hate criticisms towards the President," he said, "because it's like criticisms towards the pastor -- it's almost like, it's not going to get you anywhere, you know, except for hell. That's what it'll get you."
and then there's some stuff that vaguely touches on Jesus being in "war mode" and that we should be terrorists and suicide bombers for Jesus and trying to turn the war on terror into some sort of crusade.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 2, 2008 17:42:26 GMT -5
The real question is "Does Palin add anything to the ticket that will help McCain win the election?" The answer to that question is a resounding "no." In fact there are reasons to think that he has saddled himself with a candidate who distracts him and keeps him off message when he's 8 point behind in the polls. A. Let's see where he is in the polls next week. B. I believe someone once wrote "just because you say something, that doesn't make it so." So, you have clearly written off Sarah Palin as someone who brings nothing to the ticket, despite pretty strong evidence to the contrary that she has energized conservatives ($10 million in one weekend, 17,000 at a campaign stop), and more than a little evidence that she has a good chance of bringing in moderate women to the ticket. No, not hardline feminists, but hell, Geraldine Ferraro more or less came out the other day and said she was thinking of voting for McCain/Palin. You can say she's ust bitter, but I'll bet she's not the only one. And I think there are a lot of women voters for for whom abortion is not the be all-end all of a presidential choice. |
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Post by hilltopper2000 on Sept 2, 2008 17:50:42 GMT -5
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Sept 2, 2008 18:00:37 GMT -5
Good Lord, are you serious? The media is starting to get desperate!
Really? $3.9 million instead of $5 million for a Covenant House program constitutes "not supporting teen mothers."
Do you have any idea the different types of programs Covenant House supports? Yes, there is a teen pregnancy center. There are also a number of other programs that have nothing to do with teen pregnancy.
If you want to criticize her for cutting spending to a social program, that's fine, and more than fair. But she is running on a reputation for eliminating wasteful spending. It's not like she's hiding that, you know?
Sweet Jesus, the number of non-news stories today is mind-boggling.
Oh and yeah, that whole Independence Party thing turned out to be bogus too.
Back to the drawing board, I guess. Let's see what else we can find to smear her.
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