Locker
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Post by Locker on Jul 22, 2008 19:49:43 GMT -5
So what's the head-to-head tally between Duke and GU in recruiting battles the last couple of years?
I have us with Monroe, Thompson, and Riley -- though Riley didn't have an offer from Duke, I don't think (not sure about Hollis).
Duke won out with both Plumlees (didn't they both have offers from us?) and Andre Dawkins (who may or may not have had one from us).
We probably have the edge at this point, but it'd be nice keep them off of either Hairston or Thornton to maintain it.
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idhoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by idhoya on Jul 22, 2008 21:14:36 GMT -5
Again, Dawkins didn't have an offer from GU. Thornton and Hairston do.
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Post by shf9 on Aug 6, 2008 12:46:18 GMT -5
Duke trying to change their image right now--as they are seen as pansies who just fire 3's and flop--oh wait--that is pretty much a reality of their past 2 teams--but they win due to a mediocre ACC the past 2 years and fact they had gone pretty soft in non conference and not taken many risks. Seems K is trying to go back to the Elton Brand, Maggette, Carrawell, etc.. days and get more athletic/tough--which he hasn't had in a LONG time. K should never get a big time post player--the guy has no clue how to coach interior play--he is the reason Boozer and McRoberts were 2nd Round Picks--and Brand left there before K could mess him up and have him retrieve 3pt misses as his scoring option. hey all. duke fan here. i signed up to check out what g-town fans are saying about their recruits, seeing as we pursue many of the same these days. i have great respect for G-town's current program and their history, so hopefully you won't have to ride me out of here on a rail. fwiw, duke never offered Hollis T, although we almost certainly would have and will if there are any legs to those decommitment rumors. we also never really pursued Riley. the assistants evaluated him a couple of times and decided he wasn't what we were looking for. i believe they were looking for more immediate offensive help and decided there were better options in the 2010 class (namely, Josh Smith and Hairston). We're pretty confident about Thornton and Hairston due to confidence of some of our most reliable insiders and interviews with Dawkins, Hairston, and Thornton stating their enthusiasm about the possibility of playing together in college. As for the above quotation, I don't think this has anything to do with changing our image, because the players don't see Duke the same way rival fans do. They see an offense that is free-flowing and let's anybody take a shot at any time. That's why we have 3 5-star players signed up already for the next three season with the distinct possibility of several more jumping on soon.
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hoyaLS05
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoyaLS05 on Aug 6, 2008 13:14:49 GMT -5
Anyone care to address "those decommitment rumors?"
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Post by shf9 on Aug 6, 2008 13:21:12 GMT -5
^ Sorry if those have been debunked. They're still floating around here and there.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on Aug 6, 2008 13:21:38 GMT -5
They've been addressed already. Hollis is a Hoya. Rumor was started on a UCLA site.
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Post by shf9 on Aug 6, 2008 13:29:00 GMT -5
Sounds about right. Again, apologies for bringing it up.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Aug 6, 2008 13:31:15 GMT -5
Duke trying to change their image right now--as they are seen as pansies who just fire 3's and flop--oh wait--that is pretty much a reality of their past 2 teams--but they win due to a mediocre ACC the past 2 years and fact they had gone pretty soft in non conference and not taken many risks. Seems K is trying to go back to the Elton Brand, Maggette, Carrawell, etc.. days and get more athletic/tough--which he hasn't had in a LONG time. K should never get a big time post player--the guy has no clue how to coach interior play--he is the reason Boozer and McRoberts were 2nd Round Picks--and Brand left there before K could mess him up and have him retrieve 3pt misses as his scoring option. hey all. duke fan here. i signed up to check out what g-town fans are saying about their recruits, seeing as we pursue many of the same these days. i have great respect for G-town's current program and their history, so hopefully you won't have to ride me out of here on a rail. fwiw, duke never offered Hollis T, although we almost certainly would have and will if there are any legs to those decommitment rumors. we also never really pursued Riley. the assistants evaluated him a couple of times and decided he wasn't what we were looking for. i believe they were looking for more immediate offensive help and decided there were better options in the 2010 class (namely, Josh Smith and Hairston). We're pretty confident about Thornton and Hairston due to confidence of some of our most reliable insiders and interviews with Dawkins, Hairston, and Thornton stating their enthusiasm about the possibility of playing together in college. As for the above quotation, I don't think this has anything to do with changing our image, because the players don't see Duke the same way rival fans do. They see an offense that is free-flowing and let's anybody take a shot at any time. That's why we have 3 5-star players signed up already for the next three season with the distinct possibility of several more jumping on soon. Duke wouldn't know what to do with DaShonte Riley--he'd have been Casey Sanders/Michael Thompson all over again. So him "not fitting" makes sense. He and Duke made wise decision. "Free Flowing" or "3 Firing"? Perimeter players should love Duke--it's a wide open offense for them--anyone who is inside/out--that is different story.Believe Duke needs to address that. Josh Hairston isn't Grant Hill--he's a PF who can go outside--and has a nice shot--and could develop into an NBA SF--but he's a collegiate PF, while a lot of Duke people compare him to Grant Hill. Andre Dawkins is a great player--and will be outstanding for Duke. Tyler Thornton--excellent leader in a loaded year for PG talent in DC/MD/VA area. Josh Smith--I see him staying out West. "Free Flowing" offense is fun to watch--but Duke has always been free flowing--it's just they insist on hoisting a lot of 3's and have no inside game lately. They also have lack of quickness and athletes--which is why Gerald Henderson stands out so much--and I believe they are trying to change/address that and go back to more athletic/naturally gifted players--because they need to if they plan on winning come March.
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Post by shf9 on Aug 6, 2008 13:46:55 GMT -5
I haven't seen any comparisons of Hairston and Grant Hill. Maybe Harrison Barnes and Grant Hill but none with Hairston. I've seen some Marvin Williams comparisons around though.
I'll take the dig about Riley, although Sanders came up pretty big for us during his career. If JTIII can do something with him, more power to him, but there's a reason he plummeted down every ranking this year (and subsequently made sure he committed to G-town shortly after those ranking updates appeared).
I'm going to stick with "Free Flowing." Our better post players have never had trouble getting theirs, regardless of the 3-point shooting.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Aug 6, 2008 14:03:54 GMT -5
Being an ACC post player and a post player are two different things.
You don't know much about Riley--and if you are going to be a member of this board--do your homework before giving some friggin ACC/Duker homer viewpoint. If you have seen the kid play and not paid attention to ACC--specifically Duke/UNC slanted scouting networks you would understand why he "plummeted" in rankings. Amazingly--he "shined" at the LeBron Camp--once he got away from being mis-used by his AAU team. His HS team was showcasing other players--and has 5-6 Division 1 players on it--and they shared the ball. Riley had his share of big games-but when they went away from him--as they did in State Quarterfinals against a team he had a near triple double against-they would lose. But "gurus" dont' bring that up--because most don't know how to evaluate big men. AAU ball is not going to showcase bigs-unless you are athletic--which Riley is--and nobody has doubted his athletic ability--but you'll see soon enough.
Duke post players who succeed are power forwards--and not Centers.
Harrison Barnes is a nice player--but if he wasn't from Iowa-people wouldn't act as if he is next coming. It's got more to do with them being shocked that someone who can play like that is from Iowa. Last player like that from Iowa--was Ricky Davis.
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Post by shf9 on Aug 6, 2008 14:12:13 GMT -5
Seen Riley and read a lot about him. John Riek also "shined" at the Lebron Camp at one point. I don't mean to compare the two, but one shining moment does not an All-American make. I won't argue about the AAU point, although Riley's offensive shortcomings were a reason they went away from him. He's a very nice player, however, and potential defensive superstar, which is why so many top programs were after him.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on Aug 6, 2008 14:14:33 GMT -5
So let's see--we've had a Duke fan who "admires the Hoya program" come over and:
1. Bring up a FALSE rumor that was started on UCLA board by an uniformed person which was quickly put away--months ago.
2. Take a shot at DaShonte Riley
3. Hype Duke's "free flowing" offense and praise Casey Sanders--who was a HS McDonald's All American--based on signing with Duke more then his play and was basically Ben Gillery
On this site--we like to compare Josh Hairston to Jeff Green--but that might be hard to see--since you are not a Hoya fan.
Enough about Duke--if you want to talk about them and try and recruit for them--do that **** on your own board--or the Rivals/Scout boards--where they cater to all things ACC. This is a Big East team, so we actually have to worry about more then 1 team in our league to compete for titles with and we also have numerous recruits who were not ranked high that end up as good--if not superior to the automatic McDonald's All Americans due to who you sign with--which Duke/UNC fans don't understand. I''m not trying to be a jerk--but it's reality. Riley is 10 times the player now that Casey Sanders was leaving Duke--but you choose to think otherwise because Duke didn't offer him and his "ranking" plummeted,--and name the last TRUE CENTER Duke produced who was productive? Cherokee Parks is how far I'd go back--but maybe I'm missing someone.
Anyhow--you want to talk about CBB--welcome. You want to downtalk Georgetown's style of play, their recruits, etc...then take a hike.
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Post by shf9 on Aug 6, 2008 14:17:58 GMT -5
I apologized for the Hollis comment, and you attacked Duke's big men. I also called Riley a very nice player. And last time I checked Casey Sanders made significant contributions to a National Championship team.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on Aug 6, 2008 14:25:43 GMT -5
I apologized for the Hollis comment, and you attacked Duke's big men. I also called Riley a very nice player. And last time I checked Casey Sanders made significant contributions to a National Championship team. I didn't attack Duke's big men--said they don't know how to develop Centers--which they don't. When you think of a TRUE CENTER who has shined at Duke--the last successful guy is Cherokee Parks--and he was decent--but touted as next Bill Walton. He might smoke like Bill--but that doens't count. ;D Am I overlooking Crawford Palmer, Greg Newton, Erik Meek, Brian Zoubek, Taymon Domzalski, Michael Thompson, Casey Sanders, Martin Nessley, or were they just so-so? Ala Abdelnaby was decent--and if you consider Laettner a Center--he was one of the great collegiate players ever--I think he was a PF--but that is my opinion. Evaluating a PF playing Center and a Center are two different things. Shelden Williams, Boozer, Brand, all were PF's who played post and that is my point. I'm being biased--but I refuse to have any Duke/UNC fan talk about Center play or prospects because they don't have true centers or develop them consistently-by their own choice or not.
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Post by shf9 on Aug 6, 2008 14:29:46 GMT -5
Fair enough. Let's start over.
I would argue that Williams and Boozer were real centers. Boozer plays center a lot for Utah, and I'm sure Shelden would if he got off the bench. Williams spent his entire career in the paint for Duke; I think that qualifies him as a center.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Aug 6, 2008 14:30:08 GMT -5
I'm going to stick with "Free Flowing." Our better post players have never had trouble getting theirs, regardless of the 3-point shooting. hmmm, just like Shelden Williams, right? sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=260210046BOOM goes the dynamite!
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Post by shf9 on Aug 6, 2008 14:35:09 GMT -5
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by RDF on Aug 6, 2008 14:39:42 GMT -5
Utah was looking at Hibbert because they don't have a CENTER--but this is going nowhere.
What you define as a true Center isn't--but I can't expect you to understand because there are very few true centers left in basketball--which is why so many evaluations are wrong at HS stage of kids careers.
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Post by shf9 on Aug 6, 2008 14:45:52 GMT -5
I understand what you consider a "true center," no doubt the Ewings, Mutombos, Mournings, and Hibberts being the model, but I'm going to argue that the role of the center has greatly changed and is no longer defined by what those "true centers" offered.
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on Aug 6, 2008 14:49:59 GMT -5
The only thing I can give Sheldon is Candice Parker. Nice choice. Other than that he's a bum.
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