Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2008 6:42:03 GMT -5
RE: Duke's new recruits. Rather than our game against Davidson, I wonder how much Team USA's gold medal affected their decision. When you have players like Kobe, Lebron, and Duwayne singing coach K's praises, it has to have a positive effect on Duke's recruiting.
Jerry
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Sept 15, 2008 7:10:47 GMT -5
i agree with jerry. the olympic basketball team was a month long duke recruiting video. not to mention, we weren't even in the final 2 for hairston, va tach was. a great player...yes. do i wish we got him...yes. we didn't. let's move on. there are plenty of great players left out there for us to get.
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Sept 15, 2008 8:52:06 GMT -5
Now this is some funny stuff to read, one of the boards resident stealth trolls(dhall) floats the davidson game and people go flying. Here is the deal with hairston and thornton, it is about a crack dealer turned aau guru(pimp). That is the bottom line. Like I said in the other thread, congrats to Keith Stephens for taking over Nike's local AAU program. Because the script is about to get flipped. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) rdf/B&G, since you are 2 of my fav posters... just hug it out. We all have our faults. B&G gets a little over the top when there is bad recruiting news, and I have to ignore rdf for a few days after a Gtown loss(yikes). Then again the board would be boring without the occasional family feud. Hey MCI, Weeds is about to jump the Shark so we will have to find another show to argue about. I'm thinking House, great show. But I can't watch it on a full stomach ;D Hey, who you calling stealth troll? I don't even know what that means ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) All I was saying was that a grand total of one appearance past the Sweet 16 during the time any kid currently in high school was out of diapers is something we still have to overcome if we are competing against Duke, UNC, etc. for recruits. Nothing specific about the Davidson game or our system or any lack of confidence in the staff to get it done. We are clearly on the rise and will get great players, but you just can't hold up our resume for any time beyond the past 2 years against one of the so-called "elites" yet. We'll still get ours, but losing out on these two kids is a bit of a reality check, that's all.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Sept 15, 2008 11:47:16 GMT -5
Getting away from the personal comments, whether it be criticism about inaccurate predictions or calling people "haters"...
It's a bummer to lose Hairston, in particular. From the articles I've read, it sounds like they were really comfortable with Coach K and for Josh, his parents were really pushing a situation where his extended family could see him play.
I think people here sometimes forget that we have about 1/20th the info that these players have when making a decision. When talking about Davidson, it can't have helped, but I really doubt it was anywhere near a deciding factor. Just like how most people make decisions like this -- there's a lot more gut and feel involved than detailed dissection of measurables.
It's a blow, because Hairston is a great fit for the Jeff Green role (and frankly, I think it's a bit of a mistake for him, but whatever) and because players like that are few and far between. That said, as other folks have pointed out, 2010 is loaded, and there are a ton of players out there.
We're very likely to get some very good commits, and there's so little difference between twenty points of rankings and actual on court production. This staff has shown an ability to win -- and right now I still think we'll get talent good enough to win.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Sept 15, 2008 12:28:17 GMT -5
How could anyone name their child Nadir? Well, in fact, the Arabic meaning for the name is quite positive: rare or precious. Rather lost track of this in all the Hairston/Thornton news. This is interesting. You learn something every day.
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CaliHoya
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Post by CaliHoya on Sept 15, 2008 14:58:19 GMT -5
i agree with jerry. the olympic basketball team was a month long duke recruiting video. not to mention, we weren't even in the final 2 for hairston, va tach was. a great player...yes. do i wish we got him...yes. we didn't. let's move on. there are plenty of great players left out there for us to get. Team USA definitely played a part. In fact, Coach K used Team USA video to sell the players on the system. Here's a snippet from Duke's Rivals site: "We went in today about 11 this morning and had lunch and then we played a few games and after that me, 'Dre, Josh, the coaches and our families went into the media room and watched a video on the USA team," Thornton said. "After that we walked out of the media room and each of us met individually with Coach K. We were in the practice facility and we only talked for about five or ten minutes. "He was talking about the USA team and how he is going to bring things back from that to the basketball team. I just knew right then while we were talking that I wanted to commit. I just told him, 'I'm ready to go'.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Sept 15, 2008 15:49:22 GMT -5
Can't blame him for that. It's a great selling point and he's using it. I imagine Coach Boeheim will be doing the same thing.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Sept 15, 2008 16:31:54 GMT -5
Wow... how do you compete with that?? Leave it to coack k to milk this gold medal thing for everything its worth.
On a separate note, some thoughts on the importance of winning the next couple of years. Building on the momentum we had from an exciting new coach as well as from Jeff and his supporting cast... ie, a strong Sweet 16 showing in 2006 followed by an amazing FF run in 2007... we basically were able to secure 4 top recruiting classes in consecutive years (i'm including deshonte and riley for next year). Having said that, IMO... the next two years are going to be critically important for us in terms of which way the pendulum swings in getting top talent. Like many on this board have said, if the program consistently performs... we will continue to attract greatness. By contrast, if we have a string of dissappointing seasons.... getting top quality players will become more and more of a struggle.
If Monroe doesn't live up to expectations, our sophmores don't develop the way we hope, we get knocked out ot the tourney early each of the next two years... the hype revolving around the program will wane and we drop from a top 10 program to a top 30 or 40 program that struggles to remain relevant in the national picture. While I don't necessarily think this will happen given all our talent and our stud coach... two things have to happen over the course of the next two years. (1) We need to remain competative this year and make the tourney, and (2) we need to make a deep run in the tourney next year. I am confident we will.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Sept 15, 2008 16:49:51 GMT -5
Wow... how do you compete with that?? Leave it to coack k to milk this gold medal thing for everything its worth. We all know the answer to that... win, baby, win. And let Coach K do what he has been doing with college players the past few years... not live up to expectations.
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mdhoya97
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Post by mdhoya97 on Sept 15, 2008 17:19:19 GMT -5
as with everything, the more you win the better you do..... it is amazing how much we have accomplished in the last 4-5 years. if we win, it can only get better.
ps.. we play duke... so all we have to do it put up and then they will shut up..
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Post by gtowndynasty on Sept 15, 2008 17:21:57 GMT -5
I dont post on this site that often, but I love to read the posts as they pertain to the current and future status of the program. But from someone that has spoken with several current recruits and has been actively looking at recruiting over the past few years, I think g'town's issue is becoming very clear.
The system JT3 runs, albeit successful, it does not cater to the 5* guards/wings that envision themselves as one and done players b/c the notion is that they wont be able to do their thing when they get here. I dont argue with the results it has b/c it is very effective, but when you talk about your Xavier Henry's, Lance Stevenson's, Dominic Cheek's, and Dexter Strickland's you are talking about players who want to have a good showing in their freshman season. In other words, come in and get to dominate the ball, take shots when they want, and be in a system where they dont have to move a lot w/out the ball. Our system doesnt cater to that type of game. Hence when you have guys trying to get to the league FAST, once other recruiters point this out to them they cool off on the g'town. Recruiters like to be able to show that they have had one and dones, 2-3 year players, and 4 year players that have gone to the league.
As far as bigs, I think g'town basketball has consistently proven that they develop big man projects into NBA ready players so they get great bigs and serviceable bigs. Contrary to what people believe, Monroe is not NBA ready, really not near it. I think it takes him at least two years before he is. Not saying a team wont draft him if he declares next year, but it will be based on potential and not where he currently stands.
I think to get the guards/wings atop our list the offense should be tweeked a bit to cater to the pg's and wings who do see themselves as one and dones and give them more freedom in the offense. Until then, you will see the 5* guards go to the schools that enable them to shine-USC, Memphis, Kansas, Texas, UNC, Duke, etc. However, I am not saying we NEED to change our philosophy, just that it is a new day in recruiting and schools are using our system against us, despite its effectiveness. Plus, looking at numbers, g'town does not have the 20 point scorer, but it is more about balance and these young egotistical players are "me" first.
in re RBHOYA post about Kelly, I agree that in 2 years he would probably be ready to contribute on the Hoya roster, but I guarantee he isnt gonna come into a position where he will be on the bench for two years, not when he is basking in his own hype of being a 5* top 20 player. He is going somewhere where he thinks he will come in starting. I doubt JT3, being the straightshooter he is, will give him the assurances of coming in starting which is what he wants.
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royski
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Post by royski on Sept 15, 2008 17:52:27 GMT -5
To be fair, the only program to actually win a title on the back of a one and done recruit would be they who shall not be named. I'm not sure that recruiting those players is the best way to build up a championship program. I think a top 25 junior will generally be able to outplay a top 5 freshman.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Sept 15, 2008 17:58:49 GMT -5
I dont post on this site that often, but I love to read the posts as they pertain to the current and future status of the program. But from someone that has spoken with several current recruits and has been actively looking at recruiting over the past few years, I think g'town's issue is becoming very clear. The system JT3 runs, albeit successful, it does not cater to the 5* guards/wings that envision themselves as one and done players b/c the notion is that they wont be able to do their thing when they get here. I dont argue with the results it has b/c it is very effective, but when you talk about your Xavier Henry's, Lance Stevenson's, Dominic Cheek's, and Dexter Strickland's you are talking about players who want to have a good showing in their freshman season. In other words, come in and get to dominate the ball, take shots when they want, and be in a system where they dont have to move a lot w/out the ball. Our system doesnt cater to that type of game. Hence when you have guys trying to get to the league FAST, once other recruiters point this out to them they cool off on the g'town. Recruiters like to be able to show that they have had one and dones, 2-3 year players, and 4 year players that have gone to the league. On the one hand, you want talent. On the other hand, you really don't need a whole bunch of "me first" guys who are only looking to get theirs. True one and done types -- the very top of the barrel -- I'm not that worried about because it's rare for them to be on a truly winning team. The issue I think is guys who are team players, aren't really one and done but let someone talk them into thinking they could be. The Tywon Lawson's of the world. There's a prett good chance it would come as a pretty big shock to 17-year old Lawson that he's going to be a college junior (not picking on Lawson -- I'd bet lots of guys are like this). Almost everyone on this board has Greg pegged for two years and some people more. That said, he doesn't have to be NBA ready to be drafted. I don't want me-first players. Not interested in a guy -- especially a guard -- who views stats first. With this system we've gotten Freeman, Wright, Clark, Hollis and others to come here. I guess I'd just say the end state is wins. You design your offense to win games, not to recruit players. Now personally, I think we'll see a significant, but not complete change. After all, to win, your offense needs to match your personnel. But count me as someone who's okay with losing a recruiting battle and winning the game. I don't think III guarantees starting positions, but like Pete Carroll, I hope he guarantees competition. If Thompson wants him at GU and Kelly is confident in his abilities, a guarantee of competition is all he should need.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Sept 15, 2008 19:13:02 GMT -5
Lots of good points above...I'll add as an aside, we basically need to continue to have favor with local recruits and to work the local pipeline. Our success will always be based upon having good DC area players as a strong part of our nucleus and a mix of other guys to fill out the team. I hope that we can use Summers and Sims to build something up the road in Bmore. It would be huge if we could land a nice top-tier Bmore stud every three or four years.
I don't think it will be a disaster if we don't make the Sweet 16 or finish in the top four of the BE this year, but I do think it will be important to be in the Top 25 for much/ most of the year. A good finish will land us among the preseason favorites for '10, which is irrelevant on one hand but somewhat important to recruiting on the other.
Finally, Monroe's performance is very important to the program. While he might not be a huge star out of the box, with hard work and the right attitude he will be very good pretty soon. An elite talent like that could give us a lot of good pub.
Is it time for the season to start yet???
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Post by gtowndynasty on Sept 15, 2008 19:20:25 GMT -5
yeah I totally agree with you SF. One and dones are at least statistically not the answer to having championship type programs, but nowadays you have more players that arent one and done that think they are based on folks around them hyping them up. I am not arguing with the philosophy and system JT3 uses, just saying that those guys in 2010 that end up atop the rankings will probably he hyped into thinking they will be one and done, Id bet they get dissuaded from coming here b/c of what others will tell them about this system and it not enabling them to shine as bright as they would somewhere else. And if the league is the end game, that will be a huge factor in those decisions b/c they will look at the one and dones g'town has produced. Thats all i was saying.
so what i am saying is it matters to one and dones and even though we agree on that, I think more cats believe they are one and dones than they actually are. For instance, in the 09 class there are probably 6-7 one and dones at most, but there are probably more like 30 that see themselves as such. And those other 23-24 are the guys that if they saw themselves as needing to be developed or staying around for a couple years we'd be in prime position to get, but b/c they dont we lose out solely b/c of it.
Still impressed with what we have been able to accomplish thus far with 08 and 09, but i think that 2010 class will be a critical one and we need some top tier talent if we want to stay atop the BE.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Sept 15, 2008 19:34:14 GMT -5
Correct me if I am wrong, but I can't remember GU ever having a "one and done". AI and Page left after two years, very unfortunate for Victor. Mike and Jeff left after three years. GU doesn't have a track record of "one and dones". But GU has a terrific track record of sending guys to the league, well-prepared, they make their teams, and stick in the league for quite a long time. Othella, Don Reid, Jerome, Jaren, lots of cats have lasted longer in the league than many would have thought.
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Post by tpk3 on Sept 15, 2008 22:25:49 GMT -5
I am not for one and dones....and we don't need them to be successful. Hairston/Thornton committing to Duke is a tough hit but we have other options. Alot will be happening in the next few weeks.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Sept 15, 2008 23:23:59 GMT -5
I'd rather have a great TEAM than a "one and done". It's worked before for us, Florida, etc... A Lance Stephenson type would not fit in our system. That said, I would love to see a Michael Beasley on our team.
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Post by gsurus1 on Sept 16, 2008 3:59:47 GMT -5
There is a new interview with Brandon Triche on Scout in which he states that his top/final three are Georgetown, UConn and Syracuse and that he expects to make his decision "sometime very soon".
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Sept 16, 2008 8:01:57 GMT -5
How good is Triche? I assume pretty decent if he has offers from the above schools.
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