blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Sept 16, 2008 8:24:25 GMT -5
losing this recruiting battle would add insult to injury considering the two other programs.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Sept 16, 2008 9:28:50 GMT -5
losing this recruiting battle would add insult to injury considering the two other programs. I kinda get what you are saying, but considering that he's Howard Triche's nephew and I believe he lives in or near Syracuse, the big coup would be Connecticut or us getting him. Another guard who can handle is probably our biggest need for '09 (though it isn't a desperate need or anything). For those who have seen him -- and I know he had an injury that kept him out of action most of the last year -- how does he compare to the '10 guard crop?
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Sept 16, 2008 9:36:30 GMT -5
yeah I totally agree with you SF. One and dones are at least statistically not the answer to having championship type programs, but nowadays you have more players that arent one and done that think they are based on folks around them hyping them up. I am not arguing with the philosophy and system JT3 uses, just saying that those guys in 2010 that end up atop the rankings will probably he hyped into thinking they will be one and done, Id bet they get dissuaded from coming here b/c of what others will tell them about this system and it not enabling them to shine as bright as they would somewhere else. And if the league is the end game, that will be a huge factor in those decisions b/c they will look at the one and dones g'town has produced. Thats all i was saying. so what i am saying is it matters to one and dones and even though we agree on that, I think more cats believe they are one and dones than they actually are. For instance, in the 09 class there are probably 6-7 one and dones at most, but there are probably more like 30 that see themselves as such. And those other 23-24 are the guys that if they saw themselves as needing to be developed or staying around for a couple years we'd be in prime position to get, but b/c they dont we lose out solely b/c of it. Still impressed with what we have been able to accomplish thus far with 08 and 09, but i think that 2010 class will be a critical one and we need some top tier talent if we want to stay atop the BE. 100% agree on the folks who think they are one and done in HS but realize they aren't and stay a few years. On the other hand, we've managed to land our top priorities in '08 and '09 despite that. I really believe the staff targeted Hollis and Dashonte as the players they really wanted and I think that's born out by how early they were on them and got them committed. I don't think either was a case of "get someone early while we can" -- I think Hollis is a perfect fit whose main weakness -- strength -- can be fixed. I think Shon is a guy undervalued because of coaching and possibly somewhat because of assertiveness. While the latter may not ever be changeable, our system fits guys who don't need to take over. And the former won't be an issue -- he'll be utilized here on O and D. In '08, it was pretty clear we wanted Clark and Sims locally, as well as Braswell, and Monroe was obviously the #1 national target. I'm sure in either class there were guys we really wanted but we were out of the running early (I remember hearing III loved Brandon Jennings, but no one got him) and I'm sure there were guys we never heard about, though. As long as we still get very talented players, we'll be fine. We have to miss out on more than a couple of players for it to be a long term issue, though.
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on Sept 16, 2008 9:37:09 GMT -5
Would he be nothing more than Bobby Winston '09 edition?
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Sept 16, 2008 11:31:55 GMT -5
Triche is built like Nat Burton was--strong frame--he's powerful and tough. Good player and smart player as well. More athletic then his uncle--but not as tall--he's someone who would be a nice fit in terms of help in backcourt--but I'm going to say he ends up at Syracuse--not just because of the family connection--but Cuse has ties to his AAU Program and has been on him a long time. It would be a major upset if he goes elsewhere.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Sept 16, 2008 12:32:02 GMT -5
Thanks- now I remember he was the one with the SU ties. I agree that the smart money is on them landing his services. In any event, I'm always glad to see good recruits who want to play in the BE.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Sept 16, 2008 16:49:34 GMT -5
Threads on the Maryland, Nova, and MD Varsity boards are all stating that Vinson is off the board, headed for Loyola Marymount. However I haven't seen a source anywhere. It's possible that somebody made it up and people are just posting it on different boards. Or, maybe it's legit. Something to keep an eye on I guess.
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Post by FairfaxHoya on Sept 16, 2008 16:57:16 GMT -5
Threads on the Maryland, Nova, and MD Varsity boards are all stating that Vinson is off the board, headed for Loyola Marymount. However I haven't seen a source anywhere. It's possible that somebody made it up and people are just posting it on different boards. Or, maybe it's legit. Something to keep an eye on I guess. LMU? That would be a stunner
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Sept 16, 2008 18:26:54 GMT -5
Losing Hairston and Thornton imho had very little to do with losing to Davidson or with the so called style that we are percieved to play by some. I believe Balla hits it straight on with both of them being guided in the Duke direction by school and AAU coaches. Happens all the time.
What concerns me, if indeed it should is have we lost or damaged any influence that we have had with DCA? Did we not show enough respect or genuflect when Nolan Smith was contemplating transfering in the spring. The timing from being Leaders for both to being the 2nd or 3rd choice is just too coincidental. It will be interesting to see what kind of impact that Team Takeover will have on recruiting for both the 2010 kids and beyond.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Sept 16, 2008 19:47:00 GMT -5
Losing Hairston and Thornton imho had very little to do with losing to Davidson or with the so called style that we are percieved to play by some. I believe Balla hits it straight on with both of them being guided in the Duke direction by school and AAU coaches. Happens all the time. What concerns me, if indeed it should is have we lost or damaged any influence that we have had with DCA? Did we not show enough respect or genuflect when Nolan Smith was contemplating transfering in the spring. The timing from being Leaders for both to being the 2nd or 3rd choice is just too coincidental. It will be interesting to see what kind of impact that Team Takeover will have on recruiting for both the 2010 kids and beyond. Your first paragraph is dead on I think. While I stated earlier in this thread that I think the Davidson loss was detrimental to recruiting in that it fed into the negativity that many people have been spreading about our offense and how it supposedly stifles athleticism and natural talent, I don't think that was the major factor in this situation. I think the relationship with DCA was most likely a factor--that, and the fact that as much as we all dislike them and want to bash them, Duke has a lot to offer recruits as well. Sometimes, even if you go really hard after a kid (or two in this case) and give them lots of attention and do everything right, they still may just prefer a different school. That happened with Monroe, and he picked Georgetown. It happened with Hairston, and he picked Duke. It doesn't mean one school is better than the other, just that the players had some different preferences. Re: DCA, the issue has been talked about more elsewhere but I think it's entirely possible that the relationship is "lost". Stuff went down last summer, and since then the recruits we've landed are Monroe, Thompson, and Riley--none of them local, certainly none of them with DCA ties. Some DCA prospects that we had been high on like Wally Judge, McGruder, Gilchrist, Hairston, Thornton have gone elsewhere since, and others who we once seemed pretty keen on like Atkins or even Traynham (who IIRC we scouted a long time back) seem to be pretty off the radar. My understanding is that with some kids Curtis is more in the driver's seat than with others, meaning it's not a total lock that we'll NEVER get a DCA kid again. It's just that Curtis is going to try to steer kids away from the hilltop, and with some kids (like Wally Judge) he has almost total control. With other kids, their families are really calling the shots and if the family thinks Georgetown is the best situation they will go that way, regardless of whether or not they have Curtis' blessing. And I think that was the case with Hairston-- we wanted him, the folks at DCA were pushing him elsewhere, and he and his family were trying to sort it all out. In the end he went another direction. You can argue that all else being about equal, the influence of DCA was sort of the tipping point, but again it's totally possible that he simply liked Duke better--tough for us to comprehend I know, but possible. It will be interesting to see where our recruiting goes from here. The last DCA kid we got was Freeman in the fall of 2005, last DC area player we got was Wright in the fall of 2006 (excludes Braswell). As of right now it's looking like 2009 will finish without us landing anyone from the area, and the top 2 DC area guys we'd been looking at in 2010 are now off the board. All of a sudden we're talking about Brandon Triches and Ryan Kellys and Jason Morrises and Nate Lubicks more than anyone from DC. Is this Team Takeover replacing Triple Threat or the DC Blue Devils or what? Personally I'm hoping that we can continue to get the top players from Bmore and also keep a strong relationship with Boo (which hasn't yieled much lately and hopefully is not damaged by the Macklin ordeal). If we can keep those alliances strong, keep relationships strong with high schools around the area like DeMatha, NCA and MC, we should still be able to find 3-4 Georgetown caliber players every year from MD/DC/VA that are not influenced by Malone. Supplement that with top players from other parts of the country every now and again as we have done with Monroe/Thompson/Riley and we shouldn't miss a beat on the trail. It's easier said than done but I think it's completely possible for our staff to manage.
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Sept 16, 2008 19:57:58 GMT -5
Losing Hairston and Thornton imho had very little to do with losing to Davidson or with the so called style that we are percieved to play by some. I believe Balla hits it straight on with both of them being guided in the Duke direction by school and AAU coaches. Happens all the time. What concerns me, if indeed it should is have we lost or damaged any influence that we have had with DCA? Did we not show enough respect or genuflect when Nolan Smith was contemplating transfering in the spring. The timing from being Leaders for both to being the 2nd or 3rd choice is just too coincidental. It will be interesting to see what kind of impact that Team Takeover will have on recruiting for both the 2010 kids and beyond. Your first paragraph is dead on I think. While I stated earlier in this thread that I think the Davidson loss was detrimental to recruiting in that it fed into the negativity that many people have been spreading about our offense and how it supposedly stifles athleticism and natural talent, I don't think that was the major factor in this situation. I think the relationship with DCA was most likely a factor--that, and the fact that as much as we all dislike them and want to bash them, Duke has a lot to offer recruits as well. Sometimes, even if you go really hard after a kid (or two in this case) and give them lots of attention and do everything right, they still may just prefer a different school. That happened with Monroe, and he picked Georgetown. It happened with Hairston, and he picked Duke. It doesn't mean one school is better than the other, just that the players had some different preferences. Re: DCA, the issue has been talked about more elsewhere but I think it's entirely possible that the relationship is "lost". Stuff went down last summer, and since then the recruits we've landed are Monroe, Thompson, and Riley--none of them local, certainly none of them with DCA ties. Some DCA prospects that we had been high on like Wally Judge, McGruder, Gilchrist, Hairston, Thornton have gone elsewhere since, and others who we once seemed pretty keen on like Atkins or even Traynham (who IIRC we scouted a long time back) seem to be pretty off the radar. My understanding is that with some kids Curtis is more in the driver's seat than with others, meaning it's not a total lock that we'll NEVER get a DCA kid again. It's just that Curtis is going to try to steer kids away from the hilltop, and with some kids (like Wally Judge) he has almost total control. With other kids, their families are really calling the shots and if the family thinks Georgetown is the best situation they will go that way, regardless of whether or not they have Curtis' blessing. And I think that was the case with Hairston-- we wanted him, the folks at DCA were pushing him elsewhere, and he and his family were trying to sort it all out. In the end he went another direction. You can argue that all else being about equal, the influence of DCA was sort of the tipping point, but again it's totally possible that he simply liked Duke better--tough for us to comprehend I know, but possible. It will be interesting to see where our recruiting goes from here. The last DCA kid we got was Freeman in the fall of 2005, last DC area player we got was Wright in the fall of 2006 (excludes Braswell). As of right now it's looking like 2009 will finish without us landing anyone from the area, and the top 2 DC area guys we'd been looking at in 2010 are now off the board. All of a sudden we're talking about Brandon Triches and Ryan Kellys and Jason Morrises and Nate Lubicks more than anyone from DC. Is this Team Takeover replacing Triple Threat or the DC Blue Devils or what? Personally I'm hoping that we can continue to get the top players from Bmore and also keep a strong relationship with Boo (which hasn't yieled much lately and hopefully is not damaged by the Macklin ordeal). If we can keep those alliances strong, keep relationships strong with high schools around the area like DeMatha, NCA and MC, we should still be able to find 3-4 Georgetown caliber players every year from MD/DC/VA that are not influenced by Malone. Supplement that with top players from other parts of the country every now and again as we have done with Monroe/Thompson/Riley and we shouldn't miss a beat on the trail. It's easier said than done but I think it's completely possible for our staff to manage. I wouldn't mind it if we stuck to the WCAC for local recruits (you forgot to mention Clark of course). A lot of the other schools in the area produce kids who might not be ready for the off-court responsibilities they will have at Georgetown.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Sept 16, 2008 20:00:33 GMT -5
Ummm...Jason Clark? And Sims isn't from too far off.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Sept 16, 2008 20:35:15 GMT -5
RB.. or anyone...how much do we miss Kevin Broadus in DC recruiting? And wasn't David Cox, ex-DC Assault family member, supposed to handle that relationship?
Can you share, via e-message if necessary, what exactly it was that "went down" last summer?
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jgalt
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Post by jgalt on Sept 16, 2008 20:50:42 GMT -5
I'd to know what happened as well, if possible
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MCIGuy
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Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Sept 16, 2008 20:52:44 GMT -5
What concerns me, if indeed it should is have we lost or damaged any influence that we have had with DCA? Did we not show enough respect or genuflect when Nolan Smith was contemplating transfering in the spring. The timing from being Leaders for both to being the 2nd or 3rd choice is just too coincidental. This break down in the relationship happened before Nolan's situation. At least based upon what I've read and have been told.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Sept 16, 2008 21:36:39 GMT -5
Ummm...Jason Clark? And Sims isn't from too far off. Yes, sorry I forgot Clark. He committed so long ago, haha. And really he and Wright picked Georgetown within about a month or so of each other so it's not a huge difference maker in what I was saying as far as time frame goes. But the main point I was making involves keeping DC and Bmore as distinct regions, which I think makes more sense just because they're different spheres of influence, in regard to both college coaches and AAU coaches, despite being only an hour apart. And yes I'm overanalyzing, but hey, that's hoyatalk . As far as what happened with DCA, it's always been explained to me in a sort of hush-hush manner--I'm not 100% sure why but I don't wanna screw anything up for anybody by being a big mouth. Sending you a PM though, Saxa & jgalt. It's really nothing too stunning. And re: Broadus, I do think he is missed. There were some recruits that considered Georgetown simply because of him. The guy was really everything you could ask for in a recruiter, he's ultra charismatic and has the ability to really relate to young people, IMHO. To date though, you really can't complain about the results, we've landed some great players since he left. Burke was clutch in the Monroe recruitment. Not sure what to make of Cox and Hunter yet, maybe balla or others could tell you but I don't really know enough. However, I can pretty confidently say that Curtis' issues with the program trump Cox's ties to DCA, so I don't think he helps much on that front.
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royski
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Post by royski on Sept 16, 2008 23:11:29 GMT -5
I'd also be interested in a PM on that.
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hoyaboy1
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Post by hoyaboy1 on Sept 16, 2008 23:31:13 GMT -5
The rumor I've heard is that it has to do with the agent selection of our recent draftees. I don't see a need to keep it in PMs.
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chep3
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Post by chep3 on Sept 16, 2008 23:43:22 GMT -5
I know this sounds utterly naive, but when you hear things like that, it really makes you think hard about whether to invest so much time following a sport like this. Don't get me wrong, I love our team, but seeing the very seamy underbelly of college basketball kind of makes my stomach turn. At least with the pros, the business stuff is transparent. This backroom dealing and pimping of HS kids just does not sit right with me. But I guess ignorance is bliss...
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tarkman
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Post by tarkman on Sept 17, 2008 4:39:23 GMT -5
No surprise here .. This morning's Syracuse newspaper reports Brandon Triche committed to Orange over the past weekend.
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