1803
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 381
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Post by 1803 on Mar 23, 2008 17:25:46 GMT -5
This has been a difficult run between the Hoyas and the refs the last few weeks. It is hard to win when every touch foul gets called on you, but not on the other team. It is one thing to call a foul underneath when a guy gets hammered, and another go call every little ticky tack thing that happens away from the ball.
The Hoyas opponents have been making a killing from the foul line the last few weeks, finding themselves at the line on every foul ten minutes into each half, not to mention Roy has hardly been in the game. Pitt shot 44 foul shots to our 9 in the Big East Final. In our first game against Villanova, they were 15-18 from the line in the first half, while we did not even attempt a foul shot. The numbers are one thing, but the bias is another. In the last minute against Pitt we had it close, Ewing came down the lane, a guy reached in, knocked his harm and the ball flew out of his hand. No whistle, of course.
Today I think anyone that watched knows that officiating was a major handicap for us. Hibbert gets pushed by his man in the post every time down the floor, and if he dares push back he gets a foul called. The fourth foul on him was a weak call, with him pushing back with his elbow, and it pretty much ended his day.
Just a tough way to go down when don't really get to go after it with all you have because they guys with the whistles kept Roy out of the game and the Wildcats on the line. For a team that was supposedly so lucky with the refs this season (By the way, the ref did not win the game for us against Villanova, if anything the game was going into OT, but I guess it is easy for commentators who don't watch the game to say that.)
Very proud of this team, and am already looking forward to next year.
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tlphoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 431
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Post by tlphoya on Mar 23, 2008 17:58:24 GMT -5
I agree with you. If we are even allowed to play our game for 10 minutes it isn't even close. So sad.
Very proud of the guys!!
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Mar 23, 2008 17:59:59 GMT -5
we were reffed right off the floor in the second half...and I'm not one to complain about officiating. It's the one thing I was worried about when I realized we were probably going to be forced to play this team 70 miles from their campus
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Post by RockawayHoya on Mar 23, 2008 18:10:56 GMT -5
My problem is not really with fouls we commit in the act of shooting. But we are whistled for so many BS calls out on the perimeter and bogus offensive fouls (read: Roy), so that the other team always finds itself in the bonus or double-bonus so much earlier than we are. I just find it really hard to believe that so many other upper echelon teams that rely more on intense pressure and chaos to force turnovers are able to stay out of foul trouble and we as a position-based defense can't do the same.
I remember a few months back (mid Jan?), one poster on this board cited an interesting stat that showed that we were one of only two Top 25 teams to have a negative foul differential up to that point for the year. I'd like to see how those stats ended up for the year.
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lurkerhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,182
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Post by lurkerhoya on Mar 23, 2008 18:41:59 GMT -5
Worst Officiated game ever, and everyone who wants to pretend that we blew a 17-pt. lead, go ahead and take the high road. It leads nowhere.
A quick review of the play-by-play shows me 9 offensive fouls, away from the ball. I'm sure there were at least 1 or 2 more that I missed in my haste. For those who don't realize it, those are also 9 TOs.
So, 60% FG, 55% 3pt FG, 11 TOs.
You're seriously telling me we don't win that game 11 out of 10 times?
Anyone who wants to say Roy didn't play up to snuff: 2 BS offensive fouls within the first 1:30 of each half.
You know what 60% tells me: we weren't being stagnant and jacking up threes. WE WEREN'T EVEN GETTING SHOTS OFF BECAUSE OF RIDICULOUS AWAY FROM THE BALL OFFENSIVE FOULS!
You have to love refs who decide that a class act for four years doesn't deserve to play more than 16 minutes in his final game. As for more choke job talk, it's still on officiating. We have an offense and a game plan. When you're offense is now told, don't set screens, don't post up, don't do anything except stay as far away from the defense as you can and jack threes because that's all we're going to let you do, it changes the game. That's what the refs basically told us they would allow. Roy's 4th foul, I watched that scrub Sander for the 2 possessions before. I didn't even watch the ball. I watched him hang on Roy on defense and pull every Bill Laimbeer trick in the book on offense. Roy comes down, beats him to the block and the kid puts his face on his elbow. WHISTLE. Don't get me started on Roy's 2nd foul on what was a horrible and uncatchable entry pass out of bounds.
I'd love to point out a "turning point" but there wasn't one. It was just a series of possessions that normally would have been our run-stoppers ending in whistles with all 30-40 fans around me going Whaaat? And suddenly guys are walking down the court. That's not a choke job. That's an official hatchet job. That's 3 guys with an agenda deciding a game of 10 players.
And frankly Jon and Roy deserved better. True class acts since they stepped on the hilltop, these were 2 guys who gave their all for 4 years and did it right. Apparently CBS and NCAA think that the 10 seed moving on is the better story. It's good to know that the ratings and buzz of that are more important. And that's too bad because you would think a group of adults would have more integrity than the kids they get to boss around.
I apologize for the rant, but I think it's horrendous that kids who put their school and team first, kids who make you proud to be associated with a school, kids who embody everything that is right with being a student-athlete, are denied everything they worked for over the course of 4 years because of 40 minutes of officiating.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Mar 23, 2008 18:47:16 GMT -5
Thank you, Lurker. I was wondering about an official tally of offensive fouls whistled against us. Don't forget that those 9 fouls also got them into the bonus/double bonus earlier, which turned non-shooting fouls into FTs for them as well.
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lurkerhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,182
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Post by lurkerhoya on Mar 23, 2008 18:52:14 GMT -5
The long and short of it is the refs changed the game.
I spoke to someone afterwards who said well they finally swallowed their whistles at the end.
Not quite. At that point we couldn't afford the TOs and has basically abandoned any semblance of the game plan that worked.
Sad.
Big thanks to Roy and Jon. I'll be gunning for you in moot court, Wallace!
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Mar 23, 2008 18:52:50 GMT -5
I agree....we were reffed right off the floor in this game..sad
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HoyaFanNY
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Never throw to the venus on a spider 3 Y banana!
Posts: 4,995
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Mar 23, 2008 19:04:17 GMT -5
please stop blaming the refs. it's pathetic. we self destructed in the 2nd half, just like against memphis and louisville. you sound like a bunch of syracuse fans.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Mar 23, 2008 19:06:24 GMT -5
don't call me or say I sound like a cuse fan,
I deserve far more respect than that
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royski
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,297
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Post by royski on Mar 23, 2008 19:09:57 GMT -5
Agreed. The refs were bad, but they didn't throw the ball away on possession after possession. And I'm not one who won't criticize refs either, the 1st half last year against Carolina, I legitimately thought the game was a fix. This was nowhere near that level.
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lurkerhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,182
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Post by lurkerhoya on Mar 23, 2008 19:12:46 GMT -5
It will be a cold day in hell before I believe we played anything other than 8 on 5.
You don't self destruct shooting 60% and having essentially 10 TOs. Throwing the ball away? Please.
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NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,927
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 23, 2008 19:17:20 GMT -5
Maybe playing in the BE is just biting us in the butt. What we can get away with in the BE, was not acceptable today. They allowed the game to be called much less physical then we are used to and we saw the result. Tough to lose when you shoot 63% from the field.
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Post by vamosalaplaya on Mar 23, 2008 19:18:27 GMT -5
With better free throw shooting, some big stops, and/or a key three pointer in the 7 minute period, the Hoyas win this game.
But the refs were awful. Hibbert should have gone pro last year. Same thing happened last year in the post-season - Hibbert doesn't get to play.
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town05
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 201
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Post by town05 on Mar 23, 2008 19:21:59 GMT -5
please stop blaming the refs. it's pathetic. we self destructed in the 2nd half, just like against memphis and louisville. you sound like a bunch of syracuse fans. And you sound like a broken record, at least explain yourself. How can you deny ANYTHING that has been said in this thread?
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royski
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,297
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Post by royski on Mar 23, 2008 19:27:47 GMT -5
please stop blaming the refs. it's pathetic. we self destructed in the 2nd half, just like against memphis and louisville. you sound like a bunch of syracuse fans. And you sound like a broken record, at least explain yourself. How can you deny ANYTHING that has been said in this thread? Blaming the refs for a loss is low class, and the epitome of being a sore loser by saying its not OUR fault we lost since the game was never fair. Its sort of pathetic and incredibly disrespectful to Davidson and Stephen Curry, who played a fantastic game today. We lost because we got lazy up 17, not because of a hatchet job. Oh, and because Curry made EVERY big shot.
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HoyaFanNY
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Never throw to the venus on a spider 3 Y banana!
Posts: 4,995
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Mar 23, 2008 19:29:51 GMT -5
explain myself? i think i did. we lost the game. the refs didn't take anything from us. you could tell the first 2 minutes of the game it was going to be called real tight, so as a player you adjust. we didn't. we kept bailing them out with fouls on defense and costing ourselves shots by getting offensive fouls. davidson took care of the ball and adjusted to the way the game was being called and we didn't. it's that simple
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Mar 23, 2008 19:33:50 GMT -5
Winners never talk about officiating.
Losers do.
there is probably a reason for that.
we lost. its over.
if you put the game in the hands of the officials, you have no business winning in the first place.
we lost today.
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sweetness
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 860
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Post by sweetness on Mar 23, 2008 19:35:56 GMT -5
the officiating was a joke today, and makes me bitter about being a college hoops fan in the first place
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lurkerhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,182
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Post by lurkerhoya on Mar 23, 2008 19:38:31 GMT -5
For what it's worth our 63% was the second-highest total in a loss in tournament history.
Make of that what you will.
EDIT: On a phone call it was just summed up perfectly, "They let the refs take an All-American out of the game". If you disagree with that, well, you watched a different game.
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