GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 23, 2008 19:47:09 GMT -5
Winners never talk about officiating. Losers do. there is probably a reason for that. we lost. its over. if you put the game in the hands of the officials, you have no business winning in the first place. we lost today. Not true. When Antonio Pena fouled out both our centers in 29 minutes against 'Nova I also complained. You know why? Because it is nonsense. We won by 19 that game and it still wasn't fair. The officials are not there to make the game "close." They are not there to "even things out." They are there to officiate fairly and allow the players to decide the game. So I'll be low class. If Thomas Sander is so good that Roy can't get POST POSITION- not step into him, not go at him on drive, just get position, then he should be in the NBA. My guess is he won't be. It is nonsense that we had 9 offensive fouls and 7 away from the ball. Davidson has heart. Big f'in' deal. What about Jon's heart or Roy's heart? Because we've won titles and been to the Final Four, that doesn't count? Garbage. We played great D, incredible offense, and even out-rebounded them. The game was decided on 20 turnovers. Half of which were 100% decided by the officials. Steals were a whopping 5-2. Nonsense. I don't blame Davidson. They just took advantage of what they were given. But make no mistake, they were given it.
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Post by ][-][ 0 `/ /-\ 5 on Mar 23, 2008 19:50:39 GMT -5
One missed call that really, really Editeded me off though. Down two with about six minutes to play, Wright put up a three and Curry very clearly slapped him on the wrist on the release. No call. It would have been Curry's fifth. The shot misses, of course, and Curry nails a three on the other end. G'town down five and never gets back in it. That one really Editeded me off too. The shot was clearly altered and even the heads of the Stephen Curry fan club(the commetators) pointed it out
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 23, 2008 20:53:13 GMT -5
Yes, Packer said there should have been a foul called on that one...
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Post by HoyaOnBothSides on Mar 23, 2008 20:53:34 GMT -5
Worst Officiated game ever, and everyone who wants to pretend that we blew a 17-pt. lead, go ahead and take the high road. It leads nowhere. A quick review of the play-by-play shows me 9 offensive fouls, away from the ball. I'm sure there were at least 1 or 2 more that I missed in my haste. For those who don't realize it, those are also 9 TOs. So, 60% FG, 55% 3pt FG, 11 TOs. Well, 6 of those 9 were before 11:37 remaining in the 2nd half, at which point we lead 50-39. Was anyone complaining then? Blaming the refs is ridiculous - in the long run, it all evens out. I still feel sick from the loss but not becaue I think this game was "stolen." It was given away.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Mar 23, 2008 20:54:45 GMT -5
Packer mentioned it right when it happened. He said that Curry clearly got chris on the arm...the flight of the ball altered and everything...it's rough because when baby doc hit Curry, I mean barely touched him on the follow through, the whistle blew just like that.
Our boys never had a chance with these refs, and it's sad. It's apparent the officials were going to do whatever they could to keep davidson close. I even said that in the first half when we had a sizeable lead. and when davidson got close, curry was good enough to put them over the top, especially seeing as we couldn't touch him or he'd be at the line.
and especially because he should've been out of the game on that foul on chris's three-pointer
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Mar 23, 2008 20:57:17 GMT -5
Great teams overcome bad officiating. Unfortunately, the Hoyas were a flawed team this year, and just could not get it done.
I really don't know what it is with the refs and Roy. I cannot believe that there is any overt bias against Roy or Georgetown, so I don't understand why he got so abused. by refs. I have never in my life seen a player get consistently pushed out of the box and beaten up, but have calls go against him. There are always one or two silly fouls by Roy, but man he just got no respect.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 23, 2008 20:58:26 GMT -5
Worst Officiated game ever, and everyone who wants to pretend that we blew a 17-pt. lead, go ahead and take the high road. It leads nowhere. A quick review of the play-by-play shows me 9 offensive fouls, away from the ball. I'm sure there were at least 1 or 2 more that I missed in my haste. For those who don't realize it, those are also 9 TOs. So, 60% FG, 55% 3pt FG, 11 TOs. Well, 6 of those 9 were before 11:37 remaining in the 2nd half, at which point we lead 50-39. Was anyone complaining then? Blaming the refs is ridiculous - in the long run, it all evens out. I still feel sick from the loss but not becaue I think this game was "stolen." It was given away. In the long run, we're all dead. In 40 minutes, games get stolen. And FYI, when they tried to let Davidson get within ten at the half by giving them the last possession, I was complaining. I was just happier we were ahead even though our All-American was removed from the game.
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Post by mikeylikesit on Mar 23, 2008 21:42:26 GMT -5
i think people who make blanket statements like "great teams overcome bad officiating", "the officials don't lose the game" and "it's always the losers who complain about the officiating" are missing the point entirely.
sure, i believe that this team is flawed. yes, i don't truly believe that we had what it took to win a national championship. we had trouble putting people away all year because of turnovers, rebounding, free throws, etc. we had the opportunity to shut the door on davidson and we failed to do so.
but that does not change the fact that this was so obviously a terribly officiated game, especially for roy. the refs called the game in a way that essentially neutralized every offensive threat of a low-post center. plain and simple, that kills us. i think most people here are smart enough to recognize bad officiating when we see it, whether it is against georgetown or not. of course, you won't see threads devoted to bad officiating when we win because we're busy extolling our own players.
anyway, the fact that georgetown, if they were a better team, could have overcame the officiating is irrelevant. the fact is they didn't have enough, and in a tight game like this, the officiating essentially decided the outcome.
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KHoyaNYC
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Mar 23, 2008 21:45:33 GMT -5
Well, 6 of those 9 were before 11:37 remaining in the 2nd half, at which point we lead 50-39. Was anyone complaining then? Blaming the refs is ridiculous - in the long run, it all evens out. I still feel sick from the loss but not becaue I think this game was "stolen." It was given away. In the long run, we're all dead. In 40 minutes, games get stolen. And FYI, when they tried to let Davidson get within ten at the half by giving them the last possession, I was complaining. I was just happier we were ahead even though our All-American was removed from the game. Enough. Blaming the refs is a cop out. We've gotten more than our fair share of the calls this season and today for once we were on the short side but that in no way cost us the game. Last I checked, we were able to blow teams off the floor when Hibbert doesn't even score. Why should today be any different? You're up 16 in the second half, you finish them off. Period. Nothing was stolen here. We are sounding like WVU and Villanova fans and that's really unacceptable.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 23, 2008 21:52:25 GMT -5
Moved into this thread: The officiating crew today was simply not going let Roy Hibbert play basketball. Every time he was in the game, he was whistled for ridiculous touch fouls in an almost scripted pattern. He was not allowed to post-up, to play defense or to even have a chance to play.
This was such blatant and obvious thing that it raise some very serious questions-
1) What incentive is there for any player with the talent of a Roy Hibbert to ever return for a second, third or fourth year of basketball when in the single elimination playoffs you take the chance of simply not being not allowed to play? This will incent every top player to go right to the NBA as soon as possible, hastening the end to competitive NCAA basketball.
2) Second, by simply calling fouls almost immediately on Hibbert to eliminate the All-American from play, the whole game comes under question as to whether gamblers or the NCAA itself, are exercising a real nefarious influence on the games. This was too obvious and not remotely un-subtle in how it was carried out. Anyone watching this game would have wonder if it was being played on the up and up. College basketball almost went under from point shaving scandals in the past and if these games are being rigged, the great golden goose for everyone will come to an end. It is not even the ridiculous disparity in free throws,but the timing and just plain explicit effort by the officiating crew to keep Hibbert off the court.
3) This type of travesty takes all the pride and satisfaction out of the game for the winner and makes the loser become completely cynical about the workings of the game and the world. In a larger moral context, can Davidson truly believe that they were the better team and can Georgetown's players ever trust in the fairness of anything again? This was not simply a matter of one, ten or a dozen bad calls. It was three men changing the game and working explicitly for one side over another. A thumb on the scale is one thing, a fifty pound sack flower something else.
I admire the class of JTII and the players and all their class comments. I am not so classy and may not be that interested in the NCAA next year,since my faith that this is a legitimate and fair competition is being greatly tested.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 23, 2008 22:09:09 GMT -5
In the long run, we're all dead. In 40 minutes, games get stolen. And FYI, when they tried to let Davidson get within ten at the half by giving them the last possession, I was complaining. I was just happier we were ahead even though our All-American was removed from the game. Enough. Blaming the refs is a cop out. We've gotten more than our fair share of the calls this season and today for once we were on the short side but that in no way cost us the game. Last I checked, we were able to blow teams off the floor when Hibbert doesn't even score. Why should today be any different? You're up 16 in the second half, you finish them off. Period. Nothing was stolen here. We are sounding like WVU and Villanova fans and that's really unacceptable. Last I checked WVU and Villanova shot more FTs than us and are smaller teams. Last I checked, overcoming Hibbert getting fouled out versus 'Nova is not the same as competent officiating. It's the "Marlins won a World Series so the economics of baseball is fair" argument where an unbalanced exception establishes a rule. Last I checked, a blanket statement like "blaming the refs is a cop out" is ironically, a cop out. This isn't a matter of class. This is what happened today. They didn't only gain an advantage with fouls, they actually were given possession of the ball 9 times AND were given an advantage by dismissing our most imposing player. That is unacceptable.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Mar 23, 2008 22:16:53 GMT -5
i guess us having 20 turnovers and Davidson only having 4 turnovers didn't hurt us or cost us the game, but the refs did.
hmmmm...i see.
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Post by mikeylikesit on Mar 23, 2008 22:18:38 GMT -5
i agree with gigafan. it is possible to objectively assess the officiating and come to the conclusion that the quality of the calls essentially decided the outcome of a very tight game without classifying it as a "cop out". like i said, if we were better, we could have overcome the officiating problems, but that doesn't change the fact that bad officiating is still bad officiating. there's no reason why we shouldn't be able to point this out as a huge deciding factor in the game.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 23, 2008 22:22:09 GMT -5
i guess us having 20 turnovers and Davidson only having 4 turnovers didn't hurt us or cost us the game, but the refs did. hmmmm...i see. 9 (almost half by my bad math) were offensive fouls. But we probably called those on ourselves. Damn it Davidson, call more offensive fouls on yourself! You never push off on drives or fight for position, I know but help us out Wildcats.
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KHoyaNYC
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Mar 23, 2008 22:25:48 GMT -5
Enough. Blaming the refs is a cop out. We've gotten more than our fair share of the calls this season and today for once we were on the short side but that in no way cost us the game. Last I checked, we were able to blow teams off the floor when Hibbert doesn't even score. Why should today be any different? You're up 16 in the second half, you finish them off. Period. Nothing was stolen here. We are sounding like WVU and Villanova fans and that's really unacceptable. Last I checked WVU and Villanova shot more FTs than us and are smaller teams. Last I checked, overcoming Hibbert getting fouled out versus 'Nova is not the same as competent officiating. It's the "Marlins won a World Series so the economics of baseball is fair" argument where an unbalanced exception establishes a rule. Last I checked, a blanket statement like "blaming the refs is a cop out" is ironically, a cop out. This isn't a matter of class. This is what happened today. They didn't only gain an advantage with fouls, they actually were given possession of the ball 9 times AND were given an advantage by dismissing our most imposing player. That is unacceptable. It is a cop out. I don't know how calling it a "blanket statement" refutes that but the refs did not "steal" this game. What hapened today is Georgetown blew a 17 point second half lead against a mid-major team. What happened today is the Hoyas got sloppy with the ball and lost their poise. What happened today is they couldn't shut down the other team's best player like they did in the first half. What happened today is Hibbert got two cheapies but also committed two silly fouls, taking himself out of the game as much as the refs. What happened is we took some bad shots in the second half and Davidson capitalized.
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Post by happyhoya1979 on Mar 23, 2008 22:30:44 GMT -5
We shot 63% the second highest for a losing team in the historyof the tournament. A lot of those turnovers were caused because Davidson knew they could foul with impunity and that they had three extra men. When you know you have the cavalry in range to always bail you out, it is easy to act more heroically. I saw a tackle of Macklin that should have been an intentional, and Curry smashed Chirs Wirght's arm and should have been on the bench with six minutes to go.
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KHoyaNYC
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Mar 23, 2008 22:32:20 GMT -5
i guess us having 20 turnovers and Davidson only having 4 turnovers didn't hurt us or cost us the game, but the refs did. hmmmm...i see. 9 (almost half by my bad math) were offensive fouls. But we probably called those on ourselves. Damn it Davidson, call more offensive fouls on yourself! You never push off on drives or fight for position, I know but help us out Wildcats. C'mon Giga, at least half of those 9 (maybe more I can't recall) came while the Hoyas were cruising with a double digit lead. And with Hibbert out in the first half we not only did just fine, we went on a nice run to build a lead. We got beat, nothing was taken away from us. We cannot, absolutely cannot, say "but for the refs we win this game." It's not an objective view.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Mar 23, 2008 22:38:58 GMT -5
Agreed. It was such a mismatch at the end of the first half, that I wasnt even paying that much attention early in the second. We took our foot off the gas with a beaten team. We got sloppy with the ball and just took the lead for granted. It's as if people have forgotten that this was our m.o. all year long. Heck, towards the middle of the second half against UMBC on Friday, we went through the same stretch. We overcame this all year long with some clutch play at the end of games, some fortunate calls and lets face it, some bad plays by other teams. Arguably, the best games we played all season were against Nova and WVU in the BET when those teams were just physically spent, and against a ND team that we just matched up really well against. We were exposed today by a team that didnt quit, didnt miss free throws and was clutch at the end of the game.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Mar 23, 2008 22:50:58 GMT -5
9 (almost half by my bad math) were offensive fouls. But we probably called those on ourselves. Damn it Davidson, call more offensive fouls on yourself! You never push off on drives or fight for position, I know but help us out Wildcats. C'mon Giga, at least half of those 9 (maybe more I can't recall) came while the Hoyas were cruising with a double digit lead. And with Hibbert out in the first half we not only did just fine, we went on a nice run to build a lead. We got beat, nothing was taken away from us. We cannot, absolutely cannot, say "but for the refs we win this game." It's not an objective view. They're good calls because we were ahead? Alright, sure. I guess Davidson had the right strategy then. Go ahead with three minutes to go so they can't tilt the game against you. We built a lead DESPITE Roy's absence. Good for our guys. And you know what, Roy's fouled out twice this year (here and 'Nova). He plays 27mpg (30+mpg when it matters). And when he's fouled out, he's fouled out in 14 and 16 minutes against teams with nobody taller than 6'8. You find that to be plausible? Really? You really think he wouldn't foul out late in a hard fought game with 22 minutes logged or 24 if he were prone to such a thing? Instead he just racks up fouls quickly, sits, comes back in and racks up another couple completely on his own accord? Come on. I know the officials are so good we cannot detract from them without being "sour grapes" but our kids worked hard on defense and offense and got BS fouls that counted as turnovers in the box score that will be used as the excuse for us losing. Great, give us half those. No really, give us 4 more possessions and Davidson 4 fewer. Let's see who's playing next week.
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KHoyaNYC
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Mar 23, 2008 23:00:17 GMT -5
It's not "sour grapes" to criticize the refs. But it is sour grapes to say the refs stole this game from Georgetown. Life isn't fair. The refs won't always call a game evenly. Georgetown has been in that position before against far greater opponents and won. We lost. Not only did we lose, but we lost with a 17 point second half lead against a mid-major. I don't care how many fouls are called, in that position with our level of talent you put a team like Davidson away. Period.
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