NFL Playoff Thread

[TrueHoyaBlue]

As a Pats fan, I think the Chargers could have just given the ball to LT every play in the second half, and they probably would have put up about 40 points. He never seemed to have a problem with the ball in his hands, and it was grinding down the Pats D.

Glad they didn't.

[HealyHoya]

God, I hope the Colts win.

[hifigator]

healyhoya said:

God, I hope the Colts win.

I have to disagree with you here. I have to root for anyone but the Colts. That is why I was hesitant to pull for the Pats yesterday, since it gives Indy the home-field. But I still like the Pats chances even in the RCA dome.

Those were two great games yesterday. You can't ask for more tense and competitive games, and even though there were a few more turnovers and errant throws than I would like, for the most part I thought both games came down to one team making the plays slightly more than one team NOT making plays. Sure, if Troy Brown doesn't rip that intercepted pass away ... or if Macree doesn't try to catch it but rather just knocks it down since it was fourth down and he was 15 yards downfield ... ... but all in all, I still focus on the plays that were made. Tom Brady was Tom Brady when the chips were on the line. He missed a couple of open receivers earlier, but when it was put up or go home, then he put his team in position and then executed. The 2 point throw was all Brady. He had to scramble a bit and then drew the defenders up as if he was going to run and then made a difficult throw back to the right moving to his left.

As for the Bears-Seahawks game, it was certainly another game which could have gone either way, but I just had a feeling that the Bears would pull it out; I don't know why. And I admit when the Hawks took the lead and then forced the Bears to turn the ball over inside the 10, I began to wonder. But Holmgren dedided to be greedy and Seattle gave it right back.

Hats off to 2 kickers who converted in pressure packed situation and hats off to the numerous Gators who were on the winning teams yesterday (7, if I didn't leave anyon out).

[DanMcQ]

hifigator said:

The 2 point throw was all Brady. He had to scramble a bit and then drew the defenders up as if he was going to run and then made a difficult throw back to the right moving to his left.

Um, the 2 point conversion was a nice fake by Brady, but it was a direct snap to Kevin Faulk.

[RDF]

danmcq said:

Hello - it's football - you're supposed to hit the receivers if you are a CB or DB. You're not supposed to head butt them, especially right in front of the official.

Any Pop Warner player knows if he muffs a punt catch he should just fall on it, not try and pick it up to run. At the time of the game when McCree intercepted the pass, the right play was to fall on it since he was in the middle of a bunch of players AND the game would have been essentially over. But no. "I never did," McCree said when asked if he considered knocking the ball down. "I was trying to make a play, and any time I get the ball I'm going to try and score." Players make plays, but coaching puts them in position to make the right plays.

Don't allow your offensive coordinator to say "I've got a play for 4th and 11" when you have a makeable kick for your Pro Bowl kicker from the 30. Don't let your offensive coordinator put your best weapon (Tomlinson) in the witness protection program for most of the second half. What - a 58 yard screen play isn't good enough to ever try it again?

A coach who can coach winning playoff football can take a team with visibly less talent across the board and get them focused enough to win against a team that is already looking ahead to the Super Bowl. A coach who can't coach winning playoff football takes a team with the best record in football and arguably the best talent in football and loses.

Rivers did play passably well, but he made plays you expect an inexperienced QB to make - like wasting a timeout immediately AFTER an injury timeout. The Charger game plan in the second half put too much weight on his shoulders and somehow strayed away from what would have won them the game: keeping the ball in LTs hands. I guess that's players making plays - no coaching involvement there.

Speaking of that, Mr. Lights Out himself, the king of trash talkers (who predicted at halftime of the Pats-Jets game that the Chargers would be playing the Jets) was nowhere to be found yesterday - with only 2 tackles. Nobody singles out Matt Light, but there was a player making big plays all afternoon.

You're right - players make plays - and the Patriots made more of them when it counted than the Chargers did. That's why they are playing next week.

As Bill Parcells says, you are what you are. Belichick and Brady are 12-1 in postseason games. Hard to argue with that.

I have no idea who TMQ is.

Players decide games but it's funny how everywhere Belichick goes, his players seem to win more games then other people. Six Super Bowl Appearances, 5 Rings, and 8 Conference Championship Appearances--he had 1 with Jets as DC and now another with Pats. I know many will claim Parcells was "leading" some of those teams, but seeing Parcells coach in Dallas and Belichick without Parcells, there is no doubt in my mind who was responsible for the winning when Belichick was a DC for Parcells.

[williambraskyiii]

I think the Pats kinda suck, but they make plays when it counts...that pick by Colvin (i believe) on the botched screen pass from Rivers to LT was downright nasty.

but you cannot overlook the fact that the Chargers gave this game away - it would be disingenuous to say otherwise. that godawful decision by the headbutting CB, the ridiculous attempt by the punt returner to pick up the ball after muffing it, and the 4th and 11 call are just a few of these things...so i dont know i think Schotts deserves the blame here - seriously - coaches have been fired for these types of slip-ups

[SFHoya99]

Dan, the CB smacked the receiver in the head long after the play was over. That's what I'm referring to.

Parker and McCree made their own plays. I guarantee that they would have done the same no matter the coach. Marty doesn't teach them to scoop it up and he definitely teaches "no turnovers."

As for the FG thing, I have no issues. I thought they should have punted. Kaeding may be "Pro Bowl" but outside of 45, he's not a good kicker. He's automatic from close and only Pro Bowl because Marty protected him from long kicks all year. Keep posting that he's "Pro Bowl" Dan -- it makes it obvious that this is the first time you've seen the Chargers all year.

I know NE fans want to pretend that they won the game. And NE has won many, many games. Colvin made a fantastic play. So did Troy Brown. But the Chargers gave away this game.

[DanMcQ]

sfhoya99 said:

Dan, the CB smacked the receiver in the head long after the play was over. That's what I'm referring to.

Didn't see it - will have to look at the DVR. I'm sure I can find several plays like that on either side - it was an exceptionally chippy game. Still doesn't excuse a blatant head butt right in front of the refereee.

Parker and McCree made their own plays. I guarantee that they would have done the same no matter the coach. Marty doesn't teach them to scoop it up and he definitely teaches "no turnovers."

Part of coaching is reigning guys like that in.

As for the FG thing, I have no issues. I thought they should have punted. Kaeding may be "Pro Bowl" but outside of 45, he's not a good kicker. He's automatic from close and only Pro Bowl because Marty protected him from long kicks all year. Keep posting that he's "Pro Bowl" Dan -- it makes it obvious that this is the first time you've seen the Chargers all year.

For the record, I would agree with you that a punt would have been as good a play.

I know NE fans want to pretend that they won the game. And NE has won many, many games. Colvin made a fantastic play. So did Troy Brown. But the Chargers gave away this game.

Keep posting that "the Chargers gave away this game" SF-- it makes it obvious that this is the first time you've seen the Patriots all year.



It was obvious that the Chargers made many mistakes. So did the Patriots - primarily because the Chargers were such a talented team on defense. To deny that the Patriots had anything to do with winning the game is to have your head in the sand.

[as an aside, it is extremely fun yanking your chain, SF]

[hifigator]

danmcq said:

hifigator said:

The 2 point throw was all Brady. He had to scramble a bit and then drew the defenders up as if he was going to run and then made a difficult throw back to the right moving to his left.

Um, the 2 point conversion was a nice fake by Brady, but it was a direct snap to Kevin Faulk.

Sorry about that. That was a brain freeze. I was talking about the touchdown not the conversion. I just got them mixed up. The conversion credit goes to Bellichek. But I still give Brady the credit for the touchdown for the same reasons I mentioned above.

[Deleted]

rdf said:

Players decide games but it's funny how everywhere Belichick goes, his players seem to win more games then other people. Six Super Bowl Appearances, 5 Rings, and 8 Conference Championship Appearances--he had 1 with Jets as DC and now another with Pats. I know many will claim Parcells was "leading" some of those teams, but seeing Parcells coach in Dallas and Belichick without Parcells, there is no doubt in my mind who was responsible for the winning when Belichick was a DC for Parcells.

Except Cleveland.

And his sub-.500 record in NE before Bledsoe went down and The Chosen One took over.

The guy is a great coach, but his career resume isn't spotless.

Belicheck is a good coach, but when it comes down to it players win and lose games. Brady is ridiculous, and the primary reason they have three rings in the past five or so years. I give Belicheck more credit for wins via his personnel decisions (along with Scott Pioli) than his coaching ones... THAT'S where he's proven his worth, in my opinion. As a talent evaluator, he appears to be second to very few (if any).

[RDF]

There is a huge difference between a CB and WR hand fighting and getting after it, and going up to a man's face and head butting him--right in front of the official. If Florence would've swiped at Graham with his hand and hit him in face as to say "get off me" he'd have been fine--he went up, head butted Graham and it was an easy call. There is a difference--and most officiating crews don't want to decide game with penalties--they'll let you play more in Playoffs, but the Chargers penalties were just so blatantly stupid--they had to be called.

For the Hobbs play not being called, I'd say Tomlinson should've gotten at least 5 but could've gotten 15 on the "tackle" he made on Colvin after the INT--but it was picked up. That crap evens out.

Part of "finding a way to win" is staying in the game when things are looking bleak and other team is outplaying you. I thought Chargers really squandered an opportunity in 1st Quarter--Pats constantly inside their own 10 and not moving ball at all and by end of quarter what was score? 3-0 Pats. That was huge to hang in when it could've easily been 14-0 Edited - 15 yards, personal foul.

[SFHoya99]

I'm not saying the Hobbs thing should have been called or that the officials decided the game. Merely, Dan, that you seem to blame every action the players make on the coach. Since Ellis Hobbs made a boneheaded play, does that mean Belicheck doesn't ahve control of his team?

[DanMcQ]

SF: no it does not. As I said earlier in the thread, I was being somewhat hyperbolic in my comments.

However, you yourself stated that the Patriots did not win the game, the Chargers gave it to them. How did that happen? Yes, there were some ball bounces that went the wrong way, but that happened to both teams.

The Chargers had more inopportune undisciplined plays. It is the coaching staff's job to minimize those and to get the team emotionally ready without letting them get to the point where they make stupid plays. It is also the coaching staff's job to make sure timeouts don't get blown frivolously and to make adjustments when your opponent gets the upper hand. The Chargers were dominating the game defensively - the Patriots ditched their offensive game plan and had success - the Chargers never altered their defensive game plan.

Without the undisciplined plays and with better game management/adjustment, the team with the best record and personnel in football to that point would have won the game. Of course it is not entirely the coaching staff, but those things are what turn playoff games around.

My last post on this as we aren't likely to convince each other and I don't want to get in trouble with the moderators.

[kchoya]

danmcq said:

Excellent line today on one of the Patriots radio pregame shows:

"Herman Edwards is the Marty Schottenheimer of the new millenium"

- - Tom Curran, Patriots Football Weekly

I'm a little late to this thread, but as a KC native/fan, I'll wait for Herm to lose as a #1 seed like Marty (twice) and Vermeil (once) before I go that far.

[DanMcQ]

duxnews said:

SF and Buff:
It's Belichick. A "Belicheck" is what you get if you're a cameraman standing in the way of Bill hugging Eric Mangini ;D.

Dux:

Humor has no place in this thread.

Thanks anyway, I will be certain to use my SpellChick next time.

[hifigator]

RDF, your point about refs "letting them play" and "not wanting to decide the game" is certainly valid. Part of the decrease in penalties is probably because the overall level of play is better, but if I remember correctly, there wasn't a penalty called in either half of either game yesterday. That is a bit different from regular season games no doubt. Additionally, I have specifically noticed a hesitancy to call offensive holding. I know the rules changed a couple of years back and it isn't called with near the frequency as it was in years past, but I saw several plays with out and out tackles by the O-linemen in plain sight that weren't called.

In any case, I think the ref's reluctance to become a main "part of the action" does play into it. As we all know, that philosophy is also implemented in March Madness as well as NBA playoffs. Personally, I prefer that style of officiating. Why do you think they wait and start it in the playoffs? I understand that when the games mean more the refs don't want to be the key, but what is it that makes them so much more interested in getting involved when the games don't mean as much?

[DanMcQ]

hifigator said:

if I remember correctly, there wasn't a penalty called in either half of either game yesterday.

Hello??

Did they actually televise the games in Florida or were you just playing Madden 2007?

Seattle had 5 penalties; Chicago had 4 (including a Hester punt return for a TD called back for an illegal block).

SD had 7 penalties; NE 4 (3 on Logan Mankins - 2 for offensive holding).

[hifigator]

Sorry about that Dan. That was supposed to say "no penalties in the first half of either game.[/b] I don't know if I was just trying to type too fast or if a customer asked me something, distracting me or what. In any case, yes there were penalties in the second half of both games. If I had meant that neither game had any penalties, then I wouldn't have even mentioned the "halfs" at all. In fact there were 3 penalties called almost in a row right before halftime in the Bears game which ended up being waived off. There was an illegal contact penalty which "didn't occur" since Rex Grossman had scrambled out of the pocket as well as two other penalties which were declined. There weren't any accepted penalties though in the first half of either game. That is what I meant. Sorry about that.

[DanMcQ]

Hifi:

3 enforced penalties in the 2nd quarter of the Patriots-Chargers game.

scores.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=270114024&quarter=2

However, YAWN.

[DanMcQ]

Yet another nice comeback by Mr. Brady.