NFL Playoff Thread

[RDF]

Is Trent Green the worst QB in Playoffs? This guy really SUCKS-I mean it's borderline Reggie Ball suckage out there. I watched the HS All American Bowl today and I'd take 2/3 of the kids I saw today over his performance in 1st Half--they couldn't do any worse. WOW--that is garbage.

[DanMcQ]

RDF: the whole KC offense is truly pathetic today. The first first down in the third quarter?

[RDF]

First game sucked--boring/bad football.

Dallas-Seattle game wasn't well played--but was a great game to watch with wild/fun ending. (well unless you are a Dallas fan)

Is there a more overrated player then Roy Williams of the Cowboys? What does he do? He really killed his team today and in games I've seen--he's a liability in coverage, he's a hard hitter but not a game changing player, and he either dives at ankles or horse collars ball carrier--not to mention he appears to be playing about 25/30 lbs overweight.

Fine ending--but didn't see a thing from either team that made me think they could do anything against Chicago/New Orleans.

I think Kansas City should be placed on "probation" for not showing up to play football--well speaking of the offense that is. AWFUL--and worst part was how happy Herm Edwards was after the game--what a damn loser that clown is--maybe he can give a dissertation on football like he loves to do after games/or in week of practice.

Peyton Manning--another performance like today--and he'll be home contemplating what it's going to take to win--he was crappy as well. Just a BAD Playoff game and thank goodness the Dallas/Seattle game was at least entertaining and had guys making some plays.

[ExcitableBoy]

rdf said:

Is Trent Green the worst QB in Playoffs? This guy really SUCKS-I mean it's borderline Reggie Ball suckage out there. I watched the HS All American Bowl today and I'd take 2/3 of the kids I saw today over his performance in 1st Half--they couldn't do any worse. WOW--that is garbage.

Trent Green is in a different league than the worst QB in the playoffs. Two words: Rex Grossman.

Ever since the Bears' bye week, he has been like watching footage of a car careering out of control down an icy hill. You know there is no way that it is going to end up good for anyone except the camera man who will get paid for the footage (in Rex's case the DB that intercepts his passes).

[hoya01]

I'm a huge Cowboys fan and I feel awful for Tony Romo. I just hope he realizes the Cowboys would not have been in the playoffs had it not been for his play earlier in the season.

[DanMcQ]

Excellent line today on one of the Patriots radio pregame shows:

"Herman Edwards is the Marty Schottenheimer of the new millenium"

- - Tom Curran, Patriots Football Weekly

[DanMcQ]

Strong win all around by the Patriots today.

[Frank Black]

I love the New York Giants. Which is why I can say with all my heart that I can't stand the New York Giants. Do you have to wait until the end of the postgame news conference to fire a coach? Coughlin's team is the most undisciplined and disorganized team this side of Oakland. That goes back to coaching. And he's supposed to be a disciplinarian.

[TBird41]

frankblack said:

I love the New York Giants. Which is why I can say with all my heart that I can't stand the New York Giants. Do you have to wait until the end of the postgame news conference to fire a coach? Coughlin's team is the most undisciplined and disorganized team this side of Oakland. That goes back to coaching. And he's supposed to be a disciplinarian.

No, you don't. Zygi Wilf (Vikings owner) fired Mike Tice in the locker room after the final game last year.

[Deleted]

frankblack said:

I love the New York Giants. Which is why I can say with all my heart that I can't stand the New York Giants. Do you have to wait until the end of the postgame news conference to fire a coach? Coughlin's team is the most undisciplined and disorganized team this side of Oakland. That goes back to coaching. And he's supposed to be a disciplinarian.

I loved Coughlin's "Don't forget about the good things we've done" comments in the post-game press conf.

Translation: "Don't fire me."

[RDF]

Good game tonight---and Thank goodness for TIVO!! ;D

Only question has to be Andy Reid punting the ball on the 4th and 15, but good game and at least some teams who showed up to play.

That game earlier today was AWFUL. Will say that Tony Dungy has Colts playing like his Buc teams, ugly, borderline unwatchable, but they are finding a way to win--and today it was due to getting to face the 2nd worst offensive team I've seen in Postseason play in a while-Baltimore was only slightly better then Chiefs last weekend and while it's due to some improved defense by Colts, it's also due to the ineptness at QB in the NFL. McNair is someone who is tough, he's a leader, and he can't make a play to save his life within structure of offense. When it's 2 minute he's at his best, when it's in an offensive system, you often see crappy performances like today--but that is how most of the NFL is set up these days-be a "game manager" and that usually ends up as we saw today--in a poorly managed loss come January.

I'm pulling for a Saints-against Pats Super Bowl but I think it's going to be Saints against Manning--and so much BS will be added due to his "ties" to New Orleans I will likely not watch the game live--have to TIVO through it--much better process for the COMMERCIAL festival the NFL throws in viewers faces. I'm pulling for Pats and don't mind Marty--but Marty Ball is coming-and I think it could appear tomorrow and ruin a great season by Tomlinson and a fun team to watch--best team I had seen all year. Marty just needs to do what got them there--and that is attack and play loose.

Anyone else going to nap tomorrow during the Bears ROUT of one of the most drab, boring franchises in any sport--the Seahawks? Are they still whining about last year's Super Bowl or is that finally over? Oh well--here's to a Saints-Bears NFC Title game and can't go wrong with any AFC Title Game scenario--as it'll involve the best teams I've seen this year--those 4 teams were best I saw all year and deserve to play for Championship--Seattle BLOWS and will show why tomorrow.

[2ndRyan]

Agree that in retrospect the punt call was key. I guess Reid believed that the odds of pulling out another fourth down conversion after the false start were less than that which his defense hadn't done all game-stop the Saints running attack.

Key statistic for me- time of possession. The Saints had the ball for ten more minutes. The Eagles in their December playoff run had relied on a steady ground attack, more passes than runs game plan, which kept a pretty fragile defense off the field. Wesbrooks scintillating run aside, there was no ground game for the Eagles today and the Eagles called 30 pass plays, 20 running plays.

After a bruising game last week the defense loooked worn down late . The guys flying around the field to start the game (Sheldon Brown's hit on Reggie Bush) were out of gas at crunch time.

[DanMcQ]

Never bet against Mr. Brady.

;D

....loved the little bit of Boise State on the 2 point conversion...

...and Troy Brown was HUGE.

...interesting tidbit from the Boston post-game TV: Philip Rivers "saw something on the Jumbotron" and came running down the sideline and told Schottenheimer to throw the red flag on that play - leaving them with no timeouts at the end of the game. Hard to believe that Martyball came to the fore yet again.

[SFHoya99]

danmcq said:

Never bet against Mr. Brady.

;D

....loved the little bit of Boise State on the 2 point conversion...

...and Troy Brown was HUGE.

...interesting tidbit from the Boston post-game TV: Philip Rivers "saw something on the Jumbotron" and came running down the sideline and told Schottenheimer to throw the red flag on that play - leaving them with no timeouts at the end of the game. Hard to believe that Martyball came to the fore yet again.

How was that Martyball, Dan? You're being a sheep.

Marty didn't drop 5-10 passes, an interception, fumble a punt or fumble off an interception. Martyball isn't two dumb penalties -- one of which should have been offsetting. Martyball is playing conservative to avoid turnovers. This had nothing to do with Marty. And frankly, the Pats had nothing to do with this game, either.

The Chargers players made a bunch of mistakes. The Patriots got lucky, because they were being dominated.

[DanMcQ]

SF - there is always some luck involved in these games.

Blindly throwing the challenge flag without any real chance of it being a successful challenge on the advice of someone who just ran up to you having seen something on the jumbotron is Martyball. Going for it on 4th and 11 at the opponent's 30 instead of having your Pro Bowl kicker attempt a field goal that may well have won the game is Martyball. Coaching a team that has far superior talent than your opponent yet is incredibly undisciplined - enough so to lose a game it should have won - is Martyball. That 'bunch of mistakes' you refer to is not all coincidence.

Martyball is not just being conservative, it is also having trouble making the right decisions at crunch time in playoff games.

Saying the Patriots simply got lucky is doing them a disservice: yes, they got some lucky breaks but they don't win that game (again, against superior overall talent) without making big plays when they had to be made.

[SFHoya99]

Believe me, Dan, I've seen every Chargers game this year. The team is not undisciplined. Players had awful games and it isn't Marty's fault. Marty's teams have always been disciplined, commit very few turnovers and rarely take risks. Nothing you comment on is that. You've changed "Martyball" from being "overly conservative" to "anything that makes someone lose." That's ridiculous.

The Patriots made some plays, but don't give me any of this Brady mystique crap. He's an excellent quarterback who threw an interception on a must-have fourth down. He got bailed out. Chalking this game up to Marty/Belicheck or Brady is an example of trying to fit facts to a pre-conceived notions. Everyone said this would be Marty-Belicheck. This wasn't Marty-Belicheck.

If this was Marty-Belicheck, no game EVER is about the players.

[RDF]

Marty only had one "Marty Ball" moment today--that 2nd and 1 play where he could:

A. Go Deep off play action
B. Pass off play action
C. Feed Tomlinson via run or screen
D. Throw to Gates
E. Get Michael Turner in and use him


What happens? FULLBACK TRAP. Next play after that gets 1st Down--Rivers picked by Colvin.

I think Marty wasn't to blame for the clock mis-management. That is all on Rivers--taking a friggin Timeout after an injury timeout? Disgustingly awful. The guys upstairs did a stupid thing telling him to review the Troy Brown strip/recovery too. It's not worth losing a timeout--you are up 8 and worst case is that New England ties game--which happens but you need the timeouts more then to challenge that play--it wasn't close enough to get overturn.

Rivers also did a Edited poor job of getting a play off after first completion--he let 20+ seconds run off clock by wasting time and flipping WR's on opposite side of field--if you are that concerned--just clock the ball and set up a play.

It's also not luck when you have Quentin Jammer isolated on anyone in man coverage on a 3rd and 10--any DB from Big XII should be attacked in passing game--I'm just convinced that league is retarded when it comes to defending a quality passing game. Why not play zone and force the marginal/average WR of Patriots to get open and make Brady throw in traffic?

If Drew Brees is Charger QB today--Chargers win easily. Rivers was shaky down stretch and he did a poor job with 2 minute today--that was awful execution of clock management. A 54 yard FG isn't a great job of putting your team in position when you had ball with more then a minute left--despite not having any timeouts.

The penalties were pure ignorance and stupidity. Those type of plays reflect on your coaching staff--it's their job to have players emotions in check. I don't care what the sport is, if players make stupid plays like that--it's a poorly prepared/coached team. What's more important? Getting a shot in or winning the game?

As for Tomlinson not liking the mocking of Merriman--Win the game and you wouldn't have to see it. That crap always cracks me up--it's like the loser Cowboy fans who didn't like Owens celebrating on "star" or that Lions WR firing a fastball and breaking the star at Texas Stadium. That crap can't happen if you don't let other team score/win, right? Seeing Neal and Rivers jawing early in First Quarter too--so it goes both ways and if you lose, realize you're going to eat some stuff.

[DanMcQ]

SF: of course I am being partly hyperbolic, but...

Why did Marty "I gave the jobs to the coordinators and got out of the way" feel the need to put the headset on for the last 6 minutes of the game?

Belicheck did two important things:

1. He had his players focused and ready to play.

2. Their offense was completely shut down early in the game by the Chargers' defense. They scrapped the 2 tight end offense and went to 3 wide receivers, leaving Brady more exposed to the blitz but giving him more opportunities in the passing game, and the Chargers never adjusted.

"Players had awful games and it isn't Marty's fault." What else is the head coach supposed to do if it isn't keep guys focused? Head butting somebody in front of the ref isn't an "awful game", it's an undisciplined bonehead play. There were plenty of other plays like that, including that idiotic penalty on the extra point that had SD kicking off from their 15.

As for Mr. Tomlinson's post-game lament, interviews with multiple Patriot players indicated that there was more than enough in-game trash talking by the Chargers to get their ire up. The news stories planning the Chargers' post Super Bowl parade date and route was stellar as well.

The difference between playing next week and watching from home: the Patriots saved the bonehead stuff for after the game.

There is no "Brady mystique" - other than the guy always remains cool under pressure and there is no current quarterback better at making clutch plays in playoff situations than Brady. He did the same thing today. Give him credit - he found a way to beat one of the best defenses in football.

By the way, that was not a fumble off an interception - that was a STRIP by Troy Brown - another player who always seems to make an important clutch play when playoff games are on the line.

patriots.bostonherald.com/patriots/view.bg?articleid=177239

www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/01/14/it_was_quite_a_display/

[SFHoya99]

So -- when Hobbs smacked the Charger wide receiver and no flag was thrown, that was Belicheck not having control of his players? Or was that Belicheck being awesome because he taught Hobbs to do that when the officials weren't looking.

I just want to make sure we're holding everyone to the same standard. I personally am of same belief as TMQ -- see his article from last week. Coaches dont make plays, players do.

I personally thought Rivers played well. He was far from perfect, but his receivers dropped a lot of passes. Simply remove Eric Parker from the game and the Chargers win.

[DanMcQ]

Hello - it's football - you're supposed to hit the receivers if you are a CB or DB. You're not supposed to head butt them, especially right in front of the official.

Any Pop Warner player knows if he muffs a punt catch he should just fall on it, not try and pick it up to run. At the time of the game when McCree intercepted the pass, the right play was to fall on it since he was in the middle of a bunch of players AND the game would have been essentially over. But no. "I never did," McCree said when asked if he considered knocking the ball down. "I was trying to make a play, and any time I get the ball I'm going to try and score." Players make plays, but coaching puts them in position to make the right plays.

Don't allow your offensive coordinator to say "I've got a play for 4th and 11" when you have a makeable kick for your Pro Bowl kicker from the 30. Don't let your offensive coordinator put your best weapon (Tomlinson) in the witness protection program for most of the second half. What - a 58 yard screen play isn't good enough to ever try it again?

A coach who can coach winning playoff football can take a team with visibly less talent across the board and get them focused enough to win against a team that is already looking ahead to the Super Bowl. A coach who can't coach winning playoff football takes a team with the best record in football and arguably the best talent in football and loses.

Rivers did play passably well, but he made plays you expect an inexperienced QB to make - like wasting a timeout immediately AFTER an injury timeout. The Charger game plan in the second half put too much weight on his shoulders and somehow strayed away from what would have won them the game: keeping the ball in LTs hands. I guess that's players making plays - no coaching involvement there.

Speaking of that, Mr. Lights Out himself, the king of trash talkers (who predicted at halftime of the Pats-Jets game that the Chargers would be playing the Jets) was nowhere to be found yesterday - with only 2 tackles. Nobody singles out Matt Light, but there was a player making big plays all afternoon.

You're right - players make plays - and the Patriots made more of them when it counted than the Chargers did. That's why they are playing next week.

As Bill Parcells says, you are what you are. Belichick and Brady are 12-1 in postseason games. Hard to argue with that.

I have no idea who TMQ is.