RDF
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Post by RDF on Dec 29, 2005 17:28:49 GMT -5
Wild game last night in San Antonio and do you realize how close Michigan was to winning without having to score? All a Wolverine player had to do was run into one of the Huskers who came onto the field and it's an automatic TD--could've run into Callahan or Staff member and it would've been same result. As is, they should've scored by having TE lateral one more time to Breaston.
Officiating was awful but Lloyd Carr's coaching was even worse--as it always is. Great game by the players involved and so far this Bowl season has been thoroughly entertaining and well matched. Just need to get competent officials to raise their level to that of players involved.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Dec 30, 2005 21:02:04 GMT -5
I am not generally an Oklahoma football fan - but I was at the home of a donor last night and watching the game against Oregon. A couple of items:
1) I don't see how anyone can defend the strength of the PAC-10 outside of USC in the last few years give bowl performances like these.
2) Why throw a pass at that point in the game?! They wanted a FG right?
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TigerHoya
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Post by TigerHoya on Dec 30, 2005 21:35:44 GMT -5
Which was the bigger choke today, Northwestern or South Carolina?
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Dec 30, 2005 21:57:54 GMT -5
Does anyone else think that LSU is whupping on Miami because they hate Hurricanes? Why didn't this occur to me before I plunked down cash on this game? That's 50 bucks I'll never see again...
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Dec 31, 2005 0:09:20 GMT -5
Does anyone else think that LSU is whupping on Miami because they hate Hurricanes? Why didn't this occur to me before I plunked down cash on this game? That's 50 bucks I'll never see again... Simple answer for you--GRANDPA CLAPPY strikes again. If you don't know who that is I am referring to, read back a few pages and you'll know. Got to say I loved seeing the passion and hunger from LSU's team and all credit to them. That's how UM used to play, but why would you want to be fired up for a game--you only play 12 times a year right?? I don't get into the "This conference is better than that conference because your 8th place team beat their 3rd place team" debate. So many issues can effect bowl games and while I feel that Pac 10 isn't best league, I certainly think it's not a pushover--don't feel that way about any league. Some don't impress me with their style of play, but it's about results in a particular year and Big XII is winning their matchups to their credit, but matchups have been favorable to this point as well. Only game that surprised me was Missouri winning today to be honest. Oregon with Kellen Clemens makes last night's game a W but you play with what is there and Sooners found a way to win. Miami's dissention led to this margin as much as anything. Things are NOT GOOD in Coral Gables and a lot of "ME, ME, ME, I, I, I" guys on this team. Look at this way--they built an entire offense around a player to try and keep him--100% true story. If you have to do that what's that say about direction of program and the player? If he's that "special" why did it take until now to do this? I love Hester's talents, but you don't do this for ANY player--you utilize his talents to help the team--not dominate it hoping he returns. If you were surprised by Sun Bowl--you didn't see UCLA's season--they did this all year and it's just way of the Pac 10 and West Coast football. Love the Bowl games and for the most part, been outstanding--apologize to any fan who had to watch Miami stink up this night for you and only can say it was enjoyable to watch a good football team in LSU play with heart, selflessness, and passion. Congrats.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Dec 31, 2005 1:23:08 GMT -5
Does anyone else think that LSU is whupping on Miami because they hate Hurricanes? Why didn't this occur to me before I plunked down cash on this game? That's 50 bucks I'll never see again... Simple answer for you--GRANDPA CLAPPY strikes again. If you don't know who that is I am referring to, read back a few pages and you'll know. Got to say I loved seeing the passion and hunger from LSU's team and all credit to them. That's how UM used to play, but why would you want to be fired up for a game--you only play 12 times a year right?? Miami's dissention led to this margin as much as anything. Things are NOT GOOD in Coral Gables and a lot of "ME, ME, ME, I, I, I" guys on this team. Look at this way--they built an entire offense around a player to try and keep him--100% true story. If you have to do that what's that say about direction of program and the player? If he's that "special" why did it take until now to do this? I love Hester's talents, but you don't do this for ANY player--you utilize his talents to help the team--not dominate it hoping he returns. So I'm watching the second half in a bar down here in South Florida, and the bar loses the TV feed for like 5 minutes. Nobody, including myself, seems to care that much. Well that was a splendiferous ass kicking now wasn't it? I think the only thing that would have made it worse was if Miami's players had done something really unprofessional that reminded us of the lack of discipline in the Dennis Erickson days, like throw punches in the tunnel on the way out. Wait, what, they totally did exactly that? That really was a game where one team cared and one team didn't. Which sometimes you just throw out b/c it's a bowl that technically doesn't mean a whole lot, with two teams that "fell" there. But this WAS two Top 10 teams (one of only three bowls that can say that I believe). And the whole lack of discipline thing like RDF said is becoming a real problem again in Coral Gables. I don't know what to think of your read on the Hester situtation, RDF. I mean I read stuff about Coker using him on offense next year back at Thanksgiving, written in such a way that it was made to seem a foregone conclusion that he was coming back, so I don't know if they're trying to "keep" him. Maybe there was some promise there, I don't know. I just think they literally have nothing on offense right now to work with. Losing Tyrone Moss absolutely killed them, but let's be honest he isn't exactly Clinton Portis or Willis McGahee here. Charlie Jones is a nice young back, but right now I think it's fitting he wears the same number as Jarrett Payton did. Lance Leggett is REALLY awesome at throwing his hands up when he gets mixed up with Kyle Wright, Darnell Jenkins I get mixed up w/ Michael Jenkins cause I'm a Falcons fan. I think Ryan Moore getting suspended was just another creative way he found to disappear in a big game. Justin Timberlake Kyle Wright's def. talented, and he's got two years to work with, but give the guy some PEOPLE to work with. They need something, I'll say that. And Hester's the most explosive thing they got, and TRUST ME if you've seen him play DB you don't want that. Heck, we'll see what they do with the guy next year...he did okay as a WR tonight, which I liked better than the same sweep play all the time. Seriously though, if there's a conspiracy-theory type thing you want to go with from tonight, I'm thinking the defense had some double-secret plan to prevent Randy Shannon from getting HC job interviews. Cause that was beyond embarrassing with all the missed tackles and making it reeeeeealllly easy on a freshman quarterback when every wrinkle they ran worked perfectly. (South Carolina's a bigger choke, cause coming back from early 20-pt. deficits happens in like EVERY Pac-10 or Northwestern game) (EDIT: P.S. to RDF--as of tonight, the "Grandpa Clappy" joke is still batting 1.000 with Cane fans/friends of mine.)
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Dec 31, 2005 2:55:12 GMT -5
FlHoya, did you see Clappy doing his "thing" in First Quarter? It NEVER fails--here is the sequence--Adjust the cap, move headset to elbow, and clap with hands extended as his team does something he sees as a positive--like kick a FG or hold a team to a FG. Larry's a good guy and good Assistant but NOT a good Head Coach. He won with Butch Davis' talent and while Pete Garcia is back at Miami, I don't know how involved he'll get with Clappy in charge. BTW--why did the team act like a bunch of idiots after the game? For the love of God wasn't the game humiliating enough? Hell no, our morons have to get involved in a fight and there is NO EXCUSE for this. It's one thing if you fight on the field of play but another to behave like this off the field and after a game. Editeded beyond belief about this--didn't know about it until an hour ago either. Geez, what a disgrace and step backwards. Hester said he was returning publicly but privately he is talking of leaving--because he knows Clappy says he'll use players and never does. Same with Baratka Atkins, Ryan Moore--who I hope leaves anyway--he stinks and is a CANCER on the team. Question for you about defense--why doesn't Willie Williams play more? He came in for the only good defensive series we had in 1st Half and then he was gone. Why? Like to see him, Daryl Sharpton, and Spencer Adkins at the LB next year but that's just my take--and I know it will be Beason, Gooden, and Romeo Davis or Glenn Cook. Clappy Ball is something you definately have to cringe at and as I like to say it adds to the saying you don't EVER want to catch the "Clap"--especially in a big game.
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Joe Hoya
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Post by Joe Hoya on Dec 31, 2005 5:20:19 GMT -5
Just curious how UMich would have gotten an automatic touchdown by running into a Nebraska player. Is this an unknown rule? Seriously, I've never heard about that in any of the coverage of the play.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 31, 2005 10:44:04 GMT -5
Just curious how UMich would have gotten an automatic touchdown by running into a Nebraska player. Is this an unknown rule? Seriously, I've never heard about that in any of the coverage of the play. It would not have been an automatic touchdown. There was a famous play in the 1954 Cotton Bowl where an Alabama player left the bench to tackle a Rice runner who had an unobstructed route to a TD. The score was allowed in that case, but in the case of contact with bench personnel on the field it would likely be a spot foul and an untimed down at the point of interference.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 31, 2005 12:28:22 GMT -5
Interesting opinion from Dan Wetzel on USC's possible threepeat: sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news;_ylt=AoUB1CAYQtkeaqxQ96YM8U8cvrYF?slug=dw-usc3peat122205&prov=yhoo&type=lgnsThis has been my opinion for a while, too, and I've had some fun arguments with some USC alums I know on this subject. What Wetzel doesn't add, maybe out of loyalty to his media brethren, is that the AP voters had a conflict of interest when they voted for USC as No. 1. With this vote, the sportswriters were allowed to effectively determine the future of college football. The vote could have been viewed as: if you want the AP poll to go back to being important, then vote for USC. If you want to be merely a part of a dumb formula that the NCAA made up, vote for LSU. If you would like to write stories on how messed up the college football system is ALL FREAKIN' SEASON in the coming years, then vote for USC. If you want everyone to agree the BCS is the best system out there, vote for LSU. If you just plain don't like the BCS, or think the coaches who vote in their poll are dumb, or think the computers are dumber, vote for USC and stick it to the BCS. If not, vote for LSU. I'd also note that before the final polls came out, ESPN & friends were hyping the possibility that the AP voters could revolt, and all the "good things" that would come with such a revolt, like this playoff system that "everyone" wants. Now, the fact that this situation arose at all was the fault of the BCS and its computer polls, which picked OU over the Trojans. But the way the cards fell, I think a lot of AP voters were voting for more than just the best team in the land. I think that at least some voters voted mainly for the AP poll to be important, and then those same voters and their editors backed up the vote in newspapers nationwide by declaring a split national championship. Keep telling yourself that, Austin. The rest of the country wants to think USC hasn't been that good the last three/four years. They have. Please reference last year's BCS "Championship." As for Wetzel's argument, eh, the BCS is stupid. There's nothing legitimate about a bunch of rich people getting together and proclaiming something. The AP is no more legit, but people have insisted for years on counting every national title in football -- UPI, Sporting News, etc., so why get selective now? Because the bowls made up something to make more money?
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Jan 1, 2006 16:10:30 GMT -5
Keep telling yourself that, Austin. The rest of the country wants to think USC hasn't been that good the last three/four years. They have. Please reference last year's BCS "Championship." As for Wetzel's argument, eh, the BCS is stupid. There's nothing legitimate about a bunch of rich people getting together and proclaiming something. The AP is no more legit, but people have insisted for years on counting every national title in football -- UPI, Sporting News, etc., so why get selective now? Because the bowls made up something to make more money? SF, I never said USC wasn't that good the past few years. Please quit reading an anti-Pac-10/West Coast bias into posts on this thread. FWIW, I've been making this argument since well before "last year's BCS championship," although I haven't posted it on this message board before now. I started making it in '03 because I thought LSU was a better team than USC and won within the BCS system. (For the record, I thought LSU was better than OU also.) And because I know some USC alums who annoyingly thought their team that year was '84 Nebraska-good and would have been hyped as such and would have been in the Rose Bowl had it not been for that evil east-coast bias. And yes, people have claimed to be UPI and Sporting News National Champions, but consensus National Championships in my lifetime, before the BCS, were decided by only two polls: the AP poll and the Coaches' Poll. Polls still get a team into the national championship, but the BCS was designed to move away from crowning a champion based on the polls. That system was blown up by the AP voters' rebellion in '03. The system we have now is: there's a national championship game, but not really, because the old system of crowning a champion via polls exists alongside the new system. I don't like it, and maybe I unfairly associate USC with the current system. This Southern Cal team is going to be remembered as one of the greatest ever, no matter what the outcome on Wednesday. Leinart and Bush will be CFB heros for ages, and rightly so. But if someone, sometime in the future, wins three consensus national titles in a row, you can bet that team will be annointed "The Greatest of All Time" precisely because USC's threepeat included a shared title based on a biased vote. If you would like to tell me how there wasn't a conflict of interest in the '03 AP vote, I'd love to hear it. But until you can say something other that "Keep telling yourself that," I'm putting you in the group with the blind USC alums/homers I know.
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Jan 2, 2006 13:00:36 GMT -5
Here's where I'm torn: I think USC is a very good football team, but the Pac-10 is pretty lousy football conference.
The SEC is not a lousy football conference. LSU was as much national champs as USC, but worse, Auburn was also as much National Champs as USC regardless of votes.
So before I think USC has won three legitimate national titles, I have to believe they've won one. I can't because the BCS formula (and the voters themselves) twice over-valued the Big 12, in one case selecting it's runner-up and in the other choosing them because the SEC champ didn't start the season ranked high enough.
USC is good but what they're going for this year is to be all alone at the top with no controversy for the first time.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 2, 2006 22:56:17 GMT -5
I think it is a ridiculous argument that the BCS somehow has a monopoly on crowning a national title. This system's goal is to maximize revenue for the conferences and bowls and networks, not to find the best team. To me, it is no more legitimate or illegitimate than the AP or Coaches or UPI or Sporting News or whatever has a decent reason for being able to considered legit. So I recognize them all. Miami/Washington in 1991, that Georgia Tech title with whomever they shared it with, etc. And USC two years ago. Was there conflict of interest in the vote? Sure, but a) I don't remember the vote being that close and b) I think most press folks legitimately thought USC was better. If the AP didn't think USC was better, they wouldn't have voted that way. They could have declared their independence at any time. Wetzel's argument is ludicrous unless he somehow believes the BCS to be a magical formula. Your argument is silly unless you really think that turned the tide. I don't really believe in East Coast bias regarding USC, though I think that there is bias -- it is just more towards certain big schools. For example, compare Texas' pre-season ranking with their post-season for the last five years and tell me the media doesn't love your team? An anti-USC bias? No. At least not now. I'm not even a USC fan. Both my parents went to Penn State (and don't think I didn't notice you picking them to lose almost every game this season, Austin ), and I've been a fan since birth. My sister went to SC so they are a distant, distant second. But the "USC isn't that good" arguments are tired. I heard them before USC played Iowa in the year before their national title; before they beat Michigan; and then last year in full force from all the Big X people before they absolutely OBLITERATED Oklahoma. If USC beats Texas on Wednesday, and I admit Texas looks like the best team they've played in a bowl in that span, what's the excuse from you folks going to be? Giga, if anyone had seen fit -- ANYONE -- to crown Auburn as a national champion, I'd give them it. But no one did; even Tobby Tuberville admitted that USC was too tough.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Jan 2, 2006 23:31:29 GMT -5
Texas will win because I bet on USC and I've been wrong about basically every other bet I've put out there this week. Thank god Wisconsin smacked Auburn or I'd be starting the year on a very sour note.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jan 4, 2006 1:05:21 GMT -5
That was an uggggglllly Orange Bowl. Jeez. 80 missed field goals, 50 total yards in the 3rd quarter (and by 50, I mean PSU and FSU combined). The highlight had to be the awkward high five that Mike Tirico and Kirk Herbstreet exchanged in the booth in the 3rd quarter when they were talking about Herbstreet's travel itenerary. That was comedic gold.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 4, 2006 1:32:18 GMT -5
That was an uggggglllly Orange Bowl. Jeez. 80 missed field goals, 50 total yards in the 3rd quarter (and by 50, I mean PSU and FSU combined). The highlight had to be the awkward high five that Mike Tirico and Kirk Herbstreet exchanged in the booth in the 3rd quarter when they were talking about Herbstreet's travel itenerary. That was comedic gold. I thought it was a fantastic game right up until people started choking left and right -- a center, both kickers, etc. I like defensive battles and this wasn't awful offense, just some fantastic defenses. PSU had the better offense and FSU just shut down the outside runs with speed and the inside running with blitzes. A great adjustment. FSU had the weaker offense but they had, what, five straight possessions basically on the PSU side and Penn State kept beating them back. On every FG situation, it seemed PSU did something to drive them back. And don't blame FSU for all the holding -- PSU didn't have a sack; FSU just decided to hold. Michael Robinson was getting blown up on every play and kept delivering on third and long, third and short. Weatherford did a great job of not making a lot of mistakes. Then, of course, people started choking and it kinda cheapened the game.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jan 4, 2006 1:48:39 GMT -5
I appreciated the defense, just not all the penalties and ugly FG misses. Plus it took forever--that game was 4+ hours long, and that was before overtime.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 4, 2006 2:06:46 GMT -5
I appreciated the defense, just not all the penalties and ugly FG misses. Plus it took forever--that game was 4+ hours long, and that was before overtime. Yeah it was too long, but keep in mind most of FSU's penalties would have been sacks or incomplete passes or stuffed runs, but I actually think their strategy was to hold and hope nothing was called.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Jan 4, 2006 4:30:02 GMT -5
Despite the penalties and sloppy special teams it was an incredibly fun game to watch. That's all I want out of bowl games that don't actively involve people I know (KeJuan Jones, Oklahoma; Nick Bunting, Tulsa) - and it delivered. I can only hope that the game tomorrow will be as interesting. Btw, quite a week for games: The Cotton Bowl was fun to watch, Notre Dame was somewhat entertaining, tonights game, National Campionship, Georgetown vs. Providence, and Redskins at Tampa Bay.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Jan 4, 2006 10:43:08 GMT -5
BCS: Fiesta: Ohio State over Notre Dame Sugar: West Virginia shocks UGA Orange: Penn State over Fla. State in a close one Rose: Texas snaps the streak on a FG with time expiring, just like last year in Pasadena. Well, it would be nice if I picked all the BCS bowls exactly right. However, my pick record in the other bowls this year is terrible, so I'm not proclaiming myself omnipotent just yet. BCS impressions: Fiesta: This really shouldn't have been this close. Turnovers in the first half, Tressel ball in the second kept the Irish in this one. If anyone bet on Notre Dame in this one, consider betting on the Fighting Sweater Vests next season: OSU has won four bowls in a row, including a national championship, a Fiesta win over K-State, and a complete beatdown of Okla. St. in last year's Alamo Bowl. I was pretty impressed by Troy Smith on the offensive side of the ball: if Tressel had benched Zwick in the Texas game, and Smith had played like that, the 'Horns might not be playing in Pasadena today. On the defensive side of the ball, great game plan by Ohio State forcing Notre Dame to throw underneath. Did everyone see Brady Quinn's sister? I began to wonder whether I was actually watching a football broadcast. We tried playing the Brent Musberger drinking game for this one, but Brent has apparently stopped saying "pardner" on the air. Sugar: I have a soft spot for West Virginia, mainly because I still think Don Nehlen's quote in '94: "We beat the team that beat the team that beat the team," is one of the funnier public statements by a HFC in my lifetime. So I was glad to see the 'eers jump out to an early lead. Huge recruting boost for WVU: they're clearly the most put-together program in the Big East. And I think if Rodriguez can add some more talent on the O-line and defense to Pat White/Steve Slaton, he'll have himself a Top 5 team in Morgantown. Hell, when this year's final AP poll comes out, he might already have a Top 5 team, technically speaking. Really don't think Georgia lost because of lack of talent -- the Mountaineers were just more prepared for this bowl game than the Dawgs, and that showed in early defensive mistakes and offensive turnovers. WVU, on the other hand, never turned the ball over for four quarters. That's how to win a football game against a more talented opponent, folks. Orange: I only watched the second half of this game last night, but what struck me most was the resiliency of Michael Robinson. He got banged around the entire half and it didn't noticeably affect his play. The second thing I noticed is that JoePa needs to cook up some new offensive running schemes. You can't run a Big Ten style running offense against a Florida school. However, didn't really matter because Penn State's defense did a great job -- Pozlusny is as good as advertised. For those who thought the kickers choking devalued the game, I thought the choking began with Drew Weatherford's intentional grounding/safety. Gotta at least attempt to get outside the tackles there. Rose: Looking forward to tonight's game. Both my ticket connections fell through, so I will be enjoying the game from my patio in Austin, where the high today is in the mid-70's. Gotta go marinate the fajita meat now. Hook 'em.
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