TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Oct 24, 2005 11:36:40 GMT -5
Hawk Harrelson is the worst announcer in the history of baseball. I agree. And think about how bad you have to be to be worse than Joe Morgan, Tim McCarver, Joe Buck, etc...
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Oct 24, 2005 12:58:32 GMT -5
I'm not pinching myself. I don't want to wake up and find that the Sox have turned into mice and pumpkins.
I thought I was going to have heart attacks about ten different times Saturday night. That game was just unbelievably tense throughout.
As for last night, a few comments:
1. While it is true that Dye might have walked (or struck out or homered) on the next pitch, it's just as true that the Sox might have won game 2 against the Angels in extra innings anyway. What is undeniable is that the Sox have been the beneficiaries of an amazing number of close or questionable calls in the playoffs, and have taken advantage of those breaks consistently.
2. When Konerko hit the slam, I went slightly berzerk. The only problem was, I couldn't yell too loudly, because our two year old was asleep on the sofa next to me.
3. Speaking of said two year old, she's been saying "Go White Sox" quite a bit lately. Grandpa Ted (my dad) gets a particular kick out of that.
4. Huge kudos to Phil Garner for sending up Vizcaino in that spot. I was shocked, as I thought for sure he would go to Orlando Palmiero or Lamb.
5. There wasn't a hard hit ball off Jenks in that inning, but that's the way it bounces sometimes.
6. I couldn't believe that the runner on second (Burke? Can't remember) was sent, since that ball wasn't hit deep at all. Podsednik must have a weak arm. A really good throw to the plate would have definitely had the runner.
7. The ending was surreal. Shades of Ozzie Smith and Tom Niederfuer. One really has to wonder about the impact on Lidge's psyche of giving up back to back game winning bombs in the playoffs. Again, just like Niederfuer, who was never the same. Anyone can give up a bomb to Albert Pujols, but Podsednik? How does a guy who hit a grand total of zero home runs during the season hit two in the playoffs?
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 24, 2005 13:34:02 GMT -5
In regards to Jenks, a ball might not have been hit too hard, but he showed a bit of why he hasn't made it until now. He's always had control issues, and last night was no exception. He will walk guys and until he figures that out, I don't expect him to be a top closer. Certain passable, but I think he regresses next year as people learn him. The rest of the pen is very solid, though, so it won't matter too much if he struggles.
As a completely non-partisan fan, I hope the Stros can come back and make this a series.
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Post by showcase on Oct 24, 2005 13:34:03 GMT -5
Oh please - anyone who thinks that Hawk is worse than Morgan, McCarver, Jim Kaat, Joe Buck, or anyone in the broadcast booth for the Cubs doesn't deserve to be taken seriously on this topic. At least Harrellson knows the names of the players and can identify them consistently. If you don't like his antics, take Working the Mute Button 101 at an Adult Learning Annex near you.
The crew that Fox has working the playoffs has been as bad as the umpiring.
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Post by showcase on Oct 24, 2005 13:37:33 GMT -5
I don't expect him to be a top closer. Certain passable, but I think he regresses next year as people learn him. The rest of the pen is very solid, though, so it won't matter too much if he struggles. On the other hand, lets not forget that Jenks was tabbed to fill in for Hermanson. I don't think anyone is projecting Jenks as the Sox's definite closer of the future, just one of many (unfortunately) that could find themselves in that roll next year.
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FormerHoya
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Post by FormerHoya on Oct 24, 2005 14:06:52 GMT -5
Oh please - anyone who thinks that Hawk is worse than Morgan, McCarver, Jim Kaat, Joe Buck, or anyone in the broadcast booth for the Cubs doesn't deserve to be taken seriously on this topic. At least Harrellson knows the names of the players and can identify them consistently. If you don't like his antics, take Working the Mute Button 101 at an Adult Learning Annex near you. The crew that Fox has working the playoffs has been as bad as the umpiring. Hawk is the worst because it isn't about the game with him, it is about Hawk. His homerun call is fine, a little annoying and contrived, but fine; but who has ever heard of a "strikeout call?!?!?!" He gone is as annoying as it is stupid. I haven't even mentioned the long period of silence when the opposing team hits a dinger. Way to pout Hawk. I need to stop typing now or I'll be sick. On a different note, at least some good will come of the White Sox win, hopefully that pest Biggio will never win a WS.
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One
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Post by One on Oct 24, 2005 15:30:46 GMT -5
Showcase, I can only confirm that Hawk knows all of the White Sox players' first names. As for their last names, that is anybody's guess. Formerhoya, I shockingly agree with everything you wrote - must be because it's a White Sox thread.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Oct 24, 2005 15:41:02 GMT -5
Geez, a whole page about bad announcers and no one's mentioned John Sterling? OK, OK. I don't watch enough baseball to know whether Sterling is great, good, bad or awful. But he sure is annoying.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Oct 24, 2005 19:34:06 GMT -5
In regards to Jenks, a ball might not have been hit too hard, but he showed a bit of why he hasn't made it until now. He's always had control issues, and last night was no exception. He will walk guys and until he figures that out, I don't expect him to be a top closer. Certain passable, but I think he regresses next year as people learn him. The rest of the pen is very solid, though, so it won't matter too much if he struggles. As a completely non-partisan fan, I hope the Stros can come back and make this a series. I agree that Jenks has control issues, but that wasn't why the Angels released him. It was because he was a troublemaker and out of control. I would say he's been a pretty good pick-up off the waiver wire. Maybe he'll be able to overcome his control problems over time, or maybe he won't, but we certainly can't expect him to suddenly develop pinpoint control now. It would also be nice if he developed another pitch. I also have to wonder if Hermanson can go at all. His out of nowhere phenomenal performance in the first half contributed mightily to the Sox being where they were. I was hoping that the lengthy layoff he's had would help his back problems, but I guess not. The other thing I'll say about Jenks is, he's already better than Billy Koch, and they didn't even have to trade Keith Foulke to get him.
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Post by showcase on Oct 24, 2005 21:31:21 GMT -5
who has ever heard of a "strikeout call?!?!?!; He gone is as annoying as it is stupid.
I haven't even mentioned the long period of silence when the opposing team hits a dinger. Way to pout Hawk. I need to stop typing now or I'll be sick. Who's heard of a 'strikeout call'? Everyone who's been watching Hawk for the decade or more he's been doing Sox broadcasts. And while I can't point at anyone in particular, I'm pretty sure he's not the first. More to the point, Hawk isn't nearly as "a homer broadcaster" as the clowns on TBS and Comcast who cover the Os. Hawk does a good job of pointing out a good call by the opposing team or players, and a bad call by the Sox. If you don't think so, you've been basing your opinion on the evaluation of other rather than actually listening to a broadcast. All of this is offered as part of a patently silly tangent - there's no consensus on how a game should or shouldn't be called. Every announcer is bound to offend the tender sensibilities of a huge swath of fans because he fails to live up to their 'expectations.' I persist only because it's so laughable to try to designate an announcer as a 'worst offender.' And because I'm a Sox fan that doesn't mind Hawk's style one bit.
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Post by showcase on Oct 24, 2005 21:33:38 GMT -5
Showcase, I can only confirm that Hawk knows all of the White Sox players' first names. As for their last names, that is anybody's guess. Formerhoya, I shockingly agree with everything you wrote - must be because it's a White Sox thread. Ahh, too young to remember Harry Carry.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 24, 2005 22:50:31 GMT -5
Oh please - anyone who thinks that Hawk is worse than Morgan, McCarver, Jim Kaat, Joe Buck, or anyone in the broadcast booth for the Cubs doesn't deserve to be taken seriously on this topic. At least Harrellson knows the names of the players and can identify them consistently. If you don't like his antics, take Working the Mute Button 101 at an Adult Learning Annex near you. The crew that Fox has working the playoffs has been as bad as the umpiring. Homer. Harrelson is awful. Ridiculous homer to the point of being offensive. Every signature call is annoying. Like most players, everything is an act of character. I can't stand him at all.
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Post by showcase on Oct 25, 2005 9:13:00 GMT -5
Ah, all this sounds like the griping of fans whose teams AREN'T in the World Series this year. I never hear anyone complain about Harrelson unless the Sox are doing well.
Silly thing is, there's a lot more to lambast the Hawk about from his brief stint as GM. Yet many of those who constantly trot out their vaunted opinions on How Things Should Be In Baseball never seem to recall that little fiasco, however. If you want to tar the man, start there.
Face it folks: Hawk just does his thing differently then the 'norm,' and has been for a long time. People would probably be kvetching about Bob Yeuker right now if only the Brew Crew were in the playoffs. People around Chicago constantly complained about Skip Carey and Joe Carter, but they complained about Thom Brennamen and Steve Stone, too.
Basically, commentating is too superficially easy a job for people to be able to resist the temptation to complain about aspects of it which do not conform to their liking. However, as one closing note, why the hell would anyone complain about an announcer being 'homer' when he's doing local broadcasts. The same accusation can be made with equal fairness and intensity against the guys on TBS and Comcast Baltimore. You don't like the way Hawk calls regular-season games on WGN or Chicago cable for Chicago audiences well, you'd better be a Sox fan. Otherwise, you lack standing to complain (and possibly a life).
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FormerHoya
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Post by FormerHoya on Oct 25, 2005 9:39:16 GMT -5
Ah, all this sounds like the griping of fans whose teams AREN'T in the World Series this year. I never hear anyone complain about Harrelson unless the Sox are doing well. Silly thing is, there's a lot more to lambast the Hawk about from his brief stint as GM. Yet many of those who constantly trot out their vaunted opinions on How Things Should Be In Baseball never seem to recall that little fiasco, however. If you want to tar the man, start there. Face it folks: Hawk just does his thing differently then the 'norm,' and has been for a long time. People would probably be kvetching about Bob Yeuker right now if only the Brew Crew were in the playoffs. People around Chicago constantly complained about Skip Carey and Joe Carter, but they complained about Thom Brennamen and Steve Stone, too. Basically, commentating is too superficially easy a job for people to be able to resist the temptation to complain about aspects of it which do not conform to their liking. However, as one closing note, why the hell would anyone complain about an announcer being 'homer' when he's doing local broadcasts. The same accusation can be made with equal fairness and intensity against the guys on TBS and Comcast Baltimore. You don't like the way Hawk calls regular-season games on WGN or Chicago cable for Chicago audiences well, you'd better be a Sox fan. Otherwise, you lack standing to complain (and possibly a life). I can only see two ways where this fierce defense would make sense: A) You are channelling the_way with Hawk as Esherick. B) You are an immediate family member lobbying to keep Hawk away from home. "He gone!" means that daddy is at work and you are not the only one who needs to hear his ridiculous catchphrases. Honestly, I don't care that much about Hawk and DJ (in fact back when they kinda hated each other it was pretty fun), but I know real baseball fans, guys who read Baseball Think Factory and understand all of it, who now root against the White Sox simply because of their atrocious announcers. Besides, what are you arguing about this for? Your team is about to win the World Series, you should be celebrating by slapping the wives of Houston players Biggio's wife slapped at White Sox's ballpark Guillen issues apology to Astro, condemns fan By JOSE DE JESUS ORTIZ Chicago White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen issued a public apology on behalf of his organization to Astros second baseman Craig Biggio, whose wife was slapped by a fan in the stands at U.S. Cellular Field. "I feel like it's our fault, and I talked to (Biggio) about it, and he knows we're sorry," Guillen said. "He knows it was something we couldn't control. It wasn't like a fight. (The fan) hit the lady and left." The incident occurred on Sunday night during Game 2 of the 101st World Series at Chicago's ballpark, where several members of the Astros' traveling party were harassed. "He slapped her and ran," Biggio said of the fan who struck his wife, Patty. "She ran after him. My brother-in-law ended up putting him against the wall. That's pretty sorry." Asked if Patty had been hurt, Biggio said his New Jersey-raised wife held her own. "You don't slap a New Jersey girl and get away with it," he said. "That happens sometimes. It's terrible. It's over." Added Guillen: "I wish she would have grabbed something and broken his head. If that happened to my family, it would have been a big problem. ... People should just go to the game and not bother people next to you, or you're not a White Sox fan or a baseball fan. Just enjoy the game. Drink if you want to drink; just respect the people next to you." No criminal complaint was made against the fan, according to Chicago police. Chicago defended Biggio, manager Phil Garner, general manager Tim Purpura, catcher Brad Ausmus and several of the Astros were adamant that a few cowardly acts weren't indicative of the White Sox or Chicago fan base. "The word was that the guy had been gouging her a little bit, pulling her hair and just doing some stupid things, things that are just not necessary," Garner said. "Have your fun. This (World Series) is a great thing for them and a great thing for us. Cheer and be as loud as you want to be and whatever else, but don't do that. "I can't imagine Patty Biggio ever saying anything that would incite anything, either. I just can't imagine that. Even if she had, there's no excuse." Despite the incident, Garner said he heard the Astros' traveling party had mostly positive experiences with the fans. Nonetheless, Guillen did not hide his disgust at the treatment Patty Biggio received. "On behalf of the White Sox organization, I just don't think we could control that," Guillen said. "But I think the family is a big part of my life. I think especially the kids. And when that happened in the ballpark, you feel you need to be supportive. "When you're a man and you hit a lady, no matter whose wife it is or whose sister it is, you respect them. But it's something that's tough to control. It happened so quick." More harassment Although Patty Biggio was the only Astros wife who was slapped Sunday, she wasn't the only member of the traveling party who was harassed. Ausmus said his wife, Liz, endured some vulgar taunts and a few vulgar hand gestures throughout the night. "Some of the treatment that the Astros families received at U.S. Cellular Field was a huge black eye for the city of Chicago," Ausmus said. "Now, I understand that's not indicative of all the people in the Chicago area, because I have friends and relatives there. "I know the people of Chicago are overwhelmingly good people. But if I was from Chicago, I'd be embarrassed by the way the Astros' families were treated by the White Sox fans. My wife didn't get hit or anything, but people flipped her off and were screaming at her." The attendance at U.S. Cellular Field was announced as 41,432 for Game 2, and the crowd was obviously overwhelmingly in support of the White Sox. With that in mind, Ausmus said there was little the Astros' family members could do in response. "You don't want to get caught in a situation where you're inflaming the masses," Ausmus said. "So I think as an Astros fan at a visiting park, you pretty much have to swallow it." 'Bring him to me' Maybe so, but Guillen insinuated that he would have definitely defended anybody in the Astros' traveling party. "I know the security in Chicago is doing a great job," Guillen said. "And when something happens so quick, you can't blame anybody. And the guy that did it, he should be brought to Biggio, and he's the one that can hopefully get him back. "I told the police, 'Don't put him in jail. Bring him to me in the dugout.' But hopefully, that won't happen again." Shortstop Adam Everett heard a little bit about the incident, but he knew more than enough to form his opinion. "That's real weak," he said. "That's bad. I don't care where you're at, to hit a woman is not good."
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Oct 25, 2005 15:27:12 GMT -5
Basically, commentating is too superficially easy a job for people to be able to resist the temptation to complain about aspects of it which do not conform to their liking. However, as one closing note, why the hell would anyone complain about an announcer being 'homer' when he's doing local broadcasts. The same accusation can be made with equal fairness and intensity against the guys on TBS and Comcast Baltimore. You don't like the way Hawk calls regular-season games on WGN or Chicago cable for Chicago audiences well, you'd better be a Sox fan. Otherwise, you lack standing to complain (and possibly a life). I watch far more O's and Braves games, rooting against those teams, than I do White Sox games and yet I am much more nauseated listening to Hawk than anyone on Comcast or TBS. As a Red Sox fan, I find only Michael Kay, Jeff Brantley, Chris Berman, Rick Sutcliffe, Rob Dibble, Joe Morgan, Tim McCarver, and Joe Buck to be on his level for insufferability, and at that point I really hate to choose. They each are terrible in their own special way.
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Post by showcase on Oct 25, 2005 16:20:01 GMT -5
] Besides, what are you arguing about this for?Putting aside the obvious ("And your reasons are?"), I persist only as a tireless opponent of the patent ridiculousness exhibited by individuals who define themselves as "real" baseball fans (because they " read Baseball Think Factory and understand all of it"?) and thus feel imbued with some special authority to pontificate on who is THE Worst Announcer of All Time. You, SFHoya, and others are obviously entitled to the grossly hyperbolic opinion that "Harrelson is the worst announcer in the history of baseball." But if you don't want someone to probe the absurdity of the statement, don't endorse it (much less attempt to defend it repeatedly). Separately, the fact that the very savants you cite in defense " now root against the White Sox simply because of their atrocious announcers" suggests a lot more about their lack of life/perspective than it does about the validity of the anti-Hawk stance, my friend. In closing, if you were going to offer a really informed opinion on why Hawk sux, his "He Gone!" call shouldn't have been the focus of your anti-Hawk beefing - the now-retired "GAS!"/"he'll grab some bench!" invocations would have provided much more support for the accusation of homerism. An accusation which, given that he's announcing for a ChiSox broadcast, seems pretty stupid, but to each his own. Cheers!
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 25, 2005 16:29:24 GMT -5
Ah, all this sounds like the griping of fans whose teams AREN'T in the World Series this year. I never hear anyone complain about Harrelson unless the Sox are doing well. Silly thing is, there's a lot more to lambast the Hawk about from his brief stint as GM. Yet many of those who constantly trot out their vaunted opinions on How Things Should Be In Baseball never seem to recall that little fiasco, however. If you want to tar the man, start there. Face it folks: Hawk just does his thing differently then the 'norm,' and has been for a long time. People would probably be kvetching about Bob Yeuker right now if only the Brew Crew were in the playoffs. People around Chicago constantly complained about Skip Carey and Joe Carter, but they complained about Thom Brennamen and Steve Stone, too. Basically, commentating is too superficially easy a job for people to be able to resist the temptation to complain about aspects of it which do not conform to their liking. However, as one closing note, why the hell would anyone complain about an announcer being 'homer' when he's doing local broadcasts. The same accusation can be made with equal fairness and intensity against the guys on TBS and Comcast Baltimore. You don't like the way Hawk calls regular-season games on WGN or Chicago cable for Chicago audiences well, you'd better be a Sox fan. Otherwise, you lack standing to complain (and possibly a life). For the record, once Jerry Coleman started going senile, I've thought most of our (Padres) announcers range from mediocre (Matt Vasgersian) to slightly annoying (Ted Leitner, Mark Grant) to gawdawful (Tim Flannery). Coleman's a HOF, but he's done. Regardless, I like Uecker, I liked Steve Stone, I've always hated Hawk, and I hate "Homers" even when they root for my team. I like the classic style of announcer, personally, and they are going the way of the dodo. I love Vin Scully. I hate the Dodgers, but Vin Scully is fantastic. The Giants announcers are not bad at all. Bill King (A's) was fantastic, though he played the homer a bit. Jon Miller is great. I though Al Leiter did a fantastic job last year. Joe Morgan is fantastic announcing a game and detailing the little things, but he has an annoying tendency to contradict himself. Tim McCarver is not so bad when he a) isn't announcing a NY team and b) isn't just talking to talk. Buck the younger is awful. The point of all this is what team I like has nothing to do with it. Some people are a pleasure to listen to, and some aren't. Hawk is gratingly awful. I love baseball, but he ruins it for me. As for the weird idea you have that there's no argument for Hawk as awful, find me a play by play guy who is worse. Homerism is unprofessional, he has annoying catchphrases, and he thinks he is bigger than the game. I can't think of anything that is worse than that.
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Post by BurleithBeast on Oct 25, 2005 17:06:10 GMT -5
Boy. People do luuuuuuv to hate the Hawk. Showcase, I'm with you on how misguided it is to criticize a local announcer for being a homer. He's on the team's payroll, for chrissakes--why should you expect him to feign some sort of journalistic disinterest? Yes, I feel bad for what happened to Stoney, and the Vin Scully model is admirable, don't get me wrong--hats off to you O dean of baseball announcers who will not travel east of the Rockies! But Sox fans by and large love the guy--is his stuff maudlin, shallow, and often grating? Sure, but why begrudge fans their guy? And have you ever tried to pep up twenty consecutive seasons of 162 yearly broadcasts of the same usually unspectacular ballteam? Hawk and his stupid calls (which, it should be said, he rotates fairly often) are one of the few Sox fixtures left--about the only thing close is Jerry Reinsdorf's ownership, Frank Thomas' injuries, and Nancy Faust's organ playing--and you can't hear that too well on TV. And if Sox fans want to listen to consummate professionals, they mute the TV and listen to Rooney and Farmer's outstanding radio broadcast. And don't forget who you're talking about here! dynamic.si.cnn.com/si_online/covers/issues/1968/0902.html
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Post by showcase on Oct 25, 2005 19:51:59 GMT -5
As for the weird idea you have that there's no argument for Hawk as awful, find me a play by play guy who is worse. Homerism is unprofessional, he has annoying catchphrases, and he thinks he is bigger than the game. I can't think of anything that is worse than that.
SFHoya - have I been arguing that Hawk is unfairly labeled as the "worst announcer in the history of baseball," or that one cannot dislike him as an announcer? I'll give you a steer in the right direction: I readily conceded that the guy's a homer announcer and uses annoying catchphrases. Have to agree with Burleith: Rooney and Farmer are better 'straight' announcers. Maybe you want to get WMAQ (or whomever carries the Sox radiocasts these days) over the web next time you take in a regular season ChiSox game. Meanwhile, Houston strikes first. Ugh, I think I'm gonna be sick like SFHoya watching the Sox on WGN...
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Post by showcase on Oct 26, 2005 0:56:15 GMT -5
Let see: at the 5 hr mark tonight, I just heard...
"In the time it took to play this game, you could have flown from Baltimore to Iceland."
Look, I know long games are tough on everyone, but Hawk Harrelson as the worst announcer in baseball history? Puh-lease.
Thank GOD Blum as put the Sox on top. I'm sure Damaso will make things very exciting in the bottom of the 14th, but at least there's now light at the end of the tunnel...
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