Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2006 13:31:42 GMT -5
don't know why the concept is causing you and others issues...its not the intent...but the effect. So, should I NOT wear a shirt that says "Syracuse Sucks!" when I go to a road game? The intent would be to support my team, but the effect would be to offend Syracuse fans...
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PhillyHoya
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Post by PhillyHoya on Oct 17, 2006 13:31:54 GMT -5
are you denying homeboy has been used as a pejorative for black guys? are you refusing to accept jt3 is an intelligent, middle aged black guy who is intelligent and at least deserves the respect of any other authority figure on that campus? if not, what's your point? would you call jt3 homeboy to his face...no, b/c at some level you would deem it disrespectful. how does the phrase on a shirt mitigate that? don't know why the concept is causing you and others issues...its not the intent...but the effect. In bringing up Johnny Damon, how was I in any way being racist towards JTIII? I haven't said a single thing about the JTIII shirt nor do I intend to. I'm not denying usage of the term "homeboy" and frankly, I could barely bring myself to speak to JTIII let alone say anything like that. I was just wondering how other imitation homeboy shirts that do not have African Americans fit into your theory. That's all. Don't call me a racist for asking a related question.
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Post by JohnJacquesLayup on Oct 17, 2006 13:32:28 GMT -5
It's subject to interpretation and context, but I don't think the shirts are as blatantly racist as ron asserts. The fact that the shirt could be interpreted, within reason, the way ron has should be reason enough to disapprove them though.
I hope, and honestly believe, the creator isn't stating that JTIII is his homeboy because he is a black male. JTIII is his homeboy because of his iconic stature (already) at the university. As the successful leader of the most visible element of the school, JTIII is a person students want to identify with. I think the term "homeboy" was used not because of JTIII's race, but because "JTIII is a person I deeply respect" or "JTIII is a very good basketball coach" or "JTIII is cool in my opinion" or "I wish I was friends with JTIII" don't really flow that well. That and the whole "Jesus is my homeboy" shirt craze from a few years ago.
But while I don't feel the shirt is racist, disrespectful, or suggestive, the fact that many people can fairly deduce that from the shirt is a good enough reason for me to not support it. But Jesus is still my homeboy, no matter what anyone says.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Oct 17, 2006 13:32:35 GMT -5
I really don't see the problem with these shirts. Especially since JTIII bought one himself. They have versions of shirts all over the place starting with The JEsus one's they have the Damon ones, I believe they also made one for Nat burton. I haven't heard complaints about these shirts. They just exprese support of the person on the shirt. I don't see the phrase homboy to be a negative thing. I wouldn't use that phrase to JTIII's face because i don't actually have a close enough reltationship where that would be appropriate.
That being siad they should not be worn at game because of their color but ehy're a great shirt to wear abotu campus or outside of school. I like the father son and hoya spirit on the back as well.
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GUHoya07
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Post by GUHoya07 on Oct 17, 2006 13:33:18 GMT -5
I really don't see the problem with these shirts. Especially since JTIII bought one himself. They have versions of shirts all over the place starting with The JEsus one's they have the Damon ones, I believe they also made one for Nat burton. I haven't heard complaints about these shirts. They just exprese support of the person on the shirt. I don't see the phrase homboy to be a negative thing. I wouldn't use that phrase to JTIII's face because i don't actually have a close enough reltationship where that would be appropriate. That being siad they should not be worn at game because of their color but ehy're a great shirt to wear abotu campus or outside of school. I like the father son and hoya spirit on the back as well. they being FLHoya
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PhillyHoya
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Post by PhillyHoya on Oct 17, 2006 13:34:24 GMT -5
I believe they also made one for Nat burton. Just the one ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) FLHoya's got me to thank for that one.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Oct 17, 2006 13:35:36 GMT -5
You idiots. It's in fun. JT3 liked the shirts. It's not racist and if you think it is, get your bloody headchecked you disgustingly PC-devoted imbeciles. Friggin unbelieveable. The only thing I'd change is the back and that's only because T. Crawford said he didn't like it and well, he's captain and that makes him pretty damn important IMHO. Admin, please don't delete this. EDIT: people wouldn't call JT2/3 homeboys to their faces because their Coach Thompsons and the best things to happen to the campus. In real life, I'd probably trip over myself and call him "Mr-Sir-Coach Thompson" in a high cracking prepubescent voice. However, the shirt is directed at STUDENTS and THEIR culture and the joking, but endearing term "homeboy" is ONLY meant in praise. If you don't like that culture, or more likely, don't understand it, stop complaining about it and "turn that proverbial radio dial." wow!
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JimmyHoya
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Post by JimmyHoya on Oct 17, 2006 13:40:07 GMT -5
I do not think you can argue that this "feeds a group stereotype" when the cultural context makes clear this is not meant to denigrate African Americans. But thats the thing, it DOES denigrate. I don't care what cultural context intent it is. It denigrates them when they are referred to in that way. You can spin it all you want, but it does. Or, by constantly making a big deal out of dumbsh*t things like this, you further ingrate into society fake racism and unnecessary tension because you won't allow cultures to cross skin color lines. For chrissakes, this has NOTHING to do with racism, but you are needlessly interjecting it into the discussion because of your own inability to accept that maybe another person besides an african-america might appreciate that phrase and might even appreciate it for different reasons than you traditionally would.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Oct 17, 2006 13:42:15 GMT -5
But thats the thing, it DOES denigrate. I don't care what cultural context intent it is. It denigrates them when they are referred to in that way. You can spin it all you want, but it does. Or, by constantly making a big deal out of dumbsh*t things like this, you further ingrate into society fake racism and unnecessary tension because you won't allow cultures to cross skin color lines. For chrissakes, this has NOTHING to do with racism, but you are needlessly interjecting it into the discussion because of your own inability to accept that maybe another person besides an african-america might appreciate that phrase and might even appreciate it for different reasons than you traditionally would. again, just wow!
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YB
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Post by YB on Oct 17, 2006 13:43:55 GMT -5
While the front part of the shirts didn't really do a lot for me- not for racism reasons, just the design didn't look clean to me- but I loved the back.
I liked the spirit though, that's what it's all about!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2006 13:46:11 GMT -5
so cam, your position is to embrace the speculative assumption jt3 got one of the shirts, as to butress your preconcieved right to say and do anything you want. that last entitlement says alot. instead of looking at your beliefes critically, it is more important to exercise your desire to wear a phrase some find pejorative, and for good reason. if you feel so strongly about that, call he and his father "homeboy". but you wouldn't, b/c at the core you know its disrespecful. wow. free speech does not just end with the individual who utters something offensive. those offended have a right to confront and combat it. its a double edged sword. My point was simply that there is one person at whom this is targeted, and if (IF) he is not offended (i.e. IF he indeed got a shirt to give to his father), you're riding a pretty high horse if you're offended on his behalf.
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doublehoya
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Post by doublehoya on Oct 17, 2006 13:47:52 GMT -5
No disrespect, Ron, but I think this is a tempest in a teapot.
Next time I see JTIII (or Pops) I will ask them if they think the shirt is racist, or whether they think being called "homeboy" is racist. If you don't believe I will do it, you clearly don't know me.
Terp football fans are currently wearing "Haynos is my Homeboy" t-shirts to show support for their (white) TE. Is that racist?
I try to be pretty sensitive to race issues, but I don't see this as a race issue. "Homeboy" is not being used in a pejorative manner, and I don't think it is an inherently racist term.
As for whether this white guy uses the term "homeboy" . . . well my father just called me "homeboy" today, and he's 67 -- it is a term of endearment -- admittedly co-opted from African-American culture, but pretty mainstream nowadays.
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PhillyHoya
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Post by PhillyHoya on Oct 17, 2006 13:49:51 GMT -5
Terp football fans are currently wearing "Haynos is my Homeboy" t-shirts to show support for their (white) TE. Is that racist? That's what I was implying when I asked about the Damon shirts.
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DrumsGoBang
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Post by DrumsGoBang on Oct 17, 2006 13:51:02 GMT -5
I guess I'm never going to sell my t-shirts that say "Guns don't kill people, dangerous minorities do"
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ron
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Post by ron on Oct 17, 2006 13:52:12 GMT -5
the genisis of those shirts was in fact the familar at best moniker for black males, and at it's worst a derrogatory word to characterize black guys. that's the true cultural foundation of homeboy, not the religious group's usage...they co-opted the lesser characterization to familarize youth to the Christian faith. there are those who may object, but that's not my issue presently. the religous group was attempting to create a one on one relationship with Jesus, in the eyes of youth.
the litmus test, as i see it, is, would it be disrespectful to call jt3 homeboy, to his face? . i think the answer is a resounding yes. being an older guy, i think you would think it disrespectful too. so why wear it on a tee shirt?
personally, young or old, i think it would be disrespectful to wear the shirt..again, if you wouldn't salute him as homeboy, why subtly do so, on a tee shirt.
in terms of paterno, i think you are comparing apples and oranges. being italian american, if there was a tee shirt that played on a term that at times was used in a negative connatation for italian guys...it wouldn't be acceptable. therein lies the rub.
appreciate your response though.
jimmy hoya's i didn't. jimmy if you cant respond in a more intelligent, substantive, and measured manner...shut up when grown folks are talking.
kc...why am i throwing out a race card, b/c i found the tee shirt offensive? i don't benefit from it...which i thought was a requisite for "the race card". am i supposed to not say something, to appease others? you would think individuals would want to know when they unwittingly said something problematic, that they be informed.
does that trounce upon a preconceived entitlement to do and say what you want, at all costs?
your response kc, is sadly to be expected.
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doublehoya
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Post by doublehoya on Oct 17, 2006 14:00:58 GMT -5
in terms of paterno, i think you are comparing apples and oranges. being italian american, if there was a tee shirt that played on a term that at times was used in a negative connatation for italian guys...it wouldn't be acceptable. therein lies the rub. Would "Paterno is my Pisan (sp.)" be racist (or, more accurately, anti-Italian)? I know I am spelling it wrong, but the comparison is close, I think -- it is a term of endearment, that could also be used in a derogatory manner. This is the problem with language -- the same word can be used to endear or hurt, depending on context and intent. I think if we had a white coach that everyone loved as much as we love JTIII, some enterprising soul would make a "[White guy we love] is my Homeboy" shirt. Maybe we are just going around and around here Ron, but I liked the shirt, and I didn't think for a second that it was racist. Everyone should step back for a second and look at this conversation, and then consider the possiblilty that the same could be had on a Terp board -- this is why I love Georgetown!
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mrsixer123
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Post by mrsixer123 on Oct 17, 2006 14:02:22 GMT -5
as a black man, i did cringe when i first read about the shirts. i know the students do not mean harm, but a black man seeing a white teen with a tshirt that has a picture of a black man on it and the words "homeboy" is bound to turn a few heads at the verizon center.
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ron
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Post by ron on Oct 17, 2006 14:02:23 GMT -5
your dad called you homeboy, b/c he was being familar with you. would you call gtown's president homeboy? no. why not...b/c there is a barrier you don't cross out of respect.
the same respect should be afforded jt3.
its not your intent, but the effect.
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DrumsGoBang
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Post by DrumsGoBang on Oct 17, 2006 14:04:16 GMT -5
Ahhhhhh a cartoonish figure of JTIII is going to cause riots in the middle east!!!!!!
In other news the word, "homeboy" now replaces all other curse words listed by the FCC.
That homeboy was homeboying homeboy yo!
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PhillyHoya
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Post by PhillyHoya on Oct 17, 2006 14:04:57 GMT -5
would you call gtown's president homeboy? There's a lot of things I'd call him but homeboy doesn't come close.
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