Boz
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Post by Boz on Jul 26, 2007 14:02:11 GMT -5
You live in a fantasy world if you think Roy Hibbert gets or needs support from this silly message board. The fact is that he is supposed to be "the man" and he fouled out. If the game is being called tight, then he needs to adjust. You can't do much good for your team if you are limited to 14 minutes. I love Roy and think he is a fantastic player as evidenced by his numbers in 14 minutes. But if he can't control his fouls, his Pan Am and Hoyas teams will suffer as a result. The great centers find a way to stay in the game. Period. YEAH. Like Kareem and George Mikan. (NBA record holders for most career fouls and most seasons leading the league in fouls, respectively.) I don't think anyone would get on your case for pointing out that Roy had a bad game, or needs to play better. But guess what? Roy may not need to come to this board for support, but he doesn't need to come to it for coaching tips either. I'll bet he knows he has to play better, just a hunch. The fact that you're saying he should be "embarrassed," just for one sub-par game - especially seeing as how it's the FIRST game, I think that's what everyone is going to jump on you for. (well, that and making said assumptions after not having seen the actual game itself). Not sure if you care all that much. But maybe not so much cliff jumping and a little more measured reaction might keep everyone from jumping down your throat.
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Jul 26, 2007 14:15:44 GMT -5
You didn't see the game. And there is not much written about it. So you I would bet you don't have any idea as to how the fouls occurred, whether the game was called real tight, whether Roy was jobbed, what kind of effort he put in, whether he received any support from his teammates, etc. etc. But you say that Roy should be embarrassed, nonetheless. Way to support a fellow Hoya in his first experience in international ball. Love it. You live in a fantasy world if you think Roy Hibbert gets or needs support from this silly message board. The fact is that he is supposed to be "the man" and he fouled out. If the game is being called tight, then he needs to adjust. You can't do much good for your team if you are limited to 14 minutes. I love Roy and think he is a fantastic player as evidenced by his numbers in 14 minutes. But if he can't control his fouls, his Pan Am and Hoyas teams will suffer as a result. The great centers find a way to stay in the game. Period. I think Boz pretty much addressed your inanity. It's not so much that Roy needs or cares what we say here on this silly message board. It is the knee-jerk reaction bad-mouthing a young Hoya in his first international game without having much info regarding what transpired. But, hey, if it makes you feel relevant and like some sort of beacon of objectivity to engage in that sort of thing, have at it.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jul 26, 2007 14:29:30 GMT -5
Then consider that none of the players have any international expereince and that they are young college players (except for Dorsey) playing older men. Even worse the other teams have palyers who ahve played with each other for years while the USA team has only been together for less than two weeks and the final 12 players chosen for the team have only practiced for about a week. Its aburd. First, players on all teams may have had prior international experiences when they were younger (U-19 teams, etc...), but I cannot say for sure. Granted, this might be the first time that most of the USA players see the international style. Granted, the USA players are younger than most of the competition, but Puerto Rico's average age is around 24-25. That's not much of a difference when you consider that USA players must be 19 years (Scottie) to 21 (the seniors on the team). Only one player on the PR team is on an NBA roster (Barea @ Dallas). He's 23 and joined the team for the last 33 games of last season. The starting center is 22 and on the Wizards' development roster (went from hs to NBA). PR's team at the PanAms is not even PR's senior team, which will get together next month for the Olympic qualifiers or World Championship qualifiers. The best players in Rio will get invited to those tryouts. Second, where do you get that other teams have been together for years? The PR team has been together for two weeks too. I cannot speak for the other teams. The final 12 players for PR didn't get to play for a week because they were traveling to Rio from different places. Barea joined the team there from the NBA summer camp. He's trying to earn a spot with Dallas. Plus, the USA players are familiar with each other from AAU ball through college. Maybe what you mean is that the player pool in other countries is smaller than the USA's, therefore those players know each other more? If that's what you mean, then someone will answer you with the more players in the pool, the more talent you will have to choose from. At the end of the day, it says USA across the chest and that was the team chosen and sent to compete. BTW, a couple of years ago, after not winning gold with college players, the USA sent second-tier NBA players, but not the Dream Team. Same result, they did not win gold. What is the key to solving the USA's lack of recent international success? Is it the coaching? Is it the lack of familiarity? Is it trying to play individually instead of collectively? I don't know. That said, GO ROY!!!
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jul 26, 2007 14:30:24 GMT -5
Now Scottie Reynolds, on the other hand?
Yeah, that dude should be embarrassed!
(Also because he's no longer 12, but still lets people refer to him as "Scottie." No offense, Mr. Pippen.)
;D
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Jul 26, 2007 14:46:40 GMT -5
Filo, I'll feel free to criticize the performance of Hoyas and US national team players as much I'd like since this is a discussion board about basketball. Roy has always been a strong character guy who criticizes his own poor performances publicly as well, so I just don't see the problem with my original post. He should be proud of all of his accomplishments and his growth as a player, but he and the rest of the team should be embarrassed that they lost to a team like Uruguay just like the NBA players should be embarrassed by their recent performances internationally.
You may like to think that the basketball players are innocent little choir boys in need of protection from posters like you (I guess that's what makes you feel relevant), but I'm going to go out on a limb and say they don't view themselves that way. If that's not politically correct enough for you, too bad.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jul 26, 2007 14:51:53 GMT -5
Only one player on the PR team is on an NBA roster (Barea @ Dallas). He's 23 and joined the team for the last 33 games of last season. The starting center is 22 and on the Wizards' development roster (went from hs to NBA). PR's team at the PanAms is not even PR's senior team, which will get together next month for the Olympic qualifiers or World Championship qualifiers. The best players in Rio will get invited to those tryouts. Second, where do you get that other teams have been together for years? The PR team has been together for two weeks too. I cannot speak for the other teams. The final 12 players for PR didn't get to play for a week because they were traveling to Rio from different places. Barea joined the team there from the NBA summer camp. He's trying to earn a spot with Dallas. Plus, the USA players are familiar with each other from AAU ball through college. I read that most if not all the teams had players that had played together for their countries in an international event. It may not be every player on the team but if at least a handful had suited up and played with one another before that's a huge advantage for the international teams. Secondly if one group of players averages to about 26 in age and the other group averages out to 29 that's not all that big of a deal. The physical development and physial maturation of the two groups is about the same. But if one group avearges to around 20 or 21 and the other comes to about 25 or 26, yes, it is an advantage because the 20 and 21 year old guys are still going through a form of physical development and maturity that can't be said for most who are somewhere between 25 and 26. Jay Wright himself warned his players repeatedly ahead of times that they will have to raise their play because they will be playing "men" in Brazil. Its clear that he realizes there is a physical advantage for guys in their mid to late twenties compared to guys in their late teens to early twenties. Last of all with the world having caught up a bit the key to success is familiarity. The 2004 Olympics team failed because the 2003 qualifying team that had been put together and dominated FIBA never stuck together the following summer. Even though the players had made a promise to play in 2003 and then return for the 2004 Olympics, only AI and Duncan actually kept that promises. The other ten players for 2004 were put together at the last minute and were too young. I expect 2008 to be far different for Team USA because a few key guys from 2004 will play again in 2008 and, most importantly, most of the players who played for the 2006 Games and the upcoming 2007 FIBA will be around too for the 2008 Olympics. That will lead to a sense of familiarity that the Americans have never had before.
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Hoya50
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Post by Hoya50 on Jul 26, 2007 15:03:07 GMT -5
"...reach down between my legs and ease the seat back..."
i think roy's footprint is larger than panama. c'mon roy, stomp the canalers!!!!!
my mini van will be rockin with some old school vh on the way home tonight. yeah boy!
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jul 26, 2007 15:23:18 GMT -5
MCI, I hope you're right about upcoming international tournaments. It's still strange to me to see Argentina or Serbia winning the big tournaments and dominating the USA "Dream" Teams.
What about coaching? Following your "familiarity" line, which I agree is an integral part of success and is a problem for PR too, I would think that a specific coaching philosophy has to be adopted and followed. For example, you cannot have Coach K asking for one thing, then Wright asking for something else, and new players having to learn something new in two weeks. There has to be some sort of continuity in that regard so that players know what to expect before coming to camp and only players who fit the system are chosen. Maybe what needs to happen is for USA Basketball to hire a national coach, just like in soccer. I'm not sure it's possible, but the coaching roulette is not working.
Btw, I think Kobe and the rest participated in a recent U.S. camp and scrimmage.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Jul 26, 2007 15:26:43 GMT -5
I'd like to think we would respect every person's opinion, even those we disagree with. Guess I'm wrong.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jul 26, 2007 16:15:48 GMT -5
On to the Games...
After today's wins, Puerto Rico and Brazil advanced to the semis from Group A and will play for the group's 1st place tomorrow.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jul 26, 2007 16:20:24 GMT -5
What about coaching? Following your "familiarity" line, which I agree is an integral part of success and is a problem for PR too, I would think that a specific coaching philosophy has to be adopted and followed. For example, you cannot have Coach K asking for one thing, then Wright asking for something else, and new players having to learn something new in two weeks. There has to be some sort of continuity in that regard so that players know what to expect before coming to camp and only players who fit the system are chosen. Maybe what needs to happen is for USA Basketball to hire a national coach, just like in soccer. I'm not sure it's possible, but the coaching roulette is not working. . I don't see a problem because Wright is not going to coach any of the players in the current three-summer commitment. The coach stays the same during the entire run. I don't think you need a national coach of 20 to be running the show for 20 years or anything.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jul 26, 2007 16:24:52 GMT -5
I didn't know there was a commitment already in place. Who's the A team's coach?
In soccer, it's basically a four-year run, depending on your success.
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Post by wildhoya on Jul 26, 2007 17:39:58 GMT -5
USA v. Panama broadcast is beginning on espn.deportes.com right now 6:44 EDT
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Locker
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Post by Locker on Jul 26, 2007 18:01:19 GMT -5
Strong play by Roy in the first quarter. U.S. is up 21-15. Roy's got at least 4 points, a couple of boards, and a sweet dish to D.J. White for a three point play. Most importantly, no fouls.
Neitzel is hot early. Kyle Weaver is showing me nothing at this point.
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Locker
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by Locker on Jul 26, 2007 18:16:36 GMT -5
Two quick garbage fouls calls against Roy midway through the second quarter. Ugh. Not his fault, at all.
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CO_Hoya
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Post by CO_Hoya on Jul 26, 2007 18:27:30 GMT -5
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HoyaNyr320
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Post by HoyaNyr320 on Jul 26, 2007 18:34:02 GMT -5
That second foul, committed setting a pick, could have gone either way. However, Roy easily could have avoided that one by setting his feet. He also missed two free throws in a row (although the second one might have been interfered with while above the cylinder). This all being said, USA is doing a much better job on defense with Roy in the game. They are struggling with Panama's interior players without him.
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SFOHoya
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Post by SFOHoya on Jul 26, 2007 18:48:46 GMT -5
gracias for the link. Why does Roy not touch the ball on every single possession?
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jul 26, 2007 18:49:36 GMT -5
Great, great link.
prhoya, the coach for the national team is Coach K. He was assigned to coach the senior national team in 2006, 2007 and 2008.
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HoyaNyr320
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Post by HoyaNyr320 on Jul 26, 2007 18:50:13 GMT -5
A nice FG for Big Roy. Although the rest of the team is falling apart right now. Roy is flashing behind the 3-pt. line at the top of the key and Neitzel won't pass to him- almost telling the big fella "I'm not giving you the ball up there."
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