OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 23, 2010 8:33:33 GMT -5
I have to revise my outlook a bit because I always felt depth issues were sort of a red herring with this team --- we had a very talented core in Wright, Freeman and Monroe, a nice starting 5, and we wouldn't need much from our bench to be an elite team. The problem is that when one of our big 3 is struggling, we don't have anyone to fill the void and that can mean falling behind big in a hurry. Sometimes we can come back, sometimes we can't, but that's who we are and I think that means a pretty rocky and uneven road ahead unless the 3 can play consistently well and/or our bench starts providing additional help which aint happening. Actually Clark can take up the slack sometimes if his 3pt shot is falling, but if it is not then he has not shown that he can consistently score in other ways (finishing drives and cuts to basket). Hollis is at least a year away from being a scoring option if the big 3 are not all clicking. Sothe Hoyas fate comes down to their defense. If their defense is on, then they can survive if one of the 3 is having an off game and they get 8-10 pts from Clark.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 22, 2010 0:18:32 GMT -5
This is only a question and not a knock, but has JT3 in his tenure here ever gone with more than a 7-8 man rotation? And to those familiar with his teams at Princeton, did he employ a rotation there of more than 7-8?
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 22, 2010 0:09:29 GMT -5
is it me or am i the only one that feels very optimistic as a result of yesterdays game? consider, the 2 fouls on monroe (and i think vaughn) really put us on our backs. thats when cuse pushed ahead. once monroe got back in the 2nd half we dominated. i mean these guys are coming together as a team which is much more important in the long-run than the outcome of one game. the next game at louisville will be very telling. No you are not alone in feeling a lot better about the Hoyas chances in the NCAA. They have now proven that they can play with any team and any offense or defense that may be thrown their way in the NCAA tournament. And if not for missed freethrows and a missed 3pt shot they would have shown that they could beat those teams as well. Not too many teams will have faced the Princeton Offense so the Hoyas should have the advantage like Big Joghn's Hoyas of the 80's when teams had not seen the blanket pressing defense and gang rebounding of the Hoyas. Now the team just needs to play a full 40 minutes against Mr. (white suit) Pitino and gang. A win here will give the Hoyas 2 shots at home for that magical 10th win in conference.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 21, 2010 18:24:39 GMT -5
Imagine if this team had Rivers and Macklin...that is the quality, experienced depth we are lacking. Neither is a world beater and both have significant holes in their game, but so do the 2 frosh we're currently relying on for the minimal depth we have (Thompson - no defense, Bennimon - no offense). Add Macklin and Rivers to this squad and we're 7 deep with guys that can play. Right now, we're 5 1/2 deep (I still have confidence in Hollis, though he's been more limited than I expected as a freshman). A 5 1/2 deep team just isn't going to go too far in a loaded Big East. We really need the brackets to break our way to have a good shot at the Sweet 16, which isn't something you should say about a team with 3 McDonald's All Americans on it, including the #1 recruit in the country for his class. If Macklin does not transfer then we are not looking for a big man and Vaughn is not offered transfer, therefore the only experienced person we are missing is Rivers slot, because I think this year Vaughn has given us more than Macklin would have. I don't see how anyone can call Benimon a mistake, JT3 had to find a big body anywhere he could when we lost out on the 2 PF recruits(I will not call there names to not risk a 50 page post).
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 20, 2010 18:10:41 GMT -5
In 1984-85 season Georgetown played 2 nationally ranked teams 3 times, St Johns(2-1) and Villanova(2-1). Point being its tough to beat a nationally ranked team 3 times in a single season. I hope Hoyas are in different bracket than Syracuse in BET with Hoyas meeting them in the final game of NCAA tournament where the Hoyas pull off the upset and beat the no.1 ranked Cuse in their 3rd and final meeting of the tear.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 20, 2010 9:22:16 GMT -5
good points in this thread re: lack of big 3's at the end of games this year. however, if we are talking about the cuse game, the real answer is MONROE getting fed the ball for the last shot. we had already fouled out onuaku and jackson and it was monroe vs dash riley down low. monroe had beasted him on the previous 3 posessions, yet we decide to run the offense instead of making it a point to go with the hot hand and good matchup I agree with you here, but to be fair to JT3, the initial out of bounds play was designed to get the ball to Monroe sliding to basket in front of the rookie Riley, but another defensive player deflected it out of bounds., Also Monroe was playing the center position instead of the big forward position so that he would be matched with Riley. Syracuse knew that the Hoyas would be trying to get the ball to Monroe so the zone stayed close to him. I am not knocking the young man but Monroe has to carve out a position and hold it in order for the team to get the ball to him. Often times for lack of strength or whatever he does not lock his defender on his back for any given length of time. I don't often agree with Vital, but he said Monroe has to "demand" the ball in that situation. Thats different from flashing across lane continuously for 2 seconds at a time. If you contrast the end of the Louisville/ND game the other night with the end of this game, you see the tale of the two centers. Louisville players were told to get the ball to Samuels each time down the court and they did and he was fouled each time and he delivered from the freethrow line each time. The difference is Samuels carries about 30 more pounds than Monroe and is wider so its easier to lock his man on his butt and demand the ball. Another key difference is Samuals did not miss a freethrow down the stretch, Monroe missed 5 of 6 crucial freethrows at the end. Again Vital noted this was critical because when you are trying to come back in game like this your "go to " guy has to convert the free throws.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 20, 2010 1:09:28 GMT -5
Did Sapp hit one against Cuse last year at Verizon or was that two years ago? And I 10,000% agree with you on Austin being out clutch late-game shooter, and the one who never takes the shot. I don't get it, but we need to start putting him in the positions we used to put Wallace in to his that big money shot. You would think so, but JT3 believes in this system and wants the players to believe in it also, therefore their belief is that the system will create an open shot for a player they just have to find who that player may be. That's why Clark took the shot. He was the player that the system created the wide open 3pt shot for. He had to take it. Freeman never left the baseline.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 20, 2010 0:48:47 GMT -5
Your premise is wrong. Burke didn't say that JTIII does not want drives to the basket and JTIII would never say that. The point is and was that cuts get layups. We tried to drive into the zone but the result often was turnovers and blocked shots. If it was easy to get layups against a zone no one would run a zone. The whole point of a zone is to make it hard to get the ball inside and make teams have to shoot over it. [/qu Burke did not say that JT3 did not want drives, she said that he said that cuts to the basket and receiving pass for a layup is as good as a drive to the basket. My point was that one reason the Hoyas have had trouble with the Syracuse Zone under JT3 is that they have not had guards and small forwards who had good enough handle to drive in the gaps of the zone without getting ball strpped most of the time. Wallace and Sapp did not have the handle to do it and only Chris on this team has it. Now there are other ways to beat a zone like passing to player at foul line or below like they did in 2nd half but that is very difficult with 6'7" and 6'5" guards out front and 6'9",.6'9" and 6'7" in the back who are very athletic.,
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 19, 2010 21:55:16 GMT -5
I hate to keep quoting Doris Burke, but during the Nova game she said that JT3 said his players getting to the basket via backdoor cuts was just like a player driving to the basket so he did not worry about players ability to drive to the basket. Now that may be true for most of the teams in the BE, but for this Syracuse teams zone defense with its size and length you must have the ability to drive into the middle and maintain your dribble without getting ball stripped. There are no angles to pass the ball to the basket because they are so tall and so long. The Hoyas only have one guy who has confidence in his handle to dribble into the middle of Cuse's zone and that is Chris. Therefore you get this monotnous passing of the ball around the horn over and over. Villanova and a few more teams have the guards and small forwards who can do this and therefore can get the Cuse zone out of position. Right now I cringe whenever Jason or Austin try to dribble into Cuse's zone. A turnover is almost inevitable. The fact that the two bigs for Syracuse went to the bench early 2nd half, opened the passing lanes a little and the Hoyas were able to take advantage. I agree with those who have said that Vee looks real calm on the court vs Hollis who looks like you could not stick a straight pen between his cheeks. I don't know if this kid has an adequate handle or not because he just has not been in game long enough to tell. This was the first time I missed having Rivers on this team. He could not shoot but he had a good enough handle and was strong enough to drive the ball into a zone and maintain possession and pass it. I believe in JT3 and he like his players is maturing in his coaching.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 19, 2010 1:20:39 GMT -5
The only one in a position to do so was Monroe, with 4 fouls. Take him out of the game and it suddenly becomes much harder to get the bucket we would need on the other end. Of course, one could say that we were likely to need to shoot threes at that point, anyway, so the loss of Monroe might not have been quite as critical; however, we would have had a lot of trouble without him in any overtime. If he doesn't want to foul out then he needs to block the shot. That is what Patrick Ewing Jr. Or Roy Hibbert or Jeff Green would have done. Therein lies the reason, that despite all the hype about Monroe being a lottery pick there are holes in his game that he must address if he wants to be a star at the next level. At his bulk he will be slated for small forward because of ball handling ability. He will have to guard forwards like Joseph just a lot better. Right now he does not have a consistant jump shot from 10 feet out.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 18, 2010 23:22:03 GMT -5
The guy who made the difference in this game was Chris Joseph. Two years ago Summers was schooling him and this board was berating him as a bust and for choosing Cuse over the Hoyas. Freshman grow up and now he is considered one of the best 6th men in country. Hopefully Hollis will also have this progression next year.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 18, 2010 23:10:04 GMT -5
Let's try not to get too positive about what just happened. It is good, of course, that we dug in and came back to make it a game. But after the embarrassment on Sunday, we should have been fighting from the opening tip, instaed of lettiong them dictate the game. Horrific defense, sloppy offense the first 25 minutes, inexcusable. Syracuse started to coast, which helped our comeback. And the bottom line is that we had every opportunity to pull this one out, and we didn't get it done. The sting was eased a little - but it still stings. Good points. I too think Syracuse is the 2nd best team in the country with Kentucky no. 1 just because of amazing talent and Walls. After the first game at Syracuse and the first half of this game i was resigned to think the Hoyas would not be a good matchup for a team with large athletic frontlines, but the 2nd half showed me that they can indeed beat those teams. Again I will bet my house that for the rest of the year if Syracuse shoots 30 or more freethrows they don't come close to shooting 90%. It stings to lose to Syracuse, but they are about that much better than us. A 4 point loss at home is probably about right. You can say that it only became that way because they coasted, but there were some amazing plays in that comeback. Monroe was an absolute beast. We played poorly in the beginning, but we played other worldly for about 10 minutes there. Ideally, you dont want the game to come to those types of ebbs and flows, but IMO, Syracuse is the best team in the country. They have 2 losses in by far away the best conference. Our 3 point shooting was just poor tonight. We said it before hand, that would be the only way we'd win, and we were right.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 18, 2010 22:28:58 GMT -5
For the guards to get the ball into Monroe in a tight zone he must carve out a space for himself to give them a target. I did not see Rutgers game but tonight and other end of game situations Monroe is either too tired or just not strong enough to do this so he half-heartedly flashes for about 2 seconds in the lane. The guards have to be pinpoint passers to get the ball to him in that short span.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 18, 2010 22:17:44 GMT -5
Did you see the wide open two 3pt shots Hollis took? One barely drew iron , the other was an airball that missed the rim by a foot., Agreed, those were absolutely awful though not sure how that relates to Sims. Look, I understand the desire to want to see Sims get more PT but as far as playing time goes, I have to trust the coach. He sees how the players perform day in and day out, in practice and in game. I have to believe there is a rational reason JTIII doesn't put him in the game. My point Sup is that others made mistakes also, yet were not yanked. Because of Syracuse's height on the inside I thought Sims could help in this game. In the Nova game I agree he should not touch the floor. Can anyone point out anymore blatant defensive errors the kid did more than anyone else to get yanked. I thought I saw him get a rebound, a block and 2 points while in there.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 18, 2010 22:09:06 GMT -5
Great comeback, monroe should have touched the ball though instead of the clark three, just my opinion. Would have been nice to bring it sice the start of the game.. still upset over this game... I agree but the young man has got to play through fatigue and demand the ball, like Samuels did last night for Louisville. Samuels played more minutes than Monroe did, but he worked hard for position and demanded ball each time on offense., Monroe just has to be more assertive and stronger in holding position. The kid played hard though so you can't fault the effort. Just wish he would become automatic at the freethrow line like Samuels was last night for Louisville. If he does this next game against Samuels and Louisville then all is well.,
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 18, 2010 21:56:50 GMT -5
Now, will someone explain to me what Sims did in the first half that was so bad that he got no PT the rest of the way. Took a 20.5 ft 2-pt jump shot and airballed it. But other than he did have the baby hook shot and a couple of rebounds. Did you see the wide open two 3pt shots Hollis took? One barely drew iron , the other was an airball that missed the rim by a foot.,
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 18, 2010 21:54:22 GMT -5
Is there anyone on the board that is familiar with JT3' tenue at Princeton? Did he always have teams that played few bench players. Just seems like its a stubborn block that he can't get passed unless there is foul trouble. His dad was stubborn too in his coaching habits, so it maybe something we have to live with., Does not look like we will ever see a 9 man rotation.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 18, 2010 21:42:51 GMT -5
I thought JT3 did a masterful job of yo-yoing Monroe and Chris on offense/defense throughout game. However his placing Wright on Routins after Wright got 2 quick fouls was not good. It meant Chris had to chase Routins all over the court and it was inevitable he would get tagged with his fourth foul trying to run through a screen. After Greg saved ball with the Hoyas last timeout I was a little let down that I saw no set play after the set in bound play under basket was covered. Love 3 but he has got to give Sims and Vee some PT the rest of the way in BE so that they can contribute in NCAA.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 18, 2010 21:30:33 GMT -5
Thanks for starting this thread. Good show of heart by this team. Would have loved the win but this game solidifies the Hoyas prospects in the NCAA. This team can play with a team with abig athletic frontline that plays a zone. No other team they will face in the NCAA will have a zone as long and as good as the Cuse. This team can beat anyone. Now, will someone explain to me what Sims did in the first half that was so bad that he got no PT the rest of the way. Everyone on the team was making mistakes. The Hoyas could have used his height. Monroe's outside shot and freethrows have gone south the last 3 games.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Feb 17, 2010 9:33:10 GMT -5
I enjoy seeing the Hoyas beat Syracuse and whinning Mr. McGoo as much as anyone, but this is not a do or die game. Unless the Hoyas lose the rest of their games and are one and done in the BET, the Hoyas are NCAA bound and the only question is seeding. The question for me is how does the team play against a big athletic front line that plays zone. The only game where the Hoyas did not have an answer was the Syracuse game. After Syracuse extended its zone defense to counter the Hoyas 14-0 run, the Hoyas were pretty much spanked the rest of the way. In the Nova game after getting slapped in 1st half the Hoyas came back to make the game close. The key to winning NCAA is getting the right matchup unless you are a team stacked like Kentucky. These Hoyas have shown that they can win against (1) fast tempo team(Washington),(2) high accuracy 3pt shooting team(Butler),(3) big frontline with pressing man-to-man defense, with high accuracy 3pt shooting(Duke), and (4) pressing guard oriented offense/defense with high 3pt accuracy(Villanova). What they have not shown to this point is can they beat a team with a big athletic frontline that plays a zone defense the majority of the game with decent 3pt shooting. To that end, I hope Cuse plays the way they played earlier in their wins over UNC and Texas. If the Hoyas can beat that team, or play that team neck n neck then the rest of the season will be gravy and we get ready for BET and NCAA by giving Sims and Sandford more PT the rest of the way. Some have said that the Cuse zone defense has been JT3's kryptonite. i would say yes only when Mr McGoo has the talent like this year to run it. This game could exorcise those demons for this team and JT3. Let the fun begin.
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