Starting 3 spot and 3rd guard

[GIGAFAN99]

Considering their experience, recent summer evaluations, and of course that collegehoops.net interview which mentions them by name, are these the guys?

And if not, who?

[hoyaboy1]

I chose Michael Bolton. I think Ewing will start, but I really have no idea about the 3rd guard spot.

[jacko]

My starting 5, in order: Sapp, Wallace, *Summers*, Green, Hibbert

Crawford = Third Guard
Rivers = POSSIBLY giving Crawford a run for his money
Ewing = 3/4, first man off the bench

And even if I'm completely right, nothing I say right now really matters.

[RockawayHoya]

I'm with Jacko, primarily because I haven't been impressed with Ewing Jr., and partly because all reports out of KL point to Summers looking like a potential starter. If TC can rid himself of the defensive lapses that have plagued him when he's gotten his limited minutes, he could be a key role player for us this year.

[theEDGEfactor]

i also think summers starts at the 3 and tc is the 3rd guard off the bench

[SirSaxa]

Does anyone think that Spann and Thornton will be part of the rotation?

[FLHoya]

I voted for the last one.

I think Bolton's got the three spot nailed down as of this point. He's pretty much a carbon copy of the other more talented 3 spot players who came before him, and maybe his range is a little weaker, but he's always inexplicably been a fan favorite.

The center spot's always been a rock at GTown, and I think that's gonna be more of the same with John Tesh patrolling the paint.

We're really gonna benefit from the versatile "point forward" skills of Yanni down low as well. Nice to see us keeping up with our history of finding good foreign-born players...esp. ones with a mean streak.

We're gonna be a little thin at the guard spots this season, and it's going to be hard to replace Ashanti Cook's minutes. If there's anybody with the stamina to go long periods of time w/o a breather, my money's on Kenny G.

The point guard position...well, you've gotta have a rock running the show. Good thing we've got the experienced leadership of Peter Cetera to guide the ship.

Of course, what I'm most excited about--like all Hoya fans--is our highly rated four-man "freshman class":

images.amazon.com/images/P/B000002L0I.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

Should be a fun year.

[jerseyhoya34]

Saxa, yes on Spann, and a no on Thornton. What people don't seem to report about Ewing is that he's banged up right now. He had to sit for most of the game today with knee problems. As a result, little by the way of the explosiveness that was there last summer.

As far as starters go, I only see Wallace, Green, and Hibbert as locks. I see Summers, Ewing, Crawford, and Sapp as being the major candidates for the remaining two spots, with Spann being a darkhorse. I think we could see JT3 surprise some people with his starting lineup because he does many things on "feel." He may feel as though there is better chemistry without Ewing and/or Sapp on the floor, leading to a surprise entry from a Summers or Crawford.

I'll hopefully post some thoughts later this week because I came away from KL today surprised in many areas -- how Jeff is truly turning into a point forward and the benefits/pitfalls of this, how we seem to be seeing a Wallace as off-guard experiment, how Rivers is more explosive than I ever thought he would be... Most of all, I am a bit taken aback by how different Ewing, Summers, and Spann are, with the result that it is hard to say X is better, Y will start, etc. More on these issues sometime later in the week (hopefully).

The issue of our guards was raised earlier in the week and how they might inhibit a championship run. That's not the issue. CBB is not a guard's game. It is a game of execution, and it just so happens that guards are usually responsible for execution. Not necessarily on our team. With this bunch, Jeff Green is that guy, and he's showing an ability to run a team from the point position. When he's not doing it, Wallace is.

The loss of Cook is important and probably more significant than Bowman and Owens. Why? He could execute something more often than not when nothing else was there. He had a knack for hitting that pull up from 20 feet with the shot clock running down. The key for our season is not to find this guy who can make lemonade out of lemons. We need a guy who gives us lemonade in the first place, and Jeff will be that guy, without any kind of interference from a Bowman or even Cook, who probably should have deferred to Green in our last two BET losses.

So, I'm more than content to have Sapp in there at SG or even Crawford as complementary, system-oriented players because that means Jeff is the focus along with Wallace in the play-making department.

[hoyaboy1]

My worry is that if we have, say, Crawford at the 2 and Ewing at the 3 that teams will press the hell out of us, and we won't respond well. I like Tyler but I don't think he really fits well on this roster. We need ball handling, shooting and scoring from the 2 more than we need rebouding and hustle.

I really don't see any possible way that Spann or Crawford start. I also don't see how Spann gets any minutes, unless Macklin or Summers don't. We aren't going to consistently play 3 frontcourt subs.

[jerseyhoya34]

I don't see Crawford starting with Ewing either, but I could see Crawford/Summers as being a reasonable combination that gives us the shooting at the SF spot and some good, system-oriented play at the SG spot. Incidetally, Crawford is probably a better shooter than Sapp this summer anyway. He doesn't give you Sapp's handle, however. Sapp is also probably a better rebounder than Crawford, so I don't quite agree with how you're breaking down Crawford v. Sapp.

Ewing has got to be healthy if he is going to start. He needs to jump in the whirlpool or do something because Summers is too good to keep him out in favor of a more experienced, but hobbled, player in Ewing.

[hoyaboy1]

I wasn't comparing Sapp and Crawford when I said Tyler wasn't a good fit - I don't think Sapp is an ideal fit for this team at SG either. I just like him there more than Tyler. I still feel like he has a SFs game in a SGs body, and the last thing we need is another forward.

We'll see. Like I said, I don't think he has any chance of starting. But he might very well be the favorite as the 3rd guard.

[GIGAFAN99]

I agree with Jersey as far as yes on Spann and no on Thornton.

I actually think it will be the long-assumed Wallace, Sapp, Ewing, Green, Hibbert when it's all said and done.

With the praise being heaped on him, I think Crawford is way out in front for the third guard. As for the rest, I do think Spann backs up at the three and Summers backs up at the four. I know it's not popular but Princeton takes a lot of development from post players and point guards and I think Macklin and Rivers will be used sparingly as they learn. Summers' shot and size will get him a lot of minutes but...

...with a top ten team, I kind of find it difficult to believe JTIII will start Summers when he has an option of starting a player who knows the system in Ewing. That's not to say Summers isn't an viable option, just that you'd rather start the game in some sort of flow and a veteran provides that. I think his comments in that interview kind of implied as much. So that's where I think we stand.

Note: Of course, this assumes Ewing is healthy.

[SirSaxa]

gigafan99 said:

I actually think it will be the long-assumed Wallace, Sapp, Ewing, Green, Hibbert when it's all said and done.

Giga-- I agree with you again. And Jersey, thanks for your insights. Hoyaboy, I see it a bit differently than you. Of course, I haven't seen any KL action at all. But I am going to share my thoughts anyway!

Sapp is almost as certain as Roy, Jeff and Jon to start. We like to talk about SG and PG, but last year, JT3 had Cook, Wallace and Sapp all sharing the PG responsibilities -- some of which end up in Jeff Green's hands as Point Forward (as several have mentioned already.) And clearly, JT3 really likes and trusts Sapp.

Sapp and Wallace give us two good ball handlers, one excellent driver, one very good outside shooter (although not one to create his own shot), one superb rebounder, one proven leader, one very quick defender, one three year starter, and two heady, hardworking, experienced veterans. Those are all the things we need from our guards, even if their individual talents don't exactly fit the classic distribution. I also think Jessie is going to prove to be a much better shooter than some give him credit for. And with all the attention on Roy and Jeff, and JT3's well-known penchant for keeping the lane open and unclogged, there will be lots of opportunities for Jessie to drive and take it to the rim, or dish to the big boys.

If you guys are right and there is no place for Thornton, that implies that Tyler and/or Rivers will be the next guy(s) off the bench at guard. Could Rivers become a Gene Smith type shut down defender?

I mention Spann because I don't hear much about him and lots of people seem to have overlooked him - or give him no chance to get into the rotation. I can't say I saw a lot on the court last season to disprove that, but I did hear a number of comments from those who should know that he was looking really really good in practice. I will not be at all surprised if he ends up splitting time at SF with Pat, while Summers spells Jeff at PF, and Jeff spells Roy at the 5.

Here's another thought.. what if Spann starts, Pat backs up the 4/5, and Summers shares time with Spann? Or -- Summers starts and Spann backs him up?

OK... this is starting to look like wild rambling. On second thought, maybe it really IS wild rambling. The hard part for me is evaluating Summers (without seeing him) for two reasons:
1. How good is he and how quickly he picks up the system
2. How willing will JT3 be to give significant minutes to a freshman not named Freeman
(Starting Roy, Jeff and Jon as frosh doesn't count as that was out of desperate necessity.)

Thanks to all of you guys for sharing your observations from KL and your thoughts on how things might develop.

[hoyas2008]

In response to your second scenerio SirSaxa, I just cant seem to see Ewing at the 4/5 spot. Part of his problem at IU was that he was overmatched in the post, and hence got into foul trouble.
However, obviously I'm not the coach, and with JT3s Princeton-like offense, position becomes less important. I guess we will have to wait and see

Other than that, good thoughts all around on this thread

[GIGAFAN99]

I completely agree '08 and that is the main reason this team will be better than last year: we will always defend the post with post players.

Our weakest 20 minutes each game last year were the ones where Brandon was playing 4. Now Brandon was a very good defender at 3 especially off the ball, but after chasing around small forwards we had him defend 4s when Roy went out. That gave us a very ordinary, if not below average defense down low.

This year I can't see us messing with a similar scenario. We'll put in a fresh Summers (and/or Macklin) when Jeff moves to center and allow Ewing to play 3 exclusively. In fact there might be times this year where the opposing team is staring down Sapp, Crawford, Ewing, Green, and Hibbert which would be two guards at least 6'3 210 and a long, athletic 3 before they even have to deal with Jeff and Roy. That's where I think we improve the most this year. We won't sacrifice on the defensive end on substitutions.

[prhoya]

Not starting, but getting around 10 mins. pg.

[YB]

I think TC starts and Ewing is 1st off the bench.

I think Coach is a very smart guy- he knows his systems requires spacing, and that's tough without another 3 point shooter. Pat is a great player and will go down in the books as such before it's all said and done, but I see him as Jeff's replacement. TC had 2 years of practice in the system, he can hit 3s, and is strong as hell- I think he's the starting 2.

[hoyas2008]

I agree with that, but all bets are off after a few games. I think Ewing and TC are going to get chances to prove themselves, but I think III could change it up in a flash after that. I think there are at least 4 guys that can compete for that 3 spot (including Egerson).

[hoya73]

It's interesting how Macklin's stock has dropped compared to when we first got his verbal. I'm hoping he pleasantly surprises as the backup to Roy/Jeff inside. If he's coachable, he has the raw talent. That talent hasn't displayed well in relatively uncoached AAU and Kenner League play,
but maybe the staff can develop him to do certain things. We need rebounding and that should be his strength.

[GIGAFAN99]

It's interesting on Egerson because I would have said that too if I had read an update where Egerson looked like he had gone to the Tyler Crawford Fitness Club.

Based on the reports he still seems to be going to Sead's House of Pancakes and that worries me. The season is still a few months off but conditioning was the big priority on Egerson's list and it doesn't sound like he's done enough but I'd have to see first hand.

And we've seen Ewing in game shape so him being out of game shape coming off an injury doesn't concern me. Spann almost never seemed out of game shape, even as a freshman. So unless he hits the treadmill, he's behind at least those two.

I didn't understand YB exactly. You think Tyler starts at the 2 and Ewing is first off the bench, but who starts at three? Or did you mean Tyler starts at the 3? I think that would be the most unexpected of all.