TC
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Post by TC on Mar 6, 2017 21:20:47 GMT -5
I don't expect III to be going anywhere, but 5-13 in the Big East is disgraceful. That's Joey Meyer territory. I don't see how anyone can dispute that. There's no question that III has accomplished far more than Esherick, but at this point we don't seem that far away from the depths of the Esh error. Joey Meyer was 1-13 in CUSA and 3-23 overall the year he was replaced. And that's following a 2-12 CUSA record. This season has been a huge disappointment but we are not in Joey Meyer territory.
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madgesiq92
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Post by madgesiq92 on Mar 6, 2017 22:46:12 GMT -5
The damage to the brand was done a LONG time ago. That is not an issue at this point. Let's try to focus on rebuilding the brand. To think that there cannot be a new era of successful Hoya basketball is so defeatist. Yes, JT2 got tired and handed the program off to Esherick instead entering into a real search for a new coach. Yes, Esherick failed (sorry) at rebuilding a stale program and was fired and -- again -- there really was no national search but JT3. Let's not rehash it but the JT3 era started great but eventually petered out. Why can't Georgetown -- like it did 45 years ago -- get bold and start a new era? Think of how crazy it was when Georgetown selected JT2 as HC -- a local high black high school coach with strong ties to the community after nearly a century of white establishment coaches. I'd like to see a complete break with the past -- and that includes many of the retread potential coaching names bandied about on this site and others -- and a new bold direction. Is there a local coach who can help G-Town lock down the DMV recruiting scene? (Why did Broadus blow his chance!) The brand can be rebuilt and reestablished. There is still some serious cachet to the Georgetown name in popular culture. If the team becomes badass again very quickly we'll see musicians and the entertainment industry use Hoyas as shorthand for toughness, trailblazing, African-American pride, and hopefully championships. Now that Everyone understands your idea for reinvigorating the program, your posts previous to this can be evaluated/discounted accordingly. Thank you
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Mar 6, 2017 22:55:01 GMT -5
Let's try to focus on rebuilding the brand. To think that there cannot be a new era of successful Hoya basketball is so defeatist. Yes, JT2 got tired and handed the program off to Esherick instead entering into a real search for a new coach. Yes, Esherick failed (sorry) at rebuilding a stale program and was fired and -- again -- there really was no national search but JT3. Let's not rehash it but the JT3 era started great but eventually petered out. Why can't Georgetown -- like it did 45 years ago -- get bold and start a new era? Think of how crazy it was when Georgetown selected JT2 as HC -- a local high black high school coach with strong ties to the community after nearly a century of white establishment coaches. I'd like to see a complete break with the past -- and that includes many of the retread potential coaching names bandied about on this site and others -- and a new bold direction. Is there a local coach who can help G-Town lock down the DMV recruiting scene? (Why did Broadus blow his chance!) The brand can be rebuilt and reestablished. There is still some serious cachet to the Georgetown name in popular culture. If the team becomes badass again very quickly we'll see musicians and the entertainment industry use Hoyas as shorthand for toughness, trailblazing, African-American pride, and hopefully championships. Now that Everyone understands your idea for reinvigorating the program, your posts previous to this can be evaluated/discounted accordingly. Thank you What does that mean?
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madgesiq92
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Post by madgesiq92 on Mar 6, 2017 22:55:07 GMT -5
I wish JTIII could do it, but it is now going to be over a 10 year drought since even sniffing the Sweet 16. The past two years have been a failure by any measuring stick, but just so I have a frame of reference for the future, if a Jason Clark 3 in the air to send NC State to OT or a tie against Utah at half isn't sniffing the Sweet 16, what is your crews definition of a "sniff"?
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madgesiq92
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Post by madgesiq92 on Mar 6, 2017 22:58:01 GMT -5
I don't expect III to be going anywhere, but 5-13 in the Big East is disgraceful. That's Joey Meyer territory. I don't see how anyone can dispute that. There's no question that III has accomplished far more than Esherick, but at this point we don't seem that far away from the depths of the Esh error. Joey Meyer was 1-13 in CUSA and 3-23 overall the year he was replaced. And that's following a 2-12 CUSA record. This season has been a huge disappointment but we are not in Joey Meyer territory. +1000 Appreciate how TC, who had always been among the finest contributors to this board, deftly disposes the lazy Joey Meyer analogy.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Mar 6, 2017 22:58:38 GMT -5
Essentially, the only shoes JT III will be filling (in the short run) are Esherick's. 5-10 years down the line, if we are (fingers firmly crossed) competitive, then the larger JT Jr. shoes will be looking for someone to fill them. All I want is to be competitive again. I don't think that's too much to ask. A rallying point for students/alumni/community/fans. There is a lot of delusion on this board about the state of the program that JT3 took over, a program in the proverbial toilet that many wanted just to see "be competitive again"". If JT3 were to leave tomorrow, next year, or in 2020, he will have left the program in far better position than he took over. The program hadn't won a Big East title since 1989 and been in a Final Four since 1985 when he took over. He took over a program where Harvey Thomas was the prized recruit, Drew Hall was taking 30 footers with 5 seconds left in tie games, 6 men were occasionally on the court, the AD was telling alumni that the NCAA tournament was an unreasonable expectation, and an NIT banner was hung over the urinals by a coach who was threatening with one fist to be here for 30 more years. www.weeklystandard.com/the-decline-and-fall-of-the-hoya-nation/article/3526Thanks Tyler. Glad you finally joined the board.
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madgesiq92
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Post by madgesiq92 on Mar 6, 2017 23:11:30 GMT -5
Now that Everyone understands your idea for reinvigorating the program, your posts previous to this can be evaluated/discounted accordingly. Thank you What does that mean? Sorry, not trying to be disrespectful, but anybody who thinks that the idea for future success at Georgetown basketball is to recapture the "magic" of the 1980s is chasing a ghost.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Mar 6, 2017 23:13:45 GMT -5
Sorry, not trying to be disrespectful, but anybody who thinks that the idea for future success at Georgetown basketball is to recapture the "magic" of the 1980s is chasing a ghost. I think you missed the point he made. He's saying do a reboot much like we did in hiring JT2. Use what we have but quit trying to be so insular in that we only hire Thompson's or his long time assistants.
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madgesiq92
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Post by madgesiq92 on Mar 6, 2017 23:14:21 GMT -5
There is a lot of delusion on this board about the state of the program that JT3 took over, a program in the proverbial toilet that many wanted just to see "be competitive again"". If JT3 were to leave tomorrow, next year, or in 2020, he will have left the program in far better position than he took over. The program hadn't won a Big East title since 1989 and been in a Final Four since 1985 when he took over. He took over a program where Harvey Thomas was the prized recruit, Drew Hall was taking 30 footers with 5 seconds left in tie games, 6 men were occasionally on the court, the AD was telling alumni that the NCAA tournament was an unreasonable expectation, and an NIT banner was hung over the urinals by a coach who was threatening with one fist to be here for 30 more years. www.weeklystandard.com/the-decline-and-fall-of-the-hoya-nation/article/3526Thanks Tyler. Glad you finally joined the board. No problem, Blake. Don't drop the soap.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Mar 6, 2017 23:19:58 GMT -5
Thanks Tyler. Glad you finally joined the board. No problem, Blake. Don't drop the soap. Good stuff. You have any more brilliance for the board?
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Post by practice on Mar 6, 2017 23:26:55 GMT -5
Sorry, not trying to be disrespectful, but anybody who thinks that the idea for future success at Georgetown basketball is to recapture the "magic" of the 1980s is chasing a ghost. I think you missed the point he made. He's saying do a reboot much like we did in hiring JT2. Use what we have but quit trying to be so insular in that we only hire Thompson's or his long time assistants. Thanks Eagle ... that is correct. While it would be nice to recapture some of the national love the program received in the 80s, my point was indeed that GU needs to break the mold again when it selects the next head coach. JT2 was a crazy hire - young, black, local, no college coaching experience etc. My hope is that the university will get bold again and break from the current regime and the current status quo. High school, AAU, MIT data analytics ... just not a conventional pick or someone off of the very lean Thompson coaching tree. Georgetown owes a great deal to the Thompsons. And they have had a great and profitable 45 year run. It would be great if GU took a radical risk ... and if it's a 3 or 4 year failure, so what? Change is needed desperately.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Mar 6, 2017 23:35:40 GMT -5
1. Agree. 2. Agree to disagree. 3. Funny. Threatening someone from behind a keyboard... Lol! 4. Agree to disagree. This is GU, where change happens very slowly. 5. Wrong. We are all Hoya fans. Re #3. I was paraphrasing this excerpt, not threatening anyone! “Even when JTIII was successful, he was using Esherick’s recruits.” Verdict: Pure applesauce. I’ll give a high five to anyone who thinks Craig Esherick would have taken those same players to a Sweet Sixteen and Final Four in back to back seasons. And then I’ll punch that person in the face. Jeff Green was born to play in JTIII’s system. Jeff Green became a lottery pick because of JTIII’s system. And Roy Hibbert went from a guy who couldn’t even run up and down the court to a dude who became a first round draft pick and a defensive stalwart. I’m done with this." Re #5. Jeff Goodman's article may have resonated with me if he had not only used anonymous sources. Jon Wallace and PE Jr. sitting next to III and Hibbert's reaction are more meaningful to me than quotes from anonymous former players. It's common knowledge that this program went to a FF on Esh's recruits in 2007. Green and Hibbert were exactly that. Take your CasualHoya nonsense elsewhere as that can't be disputed. Otto, Greg and other talents all failed here in colossal style in March under this coach. Now this coach can't get recruits of that caliber.
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 6, 2017 23:47:52 GMT -5
The past two years have been a failure by any measuring stick, but just so I have a frame of reference for the future, if a Jason Clark 3 in the air to send NC State to OT or a tie against Utah at half isn't sniffing the Sweet 16, what is your crews definition of a "sniff"? you seem to have cut-and-pasted your way to inaccurately quoting me in your last post. The part that so offended you about not sniffing the Sweet 16 was written by This Just In, not me.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Mar 6, 2017 23:52:17 GMT -5
The past two years have been a failure by any measuring stick, but just so I have a frame of reference for the future, if a Jason Clark 3 in the air to send NC State to OT or a tie against Utah at half isn't sniffing the Sweet 16, what is your crews definition of a "sniff"? you seem to have cut-and-pasted your way to inaccurately quoting me in your last post. The part that so offended you about not sniffing the Sweet 16 was written by This Just In, not me. Guru, if referring to madgesiq92, he's a fraud and then some. Don't even waste your time. PUBLIC WARNING: Stop insulting other posters. Suspension or loss of posts and/or password privileges will follow with continued comments such as these.--Admin
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Mar 7, 2017 0:33:19 GMT -5
Joey Meyer was 1-13 in CUSA and 3-23 overall the year he was replaced. And that's following a 2-12 CUSA record. This season has been a huge disappointment but we are not in Joey Meyer territory. +1000 Appreciate how TC, who had always been among the finest contributors to this board, deftly disposes the lazy Joey Meyer analogy. is this a video game? Giving points now for this? How about your negative points for posting nonsense. PUBLIC WARNING: See comments above.--Admin
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Mar 7, 2017 8:42:09 GMT -5
The past two years have been a failure by any measuring stick, but just so I have a frame of reference for the future, if a Jason Clark 3 in the air to send NC State to OT or a tie against Utah at half isn't sniffing the Sweet 16, what is your crews definition of a "sniff"? Actually win.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Mar 7, 2017 20:27:35 GMT -5
I don't expect III to be going anywhere, but 5-13 in the Big East is disgraceful. That's Joey Meyer territory. I don't see how anyone can dispute that. There's no question that III has accomplished far more than Esherick, but at this point we don't seem that far away from the depths of the Esh error. Joey Meyer was 1-13 in CUSA and 3-23 overall the year he was replaced. And that's following a 2-12 CUSA record. This season has been a huge disappointment but we are not in Joey Meyer territory. Hmm, really? Perhaps I should have said that he is heading for Joey Meyer territory. But then again, Joey Meyer was clearly not a flop from day one. To wit (from Wikipedia): Joey Meyer led DePaul to seven NCAA Tournament appearances in his first eight seasons, including back-to-back Sweet Sixteen appearances in his second and third seasons. In the 1986 tournament, #12-seeded DePaul—led by freshman guard Rod Strickland (14.1 ppg season average) and junior Dallas Comegys (13.8 ppg) -- upset #5-seeded Virginia and #4-seeded Oklahoma in the East regional before losing to top-seeded Duke 74-67.[2] In 1987, the Blue Demons—again led by Comegys (17.5 ppg) and Strickland (16.3 ppg) -- finished the regular season 26-2 and received a #3 seed in the Midwest regional of the 1987 tournament. They defeated #14-seeded Louisiana Tech and #6-seeded St. John's before losing to #10-seeded LSU. Meyer was honored as the Chevrolet Coach of the Year in 1987.[5] Besides seven NCAA tournament appearances, Meyer led the Blue Demons to three appearances in the National Invitation Tournament.[4] In both 1988 and 1989, DePaul reached the second round of the NCAA tournament, but they were on a downward trajectory. In 1992, the Blue Demons were co-champions of the newly formed Great Midwest Conference but made their last NCAA tournament appearance under Meyer. In 1996, they finished 11-18, their first losing season since 1971, and the next year, a young DePaul team finished 3-23. Meyer was dismissed on April 28, 1997 and succeeded by Pat Kennedy just over six weeks later He didn't have to rebuild the program from the basement, and he never got to a final four, but he did win a coach of the year award, and had 7 NCAA appearances in 8 years before things started heading downhill. Not so different from when things started heading downhill here, interrupted by one NCAA appearance featuring a loss to mighty Florida Gulf Coast. I've been through 3-23, and I don't think we'll ever see 3-23 again, but if you don't think that there are similarities here, you are wearing blinders.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Mar 7, 2017 20:31:52 GMT -5
Joey Meyer was 1-13 in CUSA and 3-23 overall the year he was replaced. And that's following a 2-12 CUSA record. This season has been a huge disappointment but we are not in Joey Meyer territory. +1000 Appreciate how TC, who had always been among the finest contributors to this board, deftly disposes the lazy Joey Meyer analogy. Welcome back, Madge. But if you think the analogy is lazy, think again. We are on a clear downward arch, not so different from what DePaul experienced under Meyer after considerable early success. No, we'll never see 3-23, but there's also no light at the end of the tunnel.
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Post by augustusfinknottle on Mar 7, 2017 21:00:59 GMT -5
At least the Ark floated.
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 7, 2017 21:11:45 GMT -5
This is really not that dissimilar to what we are experiencing and have experienced under JT3:
Joey Meyer led DePaul to seven NCAA Tournament appearances in his first eight seasons, including back-to-back Sweet Sixteen appearances in his second and third seasons. In the 1986 tournament, #12-seeded DePaul—led by freshman guard Rod Strickland (14.1 ppg season average) and junior Dallas Comegys (13.8 ppg) -- upset #5-seeded Virginia and #4-seeded Oklahoma in the East regional before losing to top-seeded Duke 74-67.[2] In 1987, the Blue Demons—again led by Comegys (17.5 ppg) and Strickland (16.3 ppg) -- finished the regular season 26-2 and received a #3 seed in the Midwest regional of the 1987 tournament. They defeated #14-seeded Louisiana Tech and #6-seeded St. John's before losing to #10-seeded LSU. Meyer was honored as the Chevrolet Coach of the Year in 1987.[5] Besides seven NCAA tournament appearances, Meyer led the Blue Demons to three appearances in the National Invitation Tournament.[4]
In both 1988 and 1989, DePaul reached the second round of the NCAA tournament, but they were on a downward trajectory. In 1992, the Blue Demons were co-champions of the newly formed Great Midwest Conference but made their last NCAA tournament appearance under Meyer. In 1996, they finished 11-18, their first losing season since 1971, and the next year, a young DePaul team finished 3-23. Meyer was dismissed on April 28, 1997 and succeeded by Pat Kennedy just over six weeks later.[6][7]
EDIT: Ha. hoyarooter beat me to the Wikipedia cut and paste.
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