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Post by RockawayHoya on Dec 9, 2005 0:00:36 GMT -5
Props to "Orange Crush." $50,000 to charity? Damn. Loud, organized... impressive. If only HB had 30,000 wild undergrads to draw from... I'm sure they'd be getting national TV love too! I read in one of those pregame articles posted around the chat board today that in order to be in the Orange Crush/Krush, you're required to solicit/collect a certain amount in donations from alumni/FOPs that then go to the charity causes. Interesting idea I gotta say. It's a great idea, but in order for it to work, you've got to have more students who want to go to the games (and get a good seat) than available (good) seats.
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YB
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by YB on Dec 9, 2005 0:02:22 GMT -5
I understand the optimism, but this loss leaves a huge bad taste in my mouth for how we lost.
We got absolutely out-hustled and out worked on the boards. They wanted it more than us.
We couldn't execute to save our lives- I think there is a real mental weakness and nervousness about this team, especially Bobo. Just jittery and anxious in general, and it shows in their execution and lack of aggression.
Program is going in the right direction but this team is not. Our guards can't defend anyone and our frontline can't get a rebound. Gonna be tough to beat quality teams under those circumstances.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 9, 2005 0:02:31 GMT -5
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Post by hoya137 on Dec 9, 2005 0:08:07 GMT -5
Painful to watch.
1- Still think they showed good heart tonight, and still love this team. DJ or Brandon hit those open 3s towards the end and we're at 5 with 3 mins left. We played them even (or better than even) in the second half until we got into desperation time.
But man it was painful...a few observations.
2- Rebounds hurt. When Roy wasn't on the floor, we got dominated. We gave up way too many offensive rebounds (21). On the flip side (and not just in this game) our offense doesn't put our big guys in position to get offensive rebounds. That was obvious tonight. Especially in the first half, it was one and done for us. On the other hand, every time we needed a stop, seems like they'd score on a putback
3- Aside from going in to Roy, I'm still not sure we know what we want to do on offense. I know with princeton we're using Roy up top now -- but I think Jeff is much better suited for being the playmaker there (much better passer, threat to drive) -- and would love to see some more high low jeff/roy action. Also, i think III needs to decide who he thinks deserves to be shooting the most (i.e. maybe DJ, maybe Cook, maybe Green) and should be tweaking the princeton O to help get those guys more open looks -- too often (even against some of the weaker teams we've played) we're at 5 seconds on the shot clock and we've yet to get a good look. We have guys that can shoot when they're open.
3- For everyone hammering on our guards..remember there aren't many (any?) guards in the country that can stay with Brown 1 on 1. That said, I agree that defending the 3 was poor. That needs work.
4- It's frustrating to see that we still don't get any consistency from our seniors -- the key expectation with seniors is that day in, day out, they play at a high level. We've yet to see consistency with ANY of our seniors this year. I hope Brandon can pick it up...because we really need him and he seems non-existent
Would have loved a better showing, but we gotta earn it -- we're not there yet -- certainly not offensively.
Go Hoyas.
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Post by ][-][ 0 `/ /-\ 5 on Dec 9, 2005 0:12:57 GMT -5
RANT TIME!!!!!!!!11 Bash me all you want because I'm a little delusional right now. First of all: Brandon Bowman This is the guy who came into the season hoping to play in the NBA in a year. Last year's leading scorer. He has been horrendous. The final play that sold me that I wanted Bobo on the bench was that missed 3 at the end. For all the open 3's the illini had in the game, that was the most open 3 and the guy had all the time in the world. BRICK. He is completely out of sync in the offense, he really doesn't move off the ball, doesn't swing it around the perimeter, doesn't set screens so what does he do? He eventually gets the ball and turns it over or misses. At a point we thought his new line drive shooting had reatly improved his free throws and 3 balls. He can't hit anything anymore. The throw the ball backhand and run to the hoop doesn't even work sometimes anymore. I'm not sure if I'm being too overly angry since the game just ended but is the reason he has led us for several seasons because we had noone else? Since Gerald Riley left the wight of the scoring was pushed onto Bobo's shoulders. But we don't need him anymore. He simply does not fit into the offense and is no longer the only guy who can score. Thow Egerson out there, throw DJ out there, throw Crawford out there(by the way GREAT fast break leyup near the end) Throw Spann out there. Maybe I have to cool down before evaluating fairly but I don't see why we can't keep him on the bench most of the game if not for all of it. Jeff Green: Thank you God for Jeff. I believe it wasn't the hoyas that outplayed the illini in the second half but Jeff Green. By himself. High flying dunks, a key 3 pointer, decent moves in the paint . WE HAVE GOT TO GET HIM THE BALL INSIDE MORE. Again, WE HAVE GOT TO GET HIM THE BALL INSIDE MORE. I the 2nd half when he got the ball close to the paint he was unstoppable. But the free throws. I thought by now he would have broken out of his slump and started hitting his free throws. And I loved his move to get fouled outside the arc, that was just a great heads-up play. Then he went to the line with a chance to cut it to 7 and he misses 2. Ouch. I was happy to see him get to the line more and make some great moves but hes gotta finish and I wouldn't mind a 3-point play more often. I'm very happy he finally blew up and took control of a game and he will be leading us from here on out. Ashanti: While Jeff Green accounted for all our first half points, Ashanti led the way in the first half, not that there were all that many points scored. Had a hot hand last game and started off this game well so why didn't he get more chances? In the Oregon game he actually penetrated some times. Penetration!!! If only we could have at least tried it this game. I wish we'd have tried having ashanti take it up top, then a Roy pick on his man, and a drive where Ashanti has the ability to a. take his patented fadeaway shot which has worked very well this year b. dish to green for a monster slam c. kick it out to dj for a trey(the one time he did penetrate today that i recall he tried some insane pass which somehow got to a man near the arc - extremely athletic play) or d. just try to finish and maybe take a foul. We have got to rely on our hot players more often like we did with Oregon Jon Wallace: Not much to say that already hasn't been said. He is plain screwed against a quicker guard. He couldn't do ANYTHING but the sad thing is we don't really have any people who can. I wish we had tried more run with... Jesse Sapp: Not enough playing time. Period. We needed our quickest guy in there, raw or not. He's the only guy on our team who had any chance of staying with Dee Brown and maybe being able to run the offense. Tyler: I loved the fast break layup. And I want Tyler to get more time because I believe his mishaps(defensively and the stupid 3-pointer) were because he wasn't in long enough to get in a groove. Hibbs: Easily his worst game yet. Offensively he was owned and blocked far too many times for a guy who is 7'2. Defensively he started out the game incredibly. Just block after block. But his horrible rebounding gave the Illini the game. Its volleyball not Basketball Roy. And what good is all the muscle you gained if you arent going to use it to BOX OUT! 33 minutes is kinda high for Roy. Could it be that he was just too fatigued? Owens: Quiet. For the 2nd half comeback I kept looking for us to get him 3-pointer opportunities. Its his bread and butter and we have to give him a shot to chuck some up. Did everyone forget the end of last year? 2nd half should be filled with DJ 3s. Can we please take away minutes from Bobo, Wallace, and Hibbs and give it to Sapp, Crawford, Spann, Egerson, and Thornton. I know I don't know how well they play in practice but I really don't give a damn. Rebounding: Ugly. WE SHOT A BETTER PERCENTAGE. If we had cleaned up on the glass we could have won. I'd appreciate someone watching a tape of the game and finding out how many points Illinois got off of tip-ins. Their team was so much more inspired and aggressive. Countles times you would see our guys standing around and Illini swarming and attacking and grabbing at the ball. But even when we did get a chance at the rebounds(Roy I'm looking at YOU!) we played volleyball. We kept tipping it up and tipping it up over and over again and the Illini would get in there and put it in the basket. And when we did get shots, which wasn't all that often, there were no hoyas attacking the paint. Noone would foolow their shot and go for the rebound. There may have been players down there but if we weren't boxing out on the defensive end there was no chance of us doing it on the offensive end. This was the first game I was upset with Roy over his rebounding. Illini: Off- 18 Total- 41 Hoyas: Off- 9 Total- 29 YUK Free throws: No excuse for 5-11 on free throws. None at all. Andwe have got to get to the line more. We should never have a game where the leading assists man ahs 3 assists. Their pressure defense completely stifled us and forced too many end of shot clock bombs. And finally JT3: This is the first game since he came here where I have been frustrated and angry with him. At first when I saw Jeff call for Roy and use him in the seemingly successful give-and-go I was ecstatic. We were closing in, momentum was shifting our way, and Jeff was finally taking control of the game. But as Jeff was signaling for Roy JT3 apparently called a timeout. Momentum finally changing, Jeff gaining confidence and we call a timeout? Dumb. It took us far too long to get a successful press going. Despite several timeouts during which to organize a press in the second half there were multiple times where it looked like we were trying a press but they were nothing like I'd ever seen. At one point there was only Ashanti pressuring Dee Brown who expectedly passed it up and they passed half-court. I asked out-loud what you call a one man press and my 13 year old sister, with her little experience in basketball, came up with a blunt but close to the truth word. Retarded. JT3 has to change who plays. Bobo and Wallace were obviously not effective from the beginning. Yet JT3 didn't limit their minutes all that much and even allowed Wallace to continure to try to control the offense and let Bobo touch the ball. Sometimes we need to share the ball a little less. When you have only 2 players who are able to score call their number more. Huddle your team in a timeout and say get Jeff and Ashanti the ball. And despite Jeff's dominance down low and inside the arc and Hibbert's off day I still saw Hibert hanging down low with Jeff on the perimeter. Tell Jeff to drive with the ball please! Hell he only need get to the free throw line before he is able to take off and slam it home. I'd like to say that I have ever before been frustrated with JT3 and absolutely love that he has come here and owe much of our recent success to him. He is a great coach and has finally given the Hoyas the challenging OOC schedule they need. I also admire his ability to continure to coach despite personal problems. I maybe be out of my mind right now because I'm finding it hard to point out its not bad at all that we only lost by 10 to the #10 team which has a great home-court advantage. Uh great defense today?
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Dec 9, 2005 0:13:08 GMT -5
A lot of people here and at the HB game watch tried to come up with a parallel between this game and a game last year. BC immediately came up b/c of the slow first half start. I'd only disagree with that in the sense that I felt in that game we were doing it to ourselves with turnovers, poor shot selection, and passive offense. I am much more willing to give credit to Illinois for our 1st half performance tonight--you could run a clinic on stopping GTown based on that. I read Bruce Weber set up some 3 on 3 drills in practice this week based on stopping what he saw from our offense last year. But it really wasn't even just stopping the cuts. It was the on-the-ball pressure that kept us from getting anything going. You just aren't gonna get the aggressive take it to the basket style from our guards, so when Illinois applies the pressure on the perimeter, you get Ashanti/Jon with back to basket retreating. Pressuring Roy with HIS back to the goal and handling results in a contested pass...again away from the basket. And though he overused his phrase, Lavin's point about "no window shopping" is well taken. No interior looks for Jeff and Roy in the first half b/c Illinois was having none of that, they weren't there. The UConn game last year also came up. Big first half deficit, true, but our second half run in that game convinced me we were in the game and playing in the same league, if you will. Increased the pressure D, got some run-outs, looked like we were dictating tempo. More aggressive on offense in the 2nd tonight sure, but never in control of the tempo. The defense needs to set that up, and it wasn't happening. Brent Musberger uses the "Out of Whack Stat" in his College FB telecasts. Tonight's of course would be that we held Illinois to 32.3% shooting for the game. Our zone in the first half looked very nice at times--a solid improvement also including the Oregon game. Open looks were far fewer than one would think, and though the talent level on Illinois is much different this year, the textbook kind of plays--the pick and roll, high screens for a decent part--weren't there this time. I personally would go with a different parallel game, for a narrower reason: Providence. Illinois tonight had the same number of offensive rebounds that Providence did against us last year--21. That means, of course, one every 2 minutes. Against Providence (when we were trading leads) and Illinois (trying to get within 8), we were always wanting a stop and not getting it b/c of the breakdowns. Play decent D, give up the cheapy. Tyler's Braswell-esque swipe attempt an example of the lack of discipline variety. The lack of defensive rebounding and example of...well, our continued lack of defensive rebounding. Over-aggressiveness from JG and RH a killer here--don't BOTH need to go for the block guys! Too often they're both in the air leaving the backside boarder unmolested (James Augustine, meet Randall Hanke). A confusing play at the end of the game--Augustine's final O putback. Roy and Jeff both go for the block. Tyler--cutting to basket where the ball ultimately falls, runs completely under the basket, almost out of bounds it seemed. Ball lands where he was standing. Confusing. The early deficit was a killer...as I often say in recaps, forces you to play perfectly--one mistake/breakdown always a killer (come to think of it, that was the theme of my UCONN recap last year, so maybe that game IS the best parallel). And those little breakdowns--not so little. Losing the man b/c of overaggressive mini-swipe or ball watching--Shane Foster, Dee Brown, the UI freshman--gonna hurt you. Failing to box out--gonna make the crowd scream curse words. A month until the Big East season--fitting that it starts against Providence, where the little flaws that turn into big problems manifested themselves so vividly last March. One day, a big victory--when was the last honestly? It'll come in time, but there's still much work to be done. Here's to it.
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Jack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by Jack on Dec 9, 2005 0:17:30 GMT -5
I choose to look at this game as the day Jeff Green remembered who he is. All the negatives are obvious, but I did not expect to win that game and I will comfort myself with the thought that the first half was the worst they can play all year, while the second half was not even close to the best they can play but was still enough to beat a Top 10 team on the road had it been sustained for 40 minutes.
Guard play will probably keep this team from ever being a legitimate threat for a conference title. College basketball is a guard's game and Georgetown has no guards who will be on any All-Conference teams, even honorable mention. Playing Villanova's four guard offense will be hard to watch.
I know those two paragraphs are mildly schizophrenic. Perhaps I will have better formed thoughts in the morning.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Dec 9, 2005 0:41:21 GMT -5
I don't disagree, Hoya5, that Roy didn't have a great game. But he was the only reason why Illinois absolutely didn't destroy us in the 1st 10-12 minutes. As bad as our offense was, we were somehow still within 8-10 pts for the majority of the first 10-12 minutes only because of Roy's blocks and intimidation down low. When Roy was taken out somewhere around the 8 minute mark, that's when Illinois blew the game open with 3 straight scores to push the lead to 25-9. That was a critical period in the game, one where we'd fight back (like the early 12-4 deficit at Oregon) or it'd go the other way and we'd essentially have to play perfect basketball the rest of the way to have a chance. And you can't criticize JT3 for taking Roy out; he did play 33 minutes and gave everything he had tonight.
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OldHoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by OldHoyafan on Dec 9, 2005 0:47:25 GMT -5
After all is said and done, this game will help the Hoyas recognize their weaknesses and prepare for the BE schedule alot more than playing the MEAC schools. I saw some glaring weaknesses in starting personnel and lack of execution in the motion offense in the first half. If JT3 is the teacher I think he is , this game will provide him with a lot to work with. I don't want to knock Wallace because he is a good kid, but JT3 should have given Sapp,Crawford,Edgerson the majorityof his minutes, because he looked intimidated tonight. I don't remember him taking but 2 or 3 treys,and his one drive to the basket was weak and it got snuffed. By the way I loved the way Big Roy grabbed the rebound, brought the ball to his chest and spread his elbows about the same height as their guards heads. Big Roy did not have to worry about another guard trying to strip the ball from him after a rebound for the rest of the game. It sent a message. I hope Bowman and Green show that same aggresiveness in the future. Remember we are Georgetown.
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Post by ][-][ 0 `/ /-\ 5 on Dec 9, 2005 0:49:21 GMT -5
I don't disagree, Hoya5, that Roy didn't have a great game. But he was the only reason why Illinois absolutely didn't destroy us in the 1st 10-12 minutes. As bad as our offense was, we were somehow still within 8-10 pts for the majority of the first 10-12 minutes only because of Roy's blocks and intimidation down low. When Roy was taken out somewhere around the 8 minute mark, that's when Illinois blew the game open with 3 straight scores to push the lead to 25-9. That was a critical period in the game, one where we'd fight back (like the early 12-4 deficit at Oregon) or it'd go the other way and we'd essentially have to play perfect basketball the rest of the way to have a chance. And you can't criticize JT3 for taking Roy out; he did play 33 minutes and gave everything he had tonight. Completely agree that Roy kept us in the game early. Roy will always be a defensive prescence. Always. By standing in the paint he will disruptt countless plays. If anything Roy played too much. As helpful as he is both offensively and defensively so far this year it seems he can't sustain 30+ minutes of intensity. It seems "everything he had" runs a little low when he plays longer than hes used to. I don't think I complained about taking Roy out but if I did then I was wrong.
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Dec 9, 2005 0:52:16 GMT -5
We defienetly need better guard play and better motion on offense. i was happy that we finally had a back door layup but where are the cuts? People need to be moving constantly (well ot constantly but a lot more than they are now) and getting open. Drive, cut, penetrate something. Still very optimistic. I only see us losing 6 more games top obviosuly duke, Uconn, Nova and i'm giving us three other possible losses in the BE cause you never know what can happen in BE play.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Dec 9, 2005 0:52:58 GMT -5
No you didn't, and I agree I would have like to play Roy a little less. But the fact was, when he wasn't in the game, we suffered, and unlike guys like Sapp/Egerson who we KNOW can be just as if not more effective than Wallace, we don't have a big guy on the bench who we can have confidence in to step in for Roy when he does get tired. A lot of people are calling for Spann to get minutes, and I'm not going to sit here and speculate that he's not a hard worker or anything like that, but there has to be reason why he's not even coming close to seeing the court, and I have to give JT3 the benefit of the doubt in that case.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 9, 2005 1:01:01 GMT -5
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SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by SirSaxa on Dec 9, 2005 2:03:08 GMT -5
I choose to look at this game as the day Jeff Green remembered who he is. That is EXACTLY what I was thinking. It is the one major plus out of this one. Let's hope he makes it worthwhile by continuing that level of play for the rest of the season.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 9, 2005 2:08:57 GMT -5
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 9, 2005 2:30:47 GMT -5
I agree with most of the points here and I'm not trying to make excuses, but I think 007 will back me up here when I say that the refereeing was horrible. It wasn't what lost us the game, but there were a number of ridiculous calls / no calls that went against us. My working theory is that when it's obvious that a ref made a horrible call, the network won't show the replay (unless it's under review). There were at least 5-10 plays where everyone wanted to know why a call was made / wasn't made and the announcers ignored it and there was no replay.
And again, I'm not making excuses--I agree that we didn't play well enough to win this game, but I also think that those refs were just plain horrible.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 9, 2005 2:32:35 GMT -5
It's too bad the refs did not box out well enough on the defensive boards.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Dec 9, 2005 4:21:23 GMT -5
Looking at the box score, I see we commited less than 10 turnovers (9) for the first time this season. We also had more assists (11) than turnovers for the first time this season. I'm not sure if we ever did that last season. Turnovers were something I felt we needed to improve on, so I'm pleased with that. Unfortunately, offensive rebounds also produce extra possessions for an opponent, so our low number of TOs became a non-factor.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Dec 9, 2005 5:37:16 GMT -5
Ok, I just finished my paper - now its time for my rant:
1) THE OFFENSE: Your playing a team thats over committing on the man to man and is playing it all the way up to the half court circle. Well good news we theoretically play a motion offense with lots of cutters. Right? Wrong. Apparently this year's Pricetown offense involves looking for Roy for about 10 seconds, finally realizing that the entry pass to Roy is being denied, throwing the ball around in a linear way (THERE WAS NEVER A SKIP PASS THE ENTIRE GAME - THATS 6th GRADE LEVEL FUNDAMENTALS), 3 to 4 of the players will not move until there are 8 seconds left on the clock, then with 5 seconds left it apparently becomes a game of "who can take the worst shot in the half court offense" - this year Brandon has a commanding lead. A team that runs the Princeton offense is supposed to see an opponent that runs an over-committing man to man as easy points - apparently we don't like running our base offense anymore ... At first I thought it was hesitation or early season rust but this is just sloppy basketball - when we're not playing a team that will finish in the bottom half of their conference we've looked lacklustre, sluggish, and at times down right terrible. Oh and apparently teams have learned about the screen right in front of the 3 point shooter play - so maybe that one can be given a rest - we only tried to run it about 8 times before we realized it was getting denied every time.
2) REBOUNDING - Rebounding is something that you do well because you are sound fundamentally, in position, disciplined, and have the will to do it - therefore its no surprise that we were outrebounded tonight. It is just rediculous that a front line that's 6'9, 6'10, and 7'2 gets taken to the cleaners on the boards. We are not boxing out, putting a body in position for the weakside rebound, and following our shots on the offensive end - and that will KILL us against quality opponents.
3) DEFENSE - IF THE ZONE WORKS STICK WITH IT! - The zone has proved very effective for rebounding and stopping dribble penetration - why the hell didn't we stick with it? If the zone was working why do we suddenly drop it everytime someone hits a 3? They scored the vast majority of their points when we were in the man-to-man because some players (BRANDON and ASHANTI - 4 YEAR STARTERS) apparently haven't figured out how to get around a screen or communicate on the court. It was sickening watching Illinois screen wait for Georgetown's defense to loose an assignment - usually BB or AC's man and then he would drain a wide open jumper. The number of uncontested jumpers and lay ups in this game was staggering.
4) WHAT THE HELL WAS OUR GAME PLAN? - Its really hard to tell what we wanted to do in this game - we never played one defense consistantly, our offense had all the beauty and consistancy of a pick-up game at Yates, and the majority of the team didn't seem to care or be able to do anything about it.
5) We said that we'd need a surprise player to step up amongst the freshmen to give us some depth - no one has done that yet and that's worrying. I think that if things continue this way Sapp and Love won't actually be seeing much of the court in BE play. Is the class of 2009 recruiting class a loss? or is it just a big disappointment thus far?
6) This was a terrible game for the program. I can't think of any worse possible scenario for the program with so much hype coming into the season to perform so terribly in the first half in our first nationally televised game. Sure we came back in the second half - but after the first half WHO WOULDN'T HAVE CHANGED THE CHANNEL?
7) What has happened to Crawford? He's not really getting into games that much anymore and he seems to have moved down in terms of minutes, points, rebounds, and also in the rotation at guard.
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Eurostar
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Post by Eurostar on Dec 9, 2005 6:31:21 GMT -5
to whoever said brandon needed to get less minutes: well he did, only 21. and wallace only had 22. looking at the stat line for the first time today, as DanMcQ said, the key is 21 offensive rebounds and a +13 rebounding margin for Illinois. In fact, if they had the same amount of O boards as we did (9), the rebounding margin would have been virtually even. we needed roy for those 33 minutes tonight because no one wanted to box out or grab rebounds aggressively, and roy had to do it by just being way taller than anyone else. he also changed a lot of shots while he was in which was key because they were getting by our guards all night.
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