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Post by professorhoya on Dec 19, 2023 7:48:19 GMT -5
Gminski managed to combine being a complete bore while rooting for the ACC team. Impressive combo for someone with so little to work with. Was that G man? Whoever was announcing had trouble putting sentences together or speaking coherently.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 19, 2023 7:56:21 GMT -5
Great win and clutch late game execution against the great Micah Shrewsberry.
I could tell the game was going to overtime given the 2:25 DVR runtime but wasn’t sure on the outcome.
We had this game and then late game breakdowns happened. Brumbaugh not protecting the ball and also getting too fancy, Massoud and cook missing easy bunnies but didn’t fold in overtime.
Quality win against a power 5 team with a great coach like Micah Shrewesbeery we are supposed to lose to.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Dec 19, 2023 9:49:07 GMT -5
I’m going to make some heads explode but I’m not sure we are a better team with Epps then without him. We look more cohesive when he’s not out there. His advanced numbers don’t paint a pretty picture. Yes we need him this year because of depth. He’s really a perfect 6th man that if he’s hot you let him cook. I just don’t think that’s a role he will ever accept in college. The teams ceiling in games is higher with him for sure. Problem is he’s such a negative if he’s not on fire. His turnovers and defense are that bad. He makes the floor of the team much lower when he’s not on. He’s the type of player that derails pretty good teams each year. He played a very large part in it for Illinois last year. Illinois abandoned a small lead guard this year and is so much better off. He’s going to make this throw away season much more fun to watch which is all we can ask for. I just hope he doesn’t derail much more talented and well constructed teams in the future. Actually this is a really accurate take.I only differ in I just want Epps to move to the 2 beside Brumbaugh. A Kemba Walker role would be perfect for Epps.
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traversb
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Post by traversb on Dec 19, 2023 10:17:23 GMT -5
I’m going to make some heads explode but I’m not sure we are a better team with Epps then without him. We look more cohesive when he’s not out there. His advanced numbers don’t paint a pretty picture. Yes we need him this year because of depth. He’s really a perfect 6th man that if he’s hot you let him cook. I just don’t think that’s a role he will ever accept in college. The teams ceiling in games is higher with him for sure. Problem is he’s such a negative if he’s not on fire. His turnovers and defense are that bad. He makes the floor of the team much lower when he’s not on. He’s the type of player that derails pretty good teams each year. He played a very large part in it for Illinois last year. Illinois abandoned a small lead guard this year and is so much better off. He’s going to make this throw away season much more fun to watch which is all we can ask for. I just hope he doesn’t derail much more talented and well constructed teams in the future. His advanced numbers show he's the best player on the team. You can cherry pick awful stats mixed in But he's the biggest net positive on the team from a metrics standpoint. barttorvik.com/team.php?team=Georgetown&year=2024Scroll to bottom of page for individual players. I don’t like PRPG as it’s basically an offense usage metric. If that’s all you care about then he’s going to rank well. I’m more concerned about how the team performs on both ends when he’s on the court. In a perfect world he scores 20+ points and goes pro making room for a more balanced transfer 2 guard to come in for the next couple years.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Dec 19, 2023 10:55:44 GMT -5
His advanced numbers show he's the best player on the team. You can cherry pick awful stats mixed in But he's the biggest net positive on the team from a metrics standpoint. barttorvik.com/team.php?team=Georgetown&year=2024Scroll to bottom of page for individual players. I don’t like PRPG as it’s basically an offense usage metric. If that’s all you care about then he’s going to rank well. I’m more concerned about how the team performs on both ends when he’s on the court. In a perfect world he scores 20+ points and goes pro making room for a more balanced transfer 2 guard to come in for the next couple years. You can filter by defensive rating. You'd find out he's basically rated the exact same as Styles on that end of the court. So I guess he's useless too.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 19, 2023 11:02:11 GMT -5
His advanced numbers show he's the best player on the team. You can cherry pick awful stats mixed in But he's the biggest net positive on the team from a metrics standpoint. barttorvik.com/team.php?team=Georgetown&year=2024Scroll to bottom of page for individual players. I don’t like PRPG as it’s basically an offense usage metric. If that’s all you care about then he’s going to rank well. I’m more concerned about how the team performs on both ends when he’s on the court. In a perfect world he scores 20+ points and goes pro making room for a more balanced transfer 2 guard to come in for the next couple years. On offense, there is absolutely no doubt we are better with Epps. With Epps on the floor, the team scores 1.16 points per possession. When he's off, the team scores 1.05. On the defensive end, we give up 1.08 points per possession when he's on the floor, and .949 points per possession when he's off. So arguably, the defense is better without Epps, but the offense is inarguably better with him. This is not limited to Epps. Our team is one of extremes in the sense that most of our better offensive players aren't as good on defense, and our good defensive players aren't as good on offense. So, it's a series of tradeoffs. Brumbaugh is actually a good example of this. Our offense is actually much better when he's on the bench, scoring 1.17 points per possession when he's not playing, but 1.08 when he's playing. But, the defense is much better when Brumbaugh plays--giving up only .996 points per possesion when he plays, but when he's off the court our defense gives up 1.10 points per possesion. Massoud is much the same. We give up only .995 points per possesion on defense when he plays, compared to 1.07 when he doesn't play. Which is kind of funny, because everybody thinks of Massoud as an offense minded guy, yet the offense is more efficient without him, yet defense much better when he does play.
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traversb
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Post by traversb on Dec 19, 2023 11:22:22 GMT -5
I don’t like PRPG as it’s basically an offense usage metric. If that’s all you care about then he’s going to rank well. I’m more concerned about how the team performs on both ends when he’s on the court. In a perfect world he scores 20+ points and goes pro making room for a more balanced transfer 2 guard to come in for the next couple years. You can filter by defensive rating. You'd find out he's basically rated the exact same as Styles on that end of the court. So I guess he's useless too. Yes you are correct Styles is a terrible defender as well. That played out at UNC too which is why he barely saw the floor. Neither guy is useless they just aren't players that lead to sustained winning in college basketball. Bristol is a better player than Styles. I would hope most people would agree based on what we have seen this year. Most fans get enamored with just flashy offensive play and base which players are good based on it. In college basketball I would rather have a better defensive team than offensive team if I was trying to win games. If you want to predict which teams are most likely to get upset in March a good thing to look at is teams who's offense is way better than their defense. If I am just trying to be entertained give me players like Epps all day. He's made what would've been a boring year incredibly entertaining. The team is much different with him. We are worse offensively and better defensively. If Torvik is your go to look at the game scores in the last 2. Very average but much more consistent than the games with Epps and overall higher (56.5 - 47.4) than the games with Epps in albeit a low sample size. The range of outcomes with Epps is about as high as it gets. Without him things are much more steady but I think over a full season of a team that's competitive you want the steadiness.
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traversb
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Post by traversb on Dec 19, 2023 11:28:15 GMT -5
I don’t like PRPG as it’s basically an offense usage metric. If that’s all you care about then he’s going to rank well. I’m more concerned about how the team performs on both ends when he’s on the court. In a perfect world he scores 20+ points and goes pro making room for a more balanced transfer 2 guard to come in for the next couple years. On offense, there is absolutely no doubt we are better with Epps. With Epps on the floor, the team scores 1.16 points per possession. When he's off, the team scores 1.05. On the defensive end, we give up 1.08 points per possession when he's on the floor, and .949 points per possession when he's off. So arguably, the defense is better without Epps, but the offense is inarguably better with him. This is not limited to Epps. Our team is one of extremes in the sense that most of our better offensive players aren't as good on defense, and our good defensive players aren't as good on offense. So, it's a series of tradeoffs. Brumbaugh is actually a good example of this. Our offense is actually much better when he's on the bench, scoring 1.17 points per possession when he's not playing, but 1.08 when he's playing. But, the defense is much better when Brumbaugh plays--giving up only .996 points per possesion when he plays, but when he's off the court our defense gives up 1.10 points per possesion. Massoud is much the same. We give up only .995 points per possesion on defense when he plays, compared to 1.07 when he doesn't play. Which is kind of funny, because everybody thinks of Massoud as an offense minded guy, yet the offense is more efficient without him, yet defense much better when he does play. Agreed and I typed out my reply below before seeing your post but the thoughts are still the same. I would rather save .1 on defense than gain .08 on offense in the case of Epps if winning is the goal. If it's going to be a hopeless season give me the guy that leads to more scoring on both ends which is what Epps does. It's also why I think Epps would be a great 6th man. Let him come in against backups and if he is cooking ride him. In those situations his bad defense/turnovers/rebounding doesn't matter. That could mean some games he get 30 minutes and some nights 10. He showed at Illinois once giving the leash he doesn't like it being taken back in so it would never work now. I think if you give Brad Underwood truth serum he is fine that he decided to leave. As a coach having a player like Epps would be quite frustrating.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 19, 2023 11:44:25 GMT -5
If you subtract a lineup's O rating from D rating, that basically tells you if they're scoring more points than they are giving up.
Interestingly, our most used lineup (if you filter by minimum of 20 possession) is our worst: Epps, Heath, Brumbaugh, Styles, and Cook are -14.9. Next worst is Epps, Heath, Brumbaugh, Cook, Fielder at -12.8.
Our best lineup, by far, is Epps, Heath, Bristol, Styles, Fielder with 23.9+. Next best is Epps, Heath, Bristol, Styles, Cook for +17.9. Then Epps, Brumbaugh, Styles, Cook, Fielder for 14.2 (the lineup is interestingly putrid on offense, scoring only .964 points per posession, but it's excellent on defense and only gives up .822 points per possesion on defense).
An interesting way to look at it. But to me, it's a pretty big deal that our most used lineup is our worst when it comes to O/D efficiency differential.
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traversb
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Post by traversb on Dec 19, 2023 11:49:24 GMT -5
I’m going to make some heads explode but I’m not sure we are a better team with Epps then without him. We look more cohesive when he’s not out there. His advanced numbers don’t paint a pretty picture. Yes we need him this year because of depth. He’s really a perfect 6th man that if he’s hot you let him cook. I just don’t think that’s a role he will ever accept in college. The teams ceiling in games is higher with him for sure. Problem is he’s such a negative if he’s not on fire. His turnovers and defense are that bad. He makes the floor of the team much lower when he’s not on. He’s the type of player that derails pretty good teams each year. He played a very large part in it for Illinois last year. Illinois abandoned a small lead guard this year and is so much better off. He’s going to make this throw away season much more fun to watch which is all we can ask for. I just hope he doesn’t derail much more talented and well constructed teams in the future. Actually this is a really accurate take.I only differ in I just want Epps to move to the 2 beside Brumbaugh. A Kemba Walker role would be perfect for Epps. I just don't see a backcourt of Epps and Brumbaugh being able to defend and rebound enough to be a great team. Kemba was a much better defender and rebounder than Epps but I get why you made the comparison. Hopefully Epps sophomore and junior year play out like Kemba's where the Sophomore year is a dumpster fire. The junior year we get in as a middling Big East team and he goes full scorch for a couple weeks and we get a title. I don't see if but we can all dream.
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traversb
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Post by traversb on Dec 19, 2023 12:04:38 GMT -5
If you subtract a lineup's O rating from D rating, that basically tells you if they're scoring more points than they are giving up. Interestingly, our most used lineup (if you filter by minimum of 20 possession) is our worst: Epps, Heath, Brumbaugh, Styles, and Cook are -14.9. Next worst is Epps, Heath, Brumbaugh, Cook, Fielder at -12.8. Our best lineup, by far, is Epps, Heath, Bristol, Styles, Fielder with 23.9+. Next best is Epps, Heath, Bristol, Styles, Cook for +17.9. Then Epps, Brumbaugh, Styles, Cook, Fielder for 14.2 (the lineup is interestingly putrid on offense, scoring only .964 points per posession, but it's excellent on defense and only gives up .822 points per possesion on defense). An interesting way to look at it. But to me, it's a pretty big deal that our most used lineup is our worst when it comes to O/D efficiency differential. Even without looking at the numbers it was apparent to me that Heath is the best overall guard (though not great) and Bristol is the best overall wing. They are the best mix of defenders who also don't turn the ball over. Those two things are very important in college basketball so I would think the lineups with them do quite well overall. It's also no surprise the 3 guard lineups are awful. You can't have 2 guys that turn the ball over a ton and all are bad rebounders and expect success. Once Rowan stops turning the ball over so much things will get much better because that is what ultimately is holding him back. Hopefully as the season goes along and he gets more experience that improves. If I could only have one player next year I would choose Rowan over Epps as I see the path to him being a more winning player as more achievable. I know what players like Epps are and how it usually ends. It's as much mindset as anything.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 19, 2023 12:49:11 GMT -5
If you subtract a lineup's O rating from D rating, that basically tells you if they're scoring more points than they are giving up. Interestingly, our most used lineup (if you filter by minimum of 20 possession) is our worst: Epps, Heath, Brumbaugh, Styles, and Cook are -14.9. Next worst is Epps, Heath, Brumbaugh, Cook, Fielder at -12.8. Our best lineup, by far, is Epps, Heath, Bristol, Styles, Fielder with 23.9+. Next best is Epps, Heath, Bristol, Styles, Cook for +17.9. Then Epps, Brumbaugh, Styles, Cook, Fielder for 14.2 (the lineup is interestingly putrid on offense, scoring only .964 points per posession, but it's excellent on defense and only gives up .822 points per possesion on defense). An interesting way to look at it. But to me, it's a pretty big deal that our most used lineup is our worst when it comes to O/D efficiency differential. Welcome to some of the many issues with plus minus. The lineup that plays against opposing starters and plays more minutes against better opponents is our worst lineup? Not always a shock. More importantly, we're also way, way, way too early to even be using D Rating as a blunt tool; I get there's no good proxy for defense, but it isn't a good one. Even O Rating is pretty volatile at this point. Either way, no, the advanced metrics don't show that Epps is a poor player.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 19, 2023 12:58:10 GMT -5
Even without looking at the numbers it was apparent to me that Heath is the best overall guard (though not great) and Bristol is the best overall wing. They are the best mix of defenders who also don't turn the ball over. Those two things are very important in college basketball so I would think the lineups with them do quite well overall. It's also no surprise the 3 guard lineups are awful. You can't have 2 guys that turn the ball over a ton and all are bad rebounders and expect success. Once Rowan stops turning the ball over so much things will get much better because that is what ultimately is holding him back. Hopefully as the season goes along and he gets more experience that improves. If I could only have one player next year I would choose Rowan over Epps as I see the path to him being a more winning player as more achievable. I know what players like Epps are and how it usually ends. It's as much mindset as anything. If you think Jay Heath is a good or active defender, I don't know what to tell you. I think you are watching a completely different game. The guy loses his man more than any other player out there, and can't stay in front of anyone. I'll give allowance for turf toe, but you're telling me you think he's a good defender right now ... I think you need to rewatch games. Bristol right now is fine. I think people like his overexuberance and ignore the fact that he fouls a ton, which is not good defense. I don't think Epps is anything like Primo Spears. I do think that Rowan does a better job of getting everyone involved, but we're not going to be facing Notre Dame all the time; more athletic teams require someone who can create something. But let's remember that Primo Spears had a 96 O Rating last year using 27% of possessions. I get the competition has been lighter, but Epps has a 107 and is shooting 41% from 3 on 29%. That's a massive gap in effectiveness. Spears was taking a ton of shots and not delivering; Epps is taking a ton of shots and is right at the team offensive rating. And despite the angst, his assist % and TO Rate aren't far off from Primo (better assist, worse TO). And Epps' TO rate is better than Rowan's right now. Rowan's smart, but better teams are going to pressure his handle and it's not good enough yet.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 19, 2023 14:12:22 GMT -5
If you subtract a lineup's O rating from D rating, that basically tells you if they're scoring more points than they are giving up. Interestingly, our most used lineup (if you filter by minimum of 20 possession) is our worst: Epps, Heath, Brumbaugh, Styles, and Cook are -14.9. Next worst is Epps, Heath, Brumbaugh, Cook, Fielder at -12.8. Our best lineup, by far, is Epps, Heath, Bristol, Styles, Fielder with 23.9+. Next best is Epps, Heath, Bristol, Styles, Cook for +17.9. Then Epps, Brumbaugh, Styles, Cook, Fielder for 14.2 (the lineup is interestingly putrid on offense, scoring only .964 points per posession, but it's excellent on defense and only gives up .822 points per possesion on defense). An interesting way to look at it. But to me, it's a pretty big deal that our most used lineup is our worst when it comes to O/D efficiency differential. Welcome to some of the many issues with plus minus. The lineup that plays against opposing starters and plays more minutes against better opponents is our worst lineup? Not always a shock. More importantly, we're also way, way, way too early to even be using D Rating as a blunt tool; I get there's no good proxy for defense, but it isn't a good one. Even O Rating is pretty volatile at this point. Either way, no, the advanced metrics don't show that Epps is a poor player. Yes, and I think you know this already, but to be clear, this is not a plus/minus of guys on the floor and off. Rather, this is taking the Offensive Efficiency of a lineup and subtracting the Defensive Efficiency, which should tell you whether the lineup is a net positive (i.e., does that lineup score more points than it gives up)? I agree these are small sample sizes, it's too early to know exactly how this will shake out, these stats are largely against underwhelming opponents, and defensive efficiency isn't the best stat to begin with. So, one definitely has to take it with a grain of salt, but I think it is still instructive, and in some ways it's all we have. PS. In classic +/- the Epps, Heath, Brumbaugh, Styles, and Cook is -14. But that lineup has only been used in 5 games, actually. Likely in part because of the various illnesses/injuries.
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traversb
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Post by traversb on Dec 19, 2023 14:25:56 GMT -5
Even without looking at the numbers it was apparent to me that Heath is the best overall guard (though not great) and Bristol is the best overall wing. They are the best mix of defenders who also don't turn the ball over. Those two things are very important in college basketball so I would think the lineups with them do quite well overall. It's also no surprise the 3 guard lineups are awful. You can't have 2 guys that turn the ball over a ton and all are bad rebounders and expect success. Once Rowan stops turning the ball over so much things will get much better because that is what ultimately is holding him back. Hopefully as the season goes along and he gets more experience that improves. If I could only have one player next year I would choose Rowan over Epps as I see the path to him being a more winning player as more achievable. I know what players like Epps are and how it usually ends. It's as much mindset as anything. If you think Jay Heath is a good or active defender, I don't know what to tell you. I think you are watching a completely different game. The guy loses his man more than any other player out there, and can't stay in front of anyone. I'll give allowance for turf toe, but you're telling me you think he's a good defender right now ... I think you need to rewatch games. Bristol right now is fine. I think people like his overexuberance and ignore the fact that he fouls a ton, which is not good defense. I don't think Epps is anything like Primo Spears. I do think that Rowan does a better job of getting everyone involved, but we're not going to be facing Notre Dame all the time; more athletic teams require someone who can create something. But let's remember that Primo Spears had a 96 O Rating last year using 27% of possessions. I get the competition has been lighter, but Epps has a 107 and is shooting 41% from 3 on 29%. That's a massive gap in effectiveness. Spears was taking a ton of shots and not delivering; Epps is taking a ton of shots and is right at the team offensive rating. And despite the angst, his assist % and TO Rate aren't far off from Primo (better assist, worse TO). And Epps' TO rate is better than Rowan's right now. Rowan's smart, but better teams are going to pressure his handle and it's not good enough yet. I don't think Heath is a good defender. He's a below average defender. He's a better defender than Epps. Rowan is better than both and is a capable defender. Heath's strength is that he doesn't kill you on D and doesn't turn the ball over. If Epps and Heath is your backcourt it's going to be bad defensively. Rowan and Heath can get by but is better will never be confused as good. All 3 is a disaster. As for Wayne and fouls, I wish Epps would foul more than give up the easy buckets. In most cases you will find the best defenders to have the higher foul rates. Houston plays at about the same pace as us and fouls at a much higher rate yet has the best defense in the country. If you look at Cooley's Providence teams that had good defense they tended to foul at a much higher rate than his teams that didn't. I'm not saying constantly fouling is good but it usually shows more effort and the being tighter to players. The saying they can't call them all usually rings true. Especially in college were refs are so bad and it always seems like they are trying to keep foul calls close so being more aggressive on defense is better than not. I think Epps mentality is if I foul I could get pulled and he values offense more than defense. If you told me Cooley told him to be less aggressive because of depth problems I would give him some slack except I saw same thing from him last year. I think there is this misconception that you need dynamic play makers to score in college. That is the case in the NBA. In college a good coach with a cohesive offensive system can get you open shots. Having a guard that can beat his man off the dribble is certainly helpful but not an absolute must. If the guard that can beat his man doesn't have a high basketball IQ then it doesn't do a lot of good. I don't even think Epps is dynamic but he's been a good to great shot maker this year although its been inconsistent. Epps is certainly better than Primo and that's not close. Not sure who brought up that comparison but it wasn't me. Being better than Primo doesn't necessarily make you a winning basketball player.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Dec 19, 2023 14:46:06 GMT -5
If you think Jay Heath is a good or active defender, I don't know what to tell you. I think you are watching a completely different game. The guy loses his man more than any other player out there, and can't stay in front of anyone. I'll give allowance for turf toe, but you're telling me you think he's a good defender right now ... I think you need to rewatch games. Bristol right now is fine. I think people like his overexuberance and ignore the fact that he fouls a ton, which is not good defense. I don't think Epps is anything like Primo Spears. I do think that Rowan does a better job of getting everyone involved, but we're not going to be facing Notre Dame all the time; more athletic teams require someone who can create something. But let's remember that Primo Spears had a 96 O Rating last year using 27% of possessions. I get the competition has been lighter, but Epps has a 107 and is shooting 41% from 3 on 29%. That's a massive gap in effectiveness. Spears was taking a ton of shots and not delivering; Epps is taking a ton of shots and is right at the team offensive rating. And despite the angst, his assist % and TO Rate aren't far off from Primo (better assist, worse TO). And Epps' TO rate is better than Rowan's right now. Rowan's smart, but better teams are going to pressure his handle and it's not good enough yet. I don't think Heath is a good defender. He's a below average defender. He's a better defender than Epps. Rowan is better than both and is a capable defender. Heath's strength is that he doesn't kill you on D and doesn't turn the ball over. If Epps and Heath is your backcourt it's going to be bad defensively. Rowan and Heath can get by but is better will never be confused as good. All 3 is a disaster. As for Wayne and fouls, I wish Epps would foul more than give up the easy buckets. In most cases you will find the best defenders to have the higher foul rates. Houston plays at about the same pace as us and fouls at a much higher rate yet has the best defense in the country. If you look at Cooley's Providence teams that had good defense they tended to foul at a much higher rate than his teams that didn't. I'm not saying constantly fouling is good but it usually shows more effort and the being tighter to players. The saying they can't call them all usually rings true. Especially in college were refs are so bad and it always seems like they are trying to keep foul calls close so being more aggressive on defense is better than not. I think Epps mentality is if I foul I could get pulled and he values offense more than defense. If you told me Cooley told him to be less aggressive because of depth problems I would give him some slack except I saw same thing from him last year. I think there is this misconception that you need dynamic play makers to score in college. That is the case in the NBA. In college a good coach with a cohesive offensive system can get you open shots. Having a guard that can beat his man off the dribble is certainly helpful but not an absolute must. If the guard that can beat his man doesn't have a high basketball IQ then it doesn't do a lot of good. I don't even think Epps is dynamic but he's been a good to great shot maker this year although its been inconsistent. Epps is certainly better than Primo and that's not close. Not sure who brought up that comparison but it wasn't me. Being better than Primo doesn't necessarily make you a winning basketball player. At the end of the day your take is that the team would be better off without the current leading scorer in the conference. It's an awful take. Full stop.
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bigskyhoya
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Post by bigskyhoya on Dec 19, 2023 15:02:12 GMT -5
I don't think Heath is a good defender. He's a below average defender. He's a better defender than Epps. Rowan is better than both and is a capable defender. Heath's strength is that he doesn't kill you on D and doesn't turn the ball over. If Epps and Heath is your backcourt it's going to be bad defensively. Rowan and Heath can get by but is better will never be confused as good. All 3 is a disaster. As for Wayne and fouls, I wish Epps would foul more than give up the easy buckets. In most cases you will find the best defenders to have the higher foul rates. Houston plays at about the same pace as us and fouls at a much higher rate yet has the best defense in the country. If you look at Cooley's Providence teams that had good defense they tended to foul at a much higher rate than his teams that didn't. I'm not saying constantly fouling is good but it usually shows more effort and the being tighter to players. The saying they can't call them all usually rings true. Especially in college were refs are so bad and it always seems like they are trying to keep foul calls close so being more aggressive on defense is better than not. I think Epps mentality is if I foul I could get pulled and he values offense more than defense. If you told me Cooley told him to be less aggressive because of depth problems I would give him some slack except I saw same thing from him last year. I think there is this misconception that you need dynamic play makers to score in college. That is the case in the NBA. In college a good coach with a cohesive offensive system can get you open shots. Having a guard that can beat his man off the dribble is certainly helpful but not an absolute must. If the guard that can beat his man doesn't have a high basketball IQ then it doesn't do a lot of good. I don't even think Epps is dynamic but he's been a good to great shot maker this year although its been inconsistent. Epps is certainly better than Primo and that's not close. Not sure who brought up that comparison but it wasn't me. Being better than Primo doesn't necessarily make you a winning basketball player. At the end of the day your take is that the team would be better of without the current leading scorer in the conference. It's an awful take. Full stop. When you put it that way... Yes, we need Epps in the lineup. Among other things, he is one of the only players on the team who can win a close one at the end of a game.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 19, 2023 15:21:12 GMT -5
I don't think Heath is a good defender. He's a below average defender. He's a better defender than Epps. Rowan is better than both and is a capable defender. Heath's strength is that he doesn't kill you on D and doesn't turn the ball over. If Epps and Heath is your backcourt it's going to be bad defensively. Rowan and Heath can get by but is better will never be confused as good. All 3 is a disaster. As for Wayne and fouls, I wish Epps would foul more than give up the easy buckets. In most cases you will find the best defenders to have the higher foul rates. Houston plays at about the same pace as us and fouls at a much higher rate yet has the best defense in the country. If you look at Cooley's Providence teams that had good defense they tended to foul at a much higher rate than his teams that didn't. I'm not saying constantly fouling is good but it usually shows more effort and the being tighter to players. The saying they can't call them all usually rings true. Especially in college were refs are so bad and it always seems like they are trying to keep foul calls close so being more aggressive on defense is better than not. I think Epps mentality is if I foul I could get pulled and he values offense more than defense. If you told me Cooley told him to be less aggressive because of depth problems I would give him some slack except I saw same thing from him last year. I think there is this misconception that you need dynamic play makers to score in college. That is the case in the NBA. In college a good coach with a cohesive offensive system can get you open shots. Having a guard that can beat his man off the dribble is certainly helpful but not an absolute must. If the guard that can beat his man doesn't have a high basketball IQ then it doesn't do a lot of good. I don't even think Epps is dynamic but he's been a good to great shot maker this year although its been inconsistent. Epps is certainly better than Primo and that's not close. Not sure who brought up that comparison but it wasn't me. Being better than Primo doesn't necessarily make you a winning basketball player. At the end of the day your take is that the team would be better of without the current leading scorer in the conference. It's an awful take. Full stop. I am not sure on what basis he is saying Heath is better on defense, either. Simply from the eye test, I don't think either of them are particularly good defenders. Both of them bring pretty good offensive efficiency to the team when they are on the Court, but neither of them have good defensive advanced stats (in fact, Heath is slightly worse). The offense with Epps is much better than without him. While Heath is pretty efficient, our team has actually been better on offense when he's off the court than on. Epps, I think, is an overall better player though because Epps can create his own offense when needed; Heath generally cannot. Among our main guards (Heath, Epps, Brumbaugh), Brumbaugh is by far the best defender of the bunch. Neither Epps nor Heath are good defenders.
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,508
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Post by bostonfan on Dec 19, 2023 16:11:10 GMT -5
At the end of the day your take is that the team would be better of without the current leading scorer in the conference. It's an awful take. Full stop. I am not sure on what basis he is saying Heath is better on defense, either. Simply from the eye test, I don't think either of them are particularly good defenders. Both of them bring pretty good offensive efficiency to the team when they are on the Court, but neither of them have good defensive advanced stats (in fact, Heath is slightly worse). The offense with Epps is much better than without him. While Heath is pretty efficient, our team has actually been better on offense when he's off the court than on. Epps, I think, is an overall better player though because Epps can create his own offense when needed; Heath generally cannot. Among our main guards (Heath, Epps, Brumbaugh), Brumbaugh is by far the best defender of the bunch. Neither Epps nor Heath are good defenders. I don't think anyone on this years' team would be called an elite defender. Probably the closest we have is Bristol, but he fouls way too much. At the same point, I think the defense this year is quite a bit better than the last few years, when we had constant mental lapses and gave up a bunch of wide open shots pretty much every game (outside of the BET run). The entire team seems much more committed to playing team defense and stays more engaged for the entire possessions than it has for years. We just don't have the athletes that can play really elite man to man defense at this point. While I think the defense needs to improve, I still like our defense more this year than the last few years!!!
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,781
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 19, 2023 16:38:46 GMT -5
I don't think Heath is a good defender. He's a below average defender. He's a better defender than Epps. Rowan is better than both and is a capable defender. Heath's strength is that he doesn't kill you on D and doesn't turn the ball over. If Epps and Heath is your backcourt it's going to be bad defensively. Rowan and Heath can get by but is better will never be confused as good. All 3 is a disaster. I don't really agree with this. Rowan is a smart defender, but right now people just score over him even if he's in position. Epps isn't great but he can use his strength. Both will get steals. Heath should be better but between the turf toe and his mental lapses -- and there are a lot -- he's a terrible defender right now. And he's in his last year -- looking for big improvement here isn't coming. This isn't untrue, but Bristol fouls too much and too frequently for a perimeter player not a rim protector. You can't be a 4+ fouls/40. And the problem is that a number of them are dumb/fake hustle fouls -- he's being aggressive but it's not the kind that actually yields good results. Those are over the top. That said, he's not the defensive issue; it's just that he's reducing his defensive value with it. You can score, but without guys who can score one on one -- and that includes post play -- you become very easy to shut down when playing better teams. Diverse offenses are good offenses, and if they only way you generate shots is player movement, you're in trouble. Just like if dribble driving was your only way. Cooley can create shots, and we have shooters. But if Epps isn't there, that's pretty much it. There's no post play. Rare offensive rebounding. The break is a disaster and we don't defend well enough to care. This will change with time but for this year, Epps is incredibly valuable. I think you are seeing what you want to see. There's a TON of winning players with Epps' playing style profile. I don't think it's the BEST style for PG, nor do I think he's an elite player. But he's a much more willing passer than you make him out to be, and I don't see any evidence he's uncoachable. It's pretty clear that heat checks are okay under Cooley, for example -- just look at Ish Massoud. Primo was Primo not because he was terrible or of bad character ... it's because that's the only way he was any good. I think it was far less mindset than skillset. You're painting Epps as the (much worse) college version of Russell Westbrook or something. And I'd say -- I'm not quite sure how you get there after a few games, AND guess what, this team can use it anyway.
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