hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,207
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Post by hoya9797 on Dec 17, 2023 15:54:51 GMT -5
Notre Dame is not an awful team! As a matter of fact, I would say we are evenly matched, in the same place as far as development goes. With the coaching—both coaches seem like excellent coaches—I believe both teams can make a run this year. Notre Dame’ coach was definitely disappointed in his team’s performance. Which tells me he has very high expectations for this year. ND is horrible. And, their basketball team is bad, too.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,457
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Post by TC on Dec 17, 2023 17:24:25 GMT -5
Always better to win and like others very pleased with Brum and Fielder. But that ND team is awful. We are really bad, but I’m not sure they have a single player who starts for us. Just let that sink in. And don’t tell me the little dude. I love his heart. But he is aggressively average. That team is truly hideous. Notre Dame was a better basketball team than Georgetown last year (11-21, KenPom 166), they hired Shrewsberry - who reportedly was our second choice, and they took pretty much the same strategy that we did in terms of portal / recruiting - they have the #21 2024 class coming in. And we beat them on their home floor without our top scorer and our freshman made a huge leap in doing so. To me, that says a lot about the direction of our program and how we're doing pretty well comparatively to other programs in the same situation (ND, California). The programs that went all in on year 1 (WVU, St. John's, Ole Miss) don't look like they are going to make the tournament and have expectations issues.
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astrohoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 303
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Post by astrohoya on Dec 17, 2023 17:36:47 GMT -5
Both GTown and Notre Dame are awful right now compared to peer schools, without question. Both, as was pointed out, just made coaching changes from a similar point, and both can be optimistic (I am). But Both teams are currently awful in the context of major college teams.
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Post by hsaxon on Dec 17, 2023 18:40:04 GMT -5
Since ND only posted their side of the presser we will likely never know. EtomicB should be all over this one! It's a huge miss by SID and has been for years. I'm too giddy over the win today & seeing the game Fielder had to go on a rant about the off-court folks @ Gtown. Plus I promised hoyasaxa2003 that I would table that discussion until the off-season, you're right however it is an inexcusable miss. You would think the basketball SID would have instructions to put all of EC's pressers on a GU website. That would be too simple, perhaps.
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Post by hsaxon on Dec 17, 2023 18:41:52 GMT -5
We aren't beating a BE team that isn't DePaul if Epps isn't back...and even then we need Epps to play more off the ball with Rowan running the team. We are absolutely stealing some BE games. We're going to have a couple of games where we shoot the lights out and win a game that we have no business taking. Yes, Epps off the ball.
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Post by hsaxon on Dec 17, 2023 18:42:41 GMT -5
Hoya Saxa!!! Great to see Fielder get comfortable and confident, needs to work on details on defense to avoid fouls, but really nice showing. 16 points and 4-5 from three and perfect at the free throw line. Rowan making buckets was a nice addition. Turnovers not great, but had some good passes and stayed lower than Epps rather high turnover rate. His lack off steals is a bit unusual. A return to solid free through shooting helped, with 6-6. Styles only sat one minute and helped on many fronts with a quiet 10 points. Ish was 50% from three and often deep three, but also has a lot of mental lapses. His two steals helped and inside defense helps, but looses his man outside a bit too often. Cook's limited minutes hurt due to fouls, but nine rebounds in limited minutes was good to see. It is nice to see this team keep making continual improvements, for the most part. We were fortunate to win.
A big win nonetheless.
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Post by hsaxon on Dec 17, 2023 18:43:36 GMT -5
Have game recorded, did not watch. But couldn't avoid text chain from Hoya friends about the ending. Funny to scroll the last 3 pages of this thread. Road game, arguably best player to date not playing, against a coach that some wanted over Cooley and you would have thought a SpaceX rocket had exploded on the launch pad. Gotta love HoyaTalk Fortunate to win.
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 17, 2023 18:45:21 GMT -5
Both GTown and Notre Dame are awful right now compared to peer schools, without question. Both, as was pointed out, just made coaching changes from a similar point, and both can be optimistic (I am). But Both teams are currently awful in the context of major college teams. I get the team can't be seen as being good. They may even be a little bad. But "awful" to me is a team like DePaul. This team has only had one bad loss (Holy Cross). It SHOULD have beaten TCU. Granted the Rutgers showing wasn't highly impressive and Syracuse pulled away from us comfortably in the last ten minutes. But in both of those games Georgetown did something it can not afford to do this season if expecting to beat a high major: shoot very poorly, especially from the three. Since these Hoyas can't bully anyone in the interior it has to shoot well to beat high major squads. What we are about to learn is whether shooting badly is going to be a result of the team having off nights or is it more about how well the other teams plays defense. If its the former then there are going to be games in which the Hoyas unexpectedly win or put a huge scare into better teams thanks to its ability to have multiple shooters on the floor making shots. If its the latter then the Hoyas will have to wait for some teams to not put in the work defensively during the remainder of the season which won't likely happen that many times. But getting back to my original point, many of us before the season began would have gladly accepted or expected the team going 7-4 at this stage. So I suspect the major measurement that leads to people calling these Hoyas awful is because their margins of victories against the lesser teams were unimpressive. That's entirely fair. But I feel that their shooting potential gives them a REALISTIC weapon that could put them more on an even footing when facing better opponents.
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
Posts: 9,427
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Post by MCIGuy on Dec 17, 2023 18:48:17 GMT -5
Have game recorded, did not watch. But couldn't avoid text chain from Hoya friends about the ending. Funny to scroll the last 3 pages of this thread. Road game, arguably best player to date not playing, against a coach that some wanted over Cooley and you would have thought a SpaceX rocket had exploded on the launch pad. Gotta love HoyaTalk Fortunate to win. The players made the plays down the stretch to win the game without any bail out by the refs. They were owed that fortunate win after that most unfortunate loss to TCU. You wanna trade results for both games?
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astrohoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 303
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Post by astrohoya on Dec 17, 2023 19:07:44 GMT -5
Both GTown and Notre Dame are awful right now compared to peer schools, without question. Both, as was pointed out, just made coaching changes from a similar point, and both can be optimistic (I am). But Both teams are currently awful in the context of major college teams. I get the team can't be seen as being good. They may even be a little bad. But "awful" to me is a team like DePaul. This team has only had one bad loss (Holy Cross). It SHOULD have beaten TCU. Granted the Rutgers showing wasn't highly impressive and Syracuse pulled away from us comfortably in the last ten minutes. But in both of those games Georgetown did something it can not afford to do this season if expecting to beat a high major: shoot very poorly, especially from the three. Since these Hoyas can't bully anyone in the interior it has to shoot well to beat high major squads. What we are about to learn is whether shooting badly is going to be a result of the team having off nights or is it more about how well the other teams plays defense. If its the former then there are going to be games in which the Hoyas unexpectedly win or put a huge scare into better teams thanks to its ability to have multiple shooters on the floor making shots. If its the latter then the Hoyas will have to wait for some teams to not put in the work defensively during the remainder of the season which won't likely happen that many times. But getting back to my original point, many of us before the season began would have gladly accepted or expected the team going 7-4 at this stage. So I suspect the major measurement that leads to people calling these Hoyas awful is because their margins of victories against the lesser teams were unimpressive. That's entirely fair. But I feel that their shooting potential gives them a REALISTIC weapon that could put them more on an even footing when facing better opponents. We are objectively awful but still doing okay relative to expectations for this year. Both things can be true, and I think both are. I otherwise agree with everything you say, except losing to Syracuse badly at home is objectively a bad loss, even if it’s not a bad loss relative to our expectations.
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jackofjoy
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 237
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Post by jackofjoy on Dec 17, 2023 21:12:58 GMT -5
I get the team can't be seen as being good. They may even be a little bad. But "awful" to me is a team like DePaul. This team has only had one bad loss (Holy Cross). It SHOULD have beaten TCU. Granted the Rutgers showing wasn't highly impressive and Syracuse pulled away from us comfortably in the last ten minutes. But in both of those games Georgetown did something it can not afford to do this season if expecting to beat a high major: shoot very poorly, especially from the three. Since these Hoyas can't bully anyone in the interior it has to shoot well to beat high major squads. What we are about to learn is whether shooting badly is going to be a result of the team having off nights or is it more about how well the other teams plays defense. If its the former then there are going to be games in which the Hoyas unexpectedly win or put a huge scare into better teams thanks to its ability to have multiple shooters on the floor making shots. If its the latter then the Hoyas will have to wait for some teams to not put in the work defensively during the remainder of the season which won't likely happen that many times. But getting back to my original point, many of us before the season began would have gladly accepted or expected the team going 7-4 at this stage. So I suspect the major measurement that leads to people calling these Hoyas awful is because their margins of victories against the lesser teams were unimpressive. That's entirely fair. But I feel that their shooting potential gives them a REALISTIC weapon that could put them more on an even footing when facing better opponents. We are objectively awful but still doing okay relative to expectations for this year. Both things can be true, and I think both are. I otherwise agree with everything you say, except losing to Syracuse badly at home is objectively a bad loss, even if it’s not a bad loss relative to our expectations. I know the players don’t pay attention to the content of boards like HoyaTalk - they realize it’s a bunch of armchair quarterbacks reading legal briefs in spaghetti stained Vineyard Vines in their moms basements - but damn if this fan base isn’t great for creating bulletin board material for its own team.
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bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by bostonfan on Dec 18, 2023 8:29:30 GMT -5
Both GTown and Notre Dame are awful right now compared to peer schools, without question. Both, as was pointed out, just made coaching changes from a similar point, and both can be optimistic (I am). But Both teams are currently awful in the context of major college teams. I would not say either team is awful. I agree that neither team is a tournament team (not even NIT in my opinion), but not awful. The players on both teams are all 3-4 star recruits and can make plays. Both teams use some younger players and need to continue to grow, but awful is a little strong.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,358
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Post by calhoya on Dec 18, 2023 9:03:37 GMT -5
I would say that the Hoyas are currently a "bad" team, but one that has a decent upside. While the results have been underwhelming and the play very erratic, you can certainly see that these kids have the talent and the potential to improve. Just have to bring some more focus to avoid the mindless TOs, and to learn the defense better, and to avoid bad shots. It's going to be a frustrating year, but I still expect to see a better product on the floor in February than we have now.
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Post by BeantownHoya on Dec 18, 2023 9:39:23 GMT -5
I would say that the Hoyas are currently a "bad" team, but one that has a decent upside. While the results have been underwhelming and the play very erratic, you can certainly see that these kids have the talent and the potential to improve. Just have to bring some more focus to avoid the mindless TOs, and to learn the defense better, and to avoid bad shots. It's going to be a frustrating year, but I still expect to see a better product on the floor in February than we have now. To the results piece that TCU game...just from a record perception standpoint plain sucks... Then we are talking about an 8-3 team...winners of 7 of 8...a quality win...etc...still really tough to swallow... Not saying we beat murderers row, Holy Cross lost still is inexcusable but that one game feels almost like the difference between an OOC everyone can feel decent about versus "eh just ok" I'm not bitter at all...
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,605
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Post by guru on Dec 18, 2023 11:00:15 GMT -5
I would say that the Hoyas are currently a "bad" team, but one that has a decent upside. While the results have been underwhelming and the play very erratic, you can certainly see that these kids have the talent and the potential to improve. Just have to bring some more focus to avoid the mindless TOs, and to learn the defense better, and to avoid bad shots. It's going to be a frustrating year, but I still expect to see a better product on the floor in February than we have now. To the results piece that TCU game...just from a record perception standpoint plain sucks... Then we are talking about an 8-3 team...winners of 7 of 8...a quality win...etc...still really tough to swallow... Not saying we beat murderers row, Holy Cross lost still is inexcusable but that one game feels almost like the difference between an OOC everyone can feel decent about versus "eh just ok" I'm not bitter at all... Well, a home loss to the 353rd ranked KenPom team (out of 362) tends to put a damper on things. Maybe if we balance it out with a win against a top 10 team, the bad taste would fade ha
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Dec 18, 2023 11:30:32 GMT -5
After the OOC, the perfect case scenario would have been 9-2. Figure out a way against HC and get the right call against TCU and there we are. By the same token, we got lucky against American & Merrimack so we probably are fine just were we are at. A W on the road without your top scorer is impressive, even if ND stinks.
This gives me more hope against the middle of the pack BE teams (St. Johns, Seton Hall, Providence, Xavier & Nova). It doesn't change my perspective on Depaul which has to be a sweep. Uconn, Marq & Creighton I just don't see us beating even though all of those teams have had a close contest that was unexpected (maybe not UConn). Butler is a wildcard for me. I haven't seen them play. They changed over their entire roster too so no idea who is on their team outside of Alexander since we saw him at St. Johns. Tuesday should be really interesting.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 18, 2023 18:05:50 GMT -5
Since ND only posted their side of the presser we will likely never know. EtomicB should be all over this one! It's a huge miss by SID and has been for years. I'm too giddy over the win today & seeing the game Fielder had to go on a rant about the off-court folks @ Gtown. Plus I promised hoyasaxa2003 that I would table that discussion until the off-season, you're right however it is an inexcusable miss. EtomicB, tabling notwithstanding, I agree that all press conferences should be made available for all games. This seems like a pretty straightforward thing to do. I would have liked to hear what Cooley had to say about the game. For example, Fielder had a very good game, but then was absent from the final stretch and OT. Why? There had to be a reason but we'll never know, I guess.
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thedragon
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by thedragon on Dec 18, 2023 19:49:46 GMT -5
I'm too giddy over the win today & seeing the game Fielder had to go on a rant about the off-court folks @ Gtown. Plus I promised hoyasaxa2003 that I would table that discussion until the off-season, you're right however it is an inexcusable miss. EtomicB, tabling notwithstanding, I agree that all press conferences should be made available for all games. This seems like a pretty straightforward thing to do. I would have liked to hear what Cooley had to say about the game. For example, Fielder had a very good game, but then was absent from the final stretch and OT. Why? There had to be a reason but we'll never know, I guess. Less than zero chance that question even would get asked. Hoyas have zero coverage from a beat on the road. Unless an ND reporter was insightful those kind of questions don't see the light of day. If nothing else, Cooley would be wise to push for a part-time freelance (even if just for GuHoyas site) to travel on the road to cover the team. I realize this is a pipe dream for a program spending 10s of millions to find 30k a season to hire a Bobby Bancroft to go on 10 road trips a season - but these are the little things good programs do. Or get good enough where they don't have to because it pays for other publications to budget the money to send people.
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traversb
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by traversb on Dec 18, 2023 20:48:33 GMT -5
I’m going to make some heads explode but I’m not sure we are a better team with Epps then without him. We look more cohesive when he’s not out there. His advanced numbers don’t paint a pretty picture. Yes we need him this year because of depth. He’s really a perfect 6th man that if he’s hot you let him cook. I just don’t think that’s a role he will ever accept in college. The teams ceiling in games is higher with him for sure. Problem is he’s such a negative if he’s not on fire. His turnovers and defense are that bad. He makes the floor of the team much lower when he’s not on. He’s the type of player that derails pretty good teams each year. He played a very large part in it for Illinois last year. Illinois abandoned a small lead guard this year and is so much better off.
He’s going to make this throw away season much more fun to watch which is all we can ask for. I just hope he doesn’t derail much more talented and well constructed teams in the future.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Dec 18, 2023 21:45:09 GMT -5
I’m going to make some heads explode but I’m not sure we are a better team with Epps then without him. We look more cohesive when he’s not out there. His advanced numbers don’t paint a pretty picture. Yes we need him this year because of depth. He’s really a perfect 6th man that if he’s hot you let him cook. I just don’t think that’s a role he will ever accept in college. The teams ceiling in games is higher with him for sure. Problem is he’s such a negative if he’s not on fire. His turnovers and defense are that bad. He makes the floor of the team much lower when he’s not on. He’s the type of player that derails pretty good teams each year. He played a very large part in it for Illinois last year. Illinois abandoned a small lead guard this year and is so much better off. He’s going to make this throw away season much more fun to watch which is all we can ask for. I just hope he doesn’t derail much more talented and well constructed teams in the future. His advanced numbers show he's the best player on the team. You can cherry pick awful stats mixed in But he's the biggest net positive on the team from a metrics standpoint. barttorvik.com/team.php?team=Georgetown&year=2024Scroll to bottom of page for individual players.
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