drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Dec 29, 2023 11:12:16 GMT -5
Great additions BUT we really need a playmaking guard a la Kolek. Agree that there has to be someone out there in the portal.
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kettlehill
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Post by kettlehill on Dec 29, 2023 14:40:48 GMT -5
Great additions BUT we really need a playmaking guard a la Kolek. Agree that there has to be someone out there in the portal. Before you dismiss Brumbaugh's ability to lead the Hoyas next year ( and beyond ), I urge you to check out your boy Kolek's stats for his first year in the BE. Remarkably similar to Brumbaughs: Kolek averaged 6.7 ppg on 32% from the field and 27% from 3. Yes, Kolek averaged 5.9 assists to Rowans 3.0, but most of his numbers were no better or worse than Rowans. Brumbaugh was rated significantly higher than Kolek coming out of High School. My point is Tyler Kolek didn't "arrive" until his second year in the BE, the same year that Marquette arrived ( remember they were picked 8th or 9th pre-season ). This is going to be a tough year for all the Hoyas, but nothing is better prep for the future than real game experience in the Big East. With the terrific group coming in and this years core of Brumbaugh, Epps and Styles with a year of BE wars under there belts, who knows?
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Dec 29, 2023 15:14:16 GMT -5
Great additions BUT we really need a playmaking guard a la Kolek. Agree that there has to be someone out there in the portal. Before you dismiss Brumbaugh's ability to lead the Hoyas next year ( and beyond ), I urge you to check out your boy Kolek's stats for his first year in the BE. Remarkably similar to Brumbaughs: Kolek averaged 6.7 ppg on 32% from the field and 27% from 3. Yes, Kolek averaged 5.9 assists to Rowans 3.0, but most of his numbers were no better or worse than Rowans. Brumbaugh was rated significantly higher than Kolek coming out of High School. My point is Tyler Kolek didn't "arrive" until his second year in the BE, the same year that Marquette arrived ( remember they were picked 8th or 9th pre-season ). This is going to be a tough year for all the Hoyas, but nothing is better prep for the future than real game experience in the Big East. With the terrific group coming in and this years core of Brumbaugh, Epps and Styles with a year of BE wars under there belts, who knows? I have looked at those same stats. There is no guarantee that Rowan will become Kolek or even an average version of him, but the idea that you can find fully developed players to come in and solve all our problems seems naive. Enjoyable narratives have a rising action in which the conflict is resolved. The development and growth of the players is the rising action of the college basketball narrative…at least for me. Speaking of which, my wife always gets very upset at the beginning of movies when there is a highly unsatisfactory situation in which the protagonist finds himself/herself. Despite her expertise in writing, she consistently fails to see that the joy of the resolving the conflict in the narrative is affected by how unsatisfactory the situation in the exposition is. Hopefully, this Hoya Men’s Basketball narrative will pay off this extended period of darkness someday soon for all of us Hoya fans.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 29, 2023 15:26:10 GMT -5
Great additions BUT we really need a playmaking guard a la Kolek. Agree that there has to be someone out there in the portal. Before you dismiss Brumbaugh's ability to lead the Hoyas next year ( and beyond ), I urge you to check out your boy Kolek's stats for his first year in the BE. Remarkably similar to Brumbaughs: Kolek averaged 6.7 ppg on 32% from the field and 27% from 3. Yes, Kolek averaged 5.9 assists to Rowans 3.0, but most of his numbers were no better or worse than Rowans. Brumbaugh was rated significantly higher than Kolek coming out of High School. My point is Tyler Kolek didn't "arrive" until his second year in the BE, the same year that Marquette arrived ( remember they were picked 8th or 9th pre-season ). This is going to be a tough year for all the Hoyas, but nothing is better prep for the future than real game experience in the Big East. With the terrific group coming in and this years core of Brumbaugh, Epps and Styles with a year of BE wars under there belts, who knows? This is a valid argument if someone says that Brumbaugh can't become a good player. But there's lots of guys who average what Tyler Kolek did and very few become Tyler Kolek. I like Brumbaugh. But this team desperately needs a reliable PG and I don't know why anyone would gamble on Brumbaugh's improvement instead of trying to shore up the position.
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kghoya
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The Future
Dec 29, 2023 16:25:09 GMT -5
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Post by kghoya on Dec 29, 2023 16:25:09 GMT -5
Comparing a player that was redshirted vs a player that was a conf frosh of the year doesn't really seem apples to apples
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TC
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Post by TC on Dec 29, 2023 17:39:30 GMT -5
Comparing a player that was redshirted vs a player that was a conf frosh of the year doesn't really seem apples to apples "Conference Freshmen of the Year" in the A-10 is a way different thing than conference freshmen of the year in the Big East where Stephon Castle is going to go lottery in the 2024 draft vs. transfer up a conference like Kolek and spend 3 more years playing in NCAA. If we're comparing ages though - Kolek (3/27/01) was a full calendar year older than Rowan (3/7/04) in his first year in the Big East, and yet .... Brumbaugh (age 19) 2023-2024 : .437 eFG%, 6.8 TRB%, 24.2 AST%, 24.0 TOV%, 3.5 STL% Kolek (age 20) 2021-2022 : .400 eFG%, 6.8 TRB%, 34.0 AST%, 24.6 TOV%, 2.6 STL% I'm not sure Brumbaugh will ever match Kolek's assists totals, but Kolek turned the ball over more his first year in the Big East and improved quite a bit. I agree with SFHoya99 that adding a veteran PG through the portal makes this team much, much better next year, but I also think Rowan is going to be really, really good.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Dec 29, 2023 18:01:13 GMT -5
My goodness. I know nothing about Rutgers Prep. But he went beast mode.
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Dec 29, 2023 19:41:38 GMT -5
My goodness. I know nothing about Rutgers Prep. But he went beast mode. All I know about them is they used to put up over 100 points on my public high school team, we were so bad it was hilarious.
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guru
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The Future
Dec 29, 2023 20:45:28 GMT -5
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Post by guru on Dec 29, 2023 20:45:28 GMT -5
Before you dismiss Brumbaugh's ability to lead the Hoyas next year ( and beyond ), I urge you to check out your boy Kolek's stats for his first year in the BE. Remarkably similar to Brumbaughs: Kolek averaged 6.7 ppg on 32% from the field and 27% from 3. Yes, Kolek averaged 5.9 assists to Rowans 3.0, but most of his numbers were no better or worse than Rowans. Brumbaugh was rated significantly higher than Kolek coming out of High School. My point is Tyler Kolek didn't "arrive" until his second year in the BE, the same year that Marquette arrived ( remember they were picked 8th or 9th pre-season ). This is going to be a tough year for all the Hoyas, but nothing is better prep for the future than real game experience in the Big East. With the terrific group coming in and this years core of Brumbaugh, Epps and Styles with a year of BE wars under there belts, who knows? This is a valid argument if someone says that Brumbaugh can't become a good player. But there's lots of guys who average what Tyler Kolek did and very few become Tyler Kolek. I like Brumbaugh. But this team desperately needs a reliable PG and I don't know why anyone would gamble on Brumbaugh's improvement instead of trying to shore up the position. Rowan is a good kid, but he’s literally out of his league. We can hope for a huge leap at some point, but from visual evidence only those wearing the rosiest of rose-colored glasses see him as the answer at PG for this team.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 29, 2023 22:56:28 GMT -5
My goodness. I know nothing about Rutgers Prep. But he went beast mode.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Dec 29, 2023 22:58:03 GMT -5
It’s ridiculously early to give up on Rowan.
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kettlehill
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Post by kettlehill on Dec 29, 2023 23:35:10 GMT -5
It’s ridiculously early to give up on Rowan. My thoughts exactly; let's see where the kid is at the end of the season.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 30, 2023 2:06:26 GMT -5
Comparing a player that was redshirted vs a player that was a conf frosh of the year doesn't really seem apples to apples "Conference Freshmen of the Year" in the A-10 is a way different thing than conference freshmen of the year in the Big East where Stephon Castle is going to go lottery in the 2024 draft vs. transfer up a conference like Kolek and spend 3 more years playing in NCAA. If we're comparing ages though - Kolek (3/27/01) was a full calendar year older than Rowan (3/7/04) in his first year in the Big East, and yet .... Brumbaugh (age 19) 2023-2024 : .437 eFG%, 6.8 TRB%, 24.2 AST%, 24.0 TOV%, 3.5 STL% Kolek (age 20) 2021-2022 : .400 eFG%, 6.8 TRB%, 34.0 AST%, 24.6 TOV%, 2.6 STL% I'm not sure Brumbaugh will ever match Kolek's assists totals, but Kolek turned the ball over more his first year in the Big East and improved quite a bit. I agree with SFHoya99 that adding a veteran PG through the portal makes this team much, much better next year, but I also think Rowan is going to be really, really good. I want Brumbaugh to succeed as much as anyone but you shouldn't compare the stats from RB's 12-game(353 OOC SOS) start to Kolek's 32-game season that included a full season of BE games as a way of making a case for him. RB has plenty of games left to gain experience & improve this season.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Dec 30, 2023 7:25:51 GMT -5
Why does every discussion around PG turn into a discussion of Tyler Kolek? He’s the reigning BE player of the year, not the floor for an adequate BE starter at PG. Of course I’d love for the Hoyas to have a player of his caliber, whether that’s Brumbaugh developing or a new player joining via high school or portal. But on the continuum of PG play there’s a wide swath of “acceptable to compete in the BE” between where we are now and Tyler Kolek.
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Omega
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Post by Omega on Dec 30, 2023 7:32:30 GMT -5
Why does every discussion around PG turn into a discussion of Tyler Kolek? He’s the reigning BE player of the year, not the floor for an adequate BE starter at PG. Of course I’d love for the Hoyas to have a player of his caliber, whether that’s Brumbaugh developing or a new player joining via high school or portal. But on the continuum of PG play there’s a wide swath of “acceptable to compete in the BE” between where we are now and Tyler Kolek. On our wish list let's hope for a mediocre point guard??? I don't know about others, but my wish list contains the best of everything...
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Dec 30, 2023 7:53:06 GMT -5
Sadly it's December and the most active thread on the Board is discussing "The Future." Not much reason to be optimistic about the rest of this season, but I still hope for significant progress. Wins may be out of reach for the most part, but consistent effort and progress by all the players is not. No more horrendous TOs, an offense that utilizes ball movement and some evidence that the coaching staff can improve this group on both ends of the court. Don't agree with those who think mass transfers are not likely. Kids at this level want to play, get some exposure and win. Right now we are offering only one of those options to the players. I am not convinced that the two transfer rule survives in any meaningful way.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 30, 2023 8:01:19 GMT -5
Sadly it's December and the most active thread on the Board is discussing "The Future." Not much reason to be optimistic about the rest of this season, but I still hope for significant progress. Wins may be out of reach for the most part, but consistent effort and progress by all the players is not. No more horrendous TOs, an offense that utilizes ball movement and some evidence that the coaching staff can improve this group on both ends of the court. Don't agree with those who think mass transfers are not likely. Kids at this level want to play, get some exposure and win. Right now we are offering only one of those options to the players. I am not convinced that the two transfer rule survives in any meaningful way. Agree. I want to see our players not standing still on offense and defense, and players more engaged. I want what Cooley promised as the program’s staples. Those are two fundamentals that will help change the culture for future seasons. Whatever it’s going to do with the two-transfer rule for the 2024-25 season, the NCAA will have to announce it soon so everyone is on the same page before this season ends.
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3xhoya
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Post by 3xhoya on Dec 30, 2023 10:01:32 GMT -5
Why does every discussion around PG turn into a discussion of Tyler Kolek? He’s the reigning BE player of the year, not the floor for an adequate BE starter at PG. Of course I’d love for the Hoyas to have a player of his caliber, whether that’s Brumbaugh developing or a new player joining via high school or portal. But on the continuum of PG play there’s a wide swath of “acceptable to compete in the BE” between where we are now and Tyler Kolek. Tyler Kolek would be the best PG the Hoyas have had since 1996. II understand we all want arguably the best player in the Big East but to pretend we can just pluck a player of that caliber easily is foolhardy. In that case we also need a center so we should definitely be looking for someone at least as good as Clingan or Sanogo.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Dec 30, 2023 11:28:47 GMT -5
Great additions BUT we really need a playmaking guard a la Kolek. Agree that there has to be someone out there in the portal. Before you dismiss Brumbaugh's ability to lead the Hoyas next year ( and beyond ), I urge you to check out your boy Kolek's stats for his first year in the BE. Remarkably similar to Brumbaughs: Kolek averaged 6.7 ppg on 32% from the field and 27% from 3. Yes, Kolek averaged 5.9 assists to Rowans 3.0, but most of his numbers were no better or worse than Rowans. Brumbaugh was rated significantly higher than Kolek coming out of High School. My point is Tyler Kolek didn't "arrive" until his second year in the BE, the same year that Marquette arrived ( remember they were picked 8th or 9th pre-season ). This is going to be a tough year for all the Hoyas, but nothing is better prep for the future than real game experience in the Big East. With the terrific group coming in and this years core of Brumbaugh, Epps and Styles with a year of BE wars under there belts, who knows? Hey I've been a Brumbaugh fan since I saw him at Kenner last summer. And yes I expect him to improve as the year(s) go on. And yes I predicted as Brumbaugh goes so do the Hoyas. But I never saw him as a playmaking pg rather I always envisioned him more as a small forward. And I hope that once we do get that playmaking pg (either thru the portal or recruitment) Rowan will be able to slide into the small forward slot that I think he is better suited for.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 30, 2023 15:17:39 GMT -5
Sadly it's December and the most active thread on the Board is discussing "The Future." Not much reason to be optimistic about the rest of this season, but I still hope for significant progress. Wins may be out of reach for the most part, but consistent effort and progress by all the players is not. No more horrendous TOs, an offense that utilizes ball movement and some evidence that the coaching staff can improve this group on both ends of the court. Don't agree with those who think mass transfers are not likely. Kids at this level want to play, get some exposure and win. Right now we are offering only one of those options to the players. I am not convinced that the two transfer rule survives in any meaningful way. Agree. I want to see our players not standing still on offense and defense, and players more engaged. I want what Cooley promised as the program’s staples. Those are two fundamentals that will help change the culture for future seasons. Whatever it’s going to do with the two-transfer rule for the 2024-25 season, the NCAA will have to announce it soon so everyone is on the same page before this season ends. Folks can talk about PG's all day long but the defense has to be the focus the remainder of the season. Gtown is #256 in AdjD which is 57 spots lower than DePaul's 199 ranking.
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