prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Oct 19, 2023 13:03:28 GMT -5
That’s an excuse, a talking point too many here fall back on. Instead of treating this new chapter as, well, a new chapter, people rather gripe as if they are reading the same disappointing book. Who moves on to a new novel by a new author and thinks to themselves “prove to me that this story won’t be just as horrid as the last three or four I read from the previous author”? If your post was directed to me, it is misguided. My reference to grumping is to what happened to our program in past seasons. I am optimistic about the future and not grumping about it. Where will Trump be in 2024?
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Oct 19, 2023 13:06:09 GMT -5
"I would not be surprised if the Georgetown Hoyas stole a spot in March Madness after a two-year hiatus, even though they have the conference’s lowest KenPom ranking at 159. Their most recent appearance came after winning the Big East Tournament as a No. 8 seed in 2021, but even if the automatic bid is not in reach, the Hoyas have the talent to secure their first at-large selection since 2015. Jay Heath, Wayne Bristol Jr. and Ryan Mutombo all stayed in Washington, DC amid the coaching change from Patrick Ewing to Ed Cooley, making up 21% of the team’s returning minutes and 26% of their scoring from 2022-23. Gone are Primo Spears and Brandon Murray, both of whom departed for Power 5 schools; in are University of North Carolina guard Dontrez Styles, University of Illinois guard Jayden Epps and All-MAAC Third Team selection Supreme Cook. Averaging a career-high 13.1 points as a junior, Cook covered both sides of the glass with the Fairfield Stags at 3.2 offensive rebounds and 5.2 defensive boards per game." dailycampus.com/2023/10/19/the-coleumn-could-the-big-east-conference-be-a-seven-bid-league/ That’s where I thought we would be with another front court body (Akok or other).
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Oct 19, 2023 15:54:33 GMT -5
I am hopeful that there is enough to work with the PG hero ball is not the answer. I am not interested in watching that. Come on. We didn't see Jayden Epps all summer, and in a scrimmage he puts up an insanely efficient 46 points. It'd be nice if we could all celebrate that it appears that there's a high ceiling here and save the comparisons to Primo Spears until there's an actual game you can see to criticize and grump about. I didn't criticize Epps. I didn't compare him to Primo. I didn't grump. I shared a hope that our style of play this season wasn't PG hero ball. I think that is reasonable.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Oct 19, 2023 17:02:36 GMT -5
Come on. We didn't see Jayden Epps all summer, and in a scrimmage he puts up an insanely efficient 46 points. It'd be nice if we could all celebrate that it appears that there's a high ceiling here and save the comparisons to Primo Spears until there's an actual game you can see to criticize and grump about. I didn't criticize Epps. I didn't compare him to Primo. I didn't grump. I shared a hope that our style of play this season wasn't PG hero ball. I think that is reasonable. I read it as grump. But to be fair, I (and I'm sure many others) am on edge itching for the season to start. It's been a loooooooooooong couple years around Gtown basketball. And this season, while I think most folks have reasonable expectations, there's also something that's been missing around here for quite a while...Hope. The momentum from a .500 conference season, a near miss tournament bid (and people b*tching about the OOC schedule 🤣), and some budding stars on the roster compared to a 4-16 bottom 2 BE team and the need to pray for a homerun in the portal and prayers that none of our recruits start looking around elsewhere, is a chasm where both sides are very reachable.
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MCIGuy
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Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Oct 19, 2023 17:03:43 GMT -5
That’s an excuse, a talking point too many here fall back on. Instead of treating this new chapter as, well, a new chapter, people rather gripe as if they are reading the same disappointing book. Who moves on to a new novel by a new author and thinks to themselves “prove to me that this story won’t be just as horrid as the last three or four I read from the previous author”? If your post was directed to me, it is misguided. My reference to grumping is to what happened to our program in past seasons. I am optimistic about the future and not grumping about it. It wasn't directed at you which is why I referenced "people" instead of you in particular. I was referring to the overall mood of this board.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Oct 19, 2023 17:24:12 GMT -5
I am hopeful that there is enough to work with the PG hero ball is not the answer. I am not interested in watching that. Come on. We didn't see Jayden Epps all summer, and in a scrimmage he puts up an insanely efficient 46 points. It'd be nice if we could all celebrate that it appears that there's a high ceiling here and save the comparisons to Primo Spears until there's an actual game you can see to criticize and grump about. There is hero ball, and then there is hero ball. What Primo Spears did (and Murray to a slightly lesser extent, and even Akinjo years ago) was take possession of the ball, and essentially "use" a significant amount of possessions because he just put his head down and took a shot, bad long two point jumper, etc. But there is nothing inherently wrong with a single player taking a lot of shots if he is really efficient. Spears was the antithesis of efficiency, as he shot horribly. For example, the report was that Epps went 15/24. That's hugely efficient, considering many of those shots were made threes. If Epps (or anyone else) made shots at that rate and with high frequency, we WANT that person to take a lot of shots. The problem with "hero ball"--at least as it was on display with Spears--was that he took a lot of shots and didn't make many of them. He was one of our least efficient players. If Epps can shoot a high percentage AND make a lot of shots, he absolutely should do that. I know he had the reputation of hogging the ball (and he did), but he did get a ton of assists, too. To use an example: last year, Spears took 26.6% of shots while he was on the floor (which was basically all the time). In 2013, Otto Porter took 25.5% of shots when he was on the floor. The main differences are (1) Porter made a ton of his shots; Spears did not, and (2) Primo was a ball handler, and so it was obvious when he was hogging the ball, whereas Porter didn't hog it, which impeded the flow less, and he just took and made shots.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Oct 19, 2023 18:58:57 GMT -5
Come on. We didn't see Jayden Epps all summer, and in a scrimmage he puts up an insanely efficient 46 points. It'd be nice if we could all celebrate that it appears that there's a high ceiling here and save the comparisons to Primo Spears until there's an actual game you can see to criticize and grump about. There is hero ball, and then there is hero ball. What Primo Spears did (and Murray to a slightly lesser extent, and even Akinjo years ago) was take possession of the ball, and essentially "use" a significant amount of possessions because he just put his head down and took a shot, bad long two point jumper, etc. But there is nothing inherently wrong with a single player taking a lot of shots if he is really efficient. Spears was the antithesis of efficiency, as he shot horribly. For example, the report was that Epps went 15/24. That's hugely efficient, considering many of those shots were made threes. If Epps (or anyone else) made shots at that rate and with high frequency, we WANT that person to take a lot of shots. The problem with "hero ball"--at least as it was on display with Spears--was that he took a lot of shots and didn't make many of them. He was one of our least efficient players. If Epps can shoot a high percentage AND make a lot of shots, he absolutely should do that. I know he had the reputation of hogging the ball (and he did), but he did get a ton of assists, too. To use an example: last year, Spears took 26.6% of shots while he was on the floor (which was basically all the time). In 2013, Otto Porter took 25.5% of shots when he was on the floor. The main differences are (1) Porter made a ton of his shots; Spears did not, and (2) Primo was a ball handler, and so it was obvious when he was hogging the ball, whereas Porter didn't hog it, which impeded the flow less, and he just took and made shots. I distinguish hero ball by position. When Otto Porter takes that percentage of shots, the ball is still moving. When a PG takes that percentage of shots, frequently the ball isn’t moving. See Primo and Akinjo. Iverson played hero ball as a PG at GU. Too often the players around him stood around and watched on offense…even Jerome Williams. I would prefer a PG who successfully involves and sets up the other players on the team to score even over a super-talented scorer. If a PG moves the ball and still takes a high percentage of shots efficiently, I am probably fine with it. Also, reports are that Epps was highly efficient in the game against Wake, but N=1. Let’s see this level of efficiency be representative of his overall population of shots for multiple games before we make any conclusions. Note that Primo was relatively efficient for the first 2 non-conference games last year too including 69% from the field in game 2. I hope that given Epps was 6 for 11 from 3 that many of those were catch and shoot 3s vs. pull-up 3s. If they were catch and shoot and that would be the result from ball movement.
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Oct 19, 2023 19:54:47 GMT -5
Primo created for himself to the exclusion of others. Sounds like Epps benefited from others helping create for him. Totally different scenarios
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Oct 19, 2023 20:19:39 GMT -5
Good looking group!
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Post by hoyaatheart55 on Oct 19, 2023 22:29:44 GMT -5
Folks I have tickets to the season opener, TCU, Syracuse, and Providence I have one more game to select and can’t decide which one to go to. I’d like to go AT LEAST 2-3 in the games I attend. Which other game should I pick? UConn? Johnnies? Marquette? Lots of great choices. When Coach Cooley puts us back on the map I’ll choose the UConn game lol. I decided to choose St. John’s. Hope the boys smash both of them and make me regret not going to the UConn game.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Oct 20, 2023 4:46:42 GMT -5
Primo created for himself to the exclusion of others. Sounds like Epps benefited from others helping create for him. Totally different scenarios I was going to say this. It's a difference between the PG creating for himself and the SG being fed the ball because he's on fire. In most cases the team won't suffer from 1 player catching fire and being fed multiple shots. I believe it was stated that Rowan was pretty much running the team.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Oct 20, 2023 9:58:38 GMT -5
Primo created for himself to the exclusion of others. Sounds like Epps benefited from others helping create for him. Totally different scenarios I was going to say this. It's a difference between the PG creating for himself and the SG being fed the ball because he's on fire. In most cases the team won't suffer from 1 player catching fire and being fed multiple shots. I believe it was stated that Rowan was pretty much running the team. What will be interesting is how all of this will work when Heath is back in the lineup. He's a high usage guy also, so I'm skeptical that he and Epps will work well in the backcourt together. Also, based on the video posted by the program this week, Epps calls himself a "point guard". I think the best thing for the program is for Brumbaugh to play PG, Epps shooting guard and Heath to come off the bench. But, looks like the coaching staff feels differently.
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bluegray79
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Post by bluegray79 on Oct 20, 2023 10:00:23 GMT -5
Zeke -- I love hearing that and hope it's true! That would bode well for us this season and seasons to follow. Rowan is one of a few players on the team that bring court vision and who looks to distribute above me-first thinking. I tellya, I think we're going to surprise a bunch of teams this year. Not saying a huge jump in wins or any tournaments predictions, but there's something about this group that I know I am going to really enjoy watch play. Let's go!!!!
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bluegray79
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Post by bluegray79 on Oct 20, 2023 16:24:03 GMT -5
This is a huge experience for these players and the group as a whole. I'm really happy to know they got dressed up and walked those halls, met Jeffries and others, and moved about as a team, getting exposure to that world and representing the university. I love that Cooley and staff made that happen. It was embarrassingly easy for me to spend 4 years on the Hilltop and not take advantage of all that D.C has to offer. I did some but wish I'd done more. Glad to be able to get down there a couple times a year and get around more. I can only imagine that it is doubly difficult for the athletes to find the time to get down to the Mall and kick around the city. These pics make me smile and happy for them.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Oct 20, 2023 18:14:03 GMT -5
What will be interesting is how all of this will work when Heath is back in the lineup. He's a high usage guy also, so I'm skeptical that he and Epps will work well in the backcourt together. Also, based on the video posted by the program this week, Epps calls himself a "point guard". I think the best thing for the program is for Brumbaugh to play PG, Epps shooting guard and Heath to come off the bench. But, looks like the coaching staff feels differently. What is your basis for saying Heath is a high usage guy? Throughout his career, his % Possessions (typically referenced as "usage") is not really high. His junior year it was 19.9, and last year 20. That's low compared to high usage guys like Primo Spears who had a usage was 27.1%. Epps last year was similar to Heath, 20.1. That's not very high. That said, I think Brumbaugh, Epps, and Heath (and Styles, maybe too) are all going to play a good bit. Our roster just isn't deep enough for anybody to sit on the bench unless that person is well behind everyone else.
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AvantGuardHoya
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Post by AvantGuardHoya on Oct 20, 2023 21:16:02 GMT -5
Has anybody else seen rumors re: Bryce Hopkins?
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Post by dariantownesvanzandt on Oct 20, 2023 21:17:27 GMT -5
Has anybody else seen rumors re: Bryce Hopkins? It's from a joke account.
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AvantGuardHoya
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Post by AvantGuardHoya on Oct 20, 2023 21:22:18 GMT -5
Thank you. I thought it was some BS.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Oct 21, 2023 4:53:29 GMT -5
Primo created for himself to the exclusion of others. Sounds like Epps benefited from others helping create for him. Totally different scenarios Not sure where you heard that Epps benefited from other helping create for him. I haven't seen that level of commentary anywhere. If Rowan is running the team and serving as primary ball handler, and Epps is scoring an efficient 46...(or even 15), I have no issues with Epps and will be a big fan..
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Oct 21, 2023 5:17:14 GMT -5
Primo created for himself to the exclusion of others. Sounds like Epps benefited from others helping create for him. Totally different scenarios Not sure where you heard that Epps benefited from other helping create for him. I haven't seen that level of commentary anywhere. If Rowan is running the team and serving as primary ball handler, and Epps is scoring an efficient 46...(or even 15), I have no issues with Epps and will be a big fan.. See 5th post on Page 3 of this thread, by MCI. He can discuss his sources if he wishes, but I will take his work re Rowan “racking up dimes.” Good luck v Pitt today guys, may the “secret” of the scrimmage be like a sieve.
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