Georgetown @ Providence 2/8/23 Discussion

[DanMcQ]

Time to cool down Cooley.

[1427hoya]

I hope they go easy on us

[Highsmith]

Let's have a "Switch Coaches Game" where we get Cooley and they get Ewing to see how the game turns out!

[professorhoya]

III was a lot more successful than Cooley at the NCAA to tourney level.

Yet you people chased III out of here with your pitchforks.
So its funny that you people are putting Cooley on a pedestal now.

Hoyaboya does have a point when he says Cooley hasn’t done anything at tournament level.

[Bigs"R"Us]

Feb 6, 2023 19:15:26 GMT -5 Highsmith said:

Let's have a "Switch Coaches Game" where we get Cooley and they get Ewing to see how the game turns out!

I don’t think we’d be 0-20 last year and 1-12 this year under Cooley.

[Highsmith]

Feb 6, 2023 21:24:13 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

III was a lot more successful than Cooley at the NCAA to tourney level.

Yet you people chased III out of here with your pitchforks.
So its funny that you people are putting Cooley on a pedestal now.

Hoyaboya does have a point when he says Cooley hasn’t done anything at tournament level.

III had success in the tournament....and then he didn't....and the results became embarrassing year after year (FGC, Ohio, etc.). Then those embarrassments started happening more and more in the regular season. Then the wins started disappearing and the embarrassing losses got even more common. Plus, recruiting dried up substantially. Those were the reasons III drew the ire of fans. Ewing has taken that situation and made it incomprehensibly worse. Cooley has taken a team with an entirely new starting 5 and turned it into a winner.....to suggest he (or any other competent coach in the country) might be able to do the same with our roster is as accurate as it is sad. Many coaches who performed like JTIII did his last 2 seasons would be fired, especially with the list of embarrassing tournament losses and despite the success early on.....ANY coach who performed like Ewing has would be fired and it is beyond embarrassing that it hasn't happened yet.

[CTHoya08]

Providence went to the Sweet Sixteen last year. JTIII hadn’t taken a team to the second weekend for a full decade at the time he was fired. Am I taking crazy pills here? In what world has Cooley done “nothing” in the tournament?

[daveg023]

Feb 6, 2023 21:24:13 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

III was a lot more successful than Cooley at the NCAA to tourney level.

Yet you people chased III out of here with your pitchforks.
So its funny that you people are putting Cooley on a pedestal now.

Hoyaboya does have a point when he says Cooley hasn’t done anything at tournament level.

So after vanishing for a few weeks as the losses piled up, with no ability to defend Ewing or the Thompson regime any longer, you’ve re-emerged to admonish the fanbase for pushing out JTIII, who never made it past the 2nd round of the NCAAT in his final 10 seasons, despite being a favorite in every game he played in, plus was the highest paid coach in the league?

Stick to your Neptune rhetoric, that’s at least more cogent right now…

[professorhoya]

Feb 7, 2023 7:41:31 GMT -5 CTHoya08 said:

Providence went to the Sweet Sixteen last year. JTIII hadn’t taken a team to the second weekend for a full decade at the time he was fired. Am I taking crazy pills here? In what world has Cooley done “nothing” in the tournament?

Ed Cooley has one sweet 16 in 17 years of head coaching and that came in year 16 of the Ed Cooley era.

III has a final four.

Weird that you are putting Ed Cooley on a pedestal when he really hasn’t done much compared to the guy you ran out of town.

I think I’ll take Hoyaboya and Hoyas2003 assessment over you people.

[professorhoya]

Feb 7, 2023 7:59:04 GMT -5 daveg023 said:

Feb 6, 2023 21:24:13 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

III was a lot more successful than Cooley at the NCAA to tourney level.

Yet you people chased III out of here with your pitchforks.
So its funny that you people are putting Cooley on a pedestal now.

Hoyaboya does have a point when he says Cooley hasn’t done anything at tournament level.

So after vanishing for a few weeks as the losses piled up, with no ability to defend Ewing or the Thompson regime any longer, you’ve re-emerged to admonish the fanbase for pushing out JTIII, who never made it past the 2nd round of the NCAAT in his final 10 seasons, despite being a favorite in every game he played in, plus was the highest paid coach in the league?

Stick to your Neptune rhetoric, that’s at least more cogent right now…

Oh I’m sorry I forgot you were there. You may go now.

[TC]

Feb 7, 2023 9:24:59 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

Feb 7, 2023 7:41:31 GMT -5 CTHoya08 said:

Providence went to the Sweet Sixteen last year. JTIII hadn’t taken a team to the second weekend for a full decade at the time he was fired. Am I taking crazy pills here? In what world has Cooley done “nothing” in the tournament?

Ed Cooley has one sweet 16 in 17 years of head coaching and that came in year 16 of the Ed Cooley era.

III has a final four.

Weird that you are putting Ed Cooley on a pedestal when he really hasn’t done much compared to the guy you ran out of town.

I don't care about tournament success. I care about a coach getting us to the tournament 2 or 3 times out of 4 with an at-large bid - I think that's something a good coach can control. After you get to the tournament, success is a crapshoot in terms of injuries, seeding, location, and who is hot at the right time.

Other than Pitino, Ed Cooley is probably the highest floor candidate we can find. He's already proven that he can get to the tournament from the Big East, in the last 11 years his worst year in the Big East yielded 7 conference wins.

Some of us want a high floor after being completely uncompetitive and an absolute embarrassment.

[hoyaboya]

[daveg023]

Feb 7, 2023 9:25:48 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

Feb 7, 2023 7:59:04 GMT -5 daveg023 said:

So after vanishing for a few weeks as the losses piled up, with no ability to defend Ewing or the Thompson regime any longer, you’ve re-emerged to admonish the fanbase for pushing out JTIII, who never made it past the 2nd round of the NCAAT in his final 10 seasons, despite being a favorite in every game he played in, plus was the highest paid coach in the league?

Stick to your Neptune rhetoric, that’s at least more cogent right now…

Oh I’m sorry I forgot you were there. You may go now.

You people… ha.

You mean we should bow to your assessment that defended Ewing until the death this last year? Please enlighten us more about the Meyer family, Curtis Staples or “Pack the Line”.

We should be honored apparently you grace us with your presence on this board.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Feb 7, 2023 9:43:21 GMT -5 TC said:

I don't care about tournament success. I care about a coach getting us to the tournament 2 or 3 times out of 4 with an at-large bid - I think that's something a good coach can control. After you get to the tournament, success is a crapshoot in terms of injuries, seeding, location, and who is hot at the right time.

Other than Pitino, Ed Cooley is probably the highest floor candidate we can find. He's already proven that he can get to the tournament from the Big East, in the last 11 years his worst year in the Big East yielded 7 conference wins.

Some of us want a high floor after being completely uncompetitive and an absolute embarrassment.

This really hits the nail on the head. The NCAA is a much bigger crapshoot than people think, yet it matters so much to people that they ignore the fact that while we didn't make a second weekend from 2009-2017, that the years at least from 2009-2013 (and arguably through 2015) were quite good. Of course, the NCAA upsets were horrible and painful to experience as a fan. But, things like that--either in JT3 or Cooley's case--are not a reason to dismiss a coach or move on. That would be silly. JT3 was ultimately dismissed because from 2014-2017 the team wasn't very good, and we only had the one NCAA appearance. While I disagree with it at the time, there was a legitimate case to be made for moving on from JT3 in 2017.

Ed Cooley took a moribund Providence program and massively turned it around. Pete Gillen had an Elite 8 with Providence in 1997. But from 1998 through 2011 when Cooley was hired, Providence made two tournaments, and never made it out of the first round. Then, Cooley took over, had the team in the NCAA tournament in Year 3, and has had the team consistently competitive since then.

It's true that JT3 did make more tournaments while at Georgetown than Cooley has made at Providence, but Cooley has taken a program with a pretty low ceiling and hit against that ceiling repeatedly. He's a really good, quality coach. And I think he could arguably do more at Georgetown than he has done at Providence.

If all someone wants is NCAA second weekends and more, then Rick Pitino is basically the only hire that makes sense. He's such a good coach and has such an amazing track record in the tournament that nobody else comes close. So, if that's your end all and be all, there's basically just one coach that should be considered.

[hoyazeke]

Feb 7, 2023 6:50:12 GMT -5 Highsmith said:

Feb 6, 2023 21:24:13 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

III was a lot more successful than Cooley at the NCAA to tourney level.

Yet you people chased III out of here with your pitchforks.
So its funny that you people are putting Cooley on a pedestal now.

Hoyaboya does have a point when he says Cooley hasn’t done anything at tournament level.

III had success in the tournament....and then he didn't....and the results became embarrassing year after year (FGC, Ohio, etc.). Then those embarrassments started happening more and more in the regular season. Then the wins started disappearing and the embarrassing losses got even more common. Plus, recruiting dried up substantially. Those were the reasons III drew the ire of fans. Ewing has taken that situation and made it incomprehensibly worse. Cooley has taken a team with an entirely new starting 5 and turned it into a winner.....to suggest he (or any other competent coach in the country) might be able to do the same with our roster is as accurate as it is sad. Many coaches who performed like JTIII did his last 2 seasons would be fired, especially with the list of embarrassing tournament losses and despite the success early on.....ANY coach who performed like Ewing has would be fired and it is beyond embarrassing that it hasn't happened yet.

I agree that Cooley is a great coach but can we stop with the narrative that he took a team with 5 new starters and turned them into a winner. As if he was working with scraps. Hopkins (Kentucky 4*), Locke (Florida 4*), and Carter (USCe 4*) were all very talented players that could have gone to most schools....

[guru]

Feb 7, 2023 9:24:59 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

Feb 7, 2023 7:41:31 GMT -5 CTHoya08 said:

Providence went to the Sweet Sixteen last year. JTIII hadn’t taken a team to the second weekend for a full decade at the time he was fired. Am I taking crazy pills here? In what world has Cooley done “nothing” in the tournament?

Ed Cooley has one sweet 16 in 17 years of head coaching and that came in year 16 of the Ed Cooley era.

III has a final four.

Weird that you are putting Ed Cooley on a pedestal when he really hasn’t done much compared to the guy you ran out of town.

I think I’ll take Hoyaboya and Hoyas2003 assessment over you people.

Cooley has been to one sweet 16 in 17 seasons as a head coach.

JT3 went to two sweet 16s in his 17 seasons as a head coach. Of course, the final four run gives him the slight edge in terms of tournament success, but his myriad humiliating losses go a long way toward narrowing that gap.

Neither coach has done very well in the NCAA Tournament. Cooley has the edge going forward as he remains employable as a D-1 coach.

[CTHoya08]

Feb 7, 2023 11:55:12 GMT -5 hoyazeke said:

Feb 7, 2023 6:50:12 GMT -5 Highsmith said:

III had success in the tournament....and then he didn't....and the results became embarrassing year after year (FGC, Ohio, etc.). Then those embarrassments started happening more and more in the regular season. Then the wins started disappearing and the embarrassing losses got even more common. Plus, recruiting dried up substantially. Those were the reasons III drew the ire of fans. Ewing has taken that situation and made it incomprehensibly worse. Cooley has taken a team with an entirely new starting 5 and turned it into a winner.....to suggest he (or any other competent coach in the country) might be able to do the same with our roster is as accurate as it is sad. Many coaches who performed like JTIII did his last 2 seasons would be fired, especially with the list of embarrassing tournament losses and despite the success early on.....ANY coach who performed like Ewing has would be fired and it is beyond embarrassing that it hasn't happened yet.

I agree that Cooley is a great coach but can we stop with the narrative that he took a team with 5 new starters and turned them into a winner. As if he was working with scraps. Hopkins (Kentucky 4*), Locke (Florida 4*), and Carter (USCe 4*) were all very talented players that could have gone to most schools....

They could have. And they chose to go to Providence f—ing College to play for Ed Cooley. Imagine what he could do if he were selling recruits on GU and DC.

[bigskyhoya]

Feb 7, 2023 11:05:13 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Feb 7, 2023 9:43:21 GMT -5 TC said:

I don't care about tournament success. I care about a coach getting us to the tournament 2 or 3 times out of 4 with an at-large bid - I think that's something a good coach can control. After you get to the tournament, success is a crapshoot in terms of injuries, seeding, location, and who is hot at the right time.

Other than Pitino, Ed Cooley is probably the highest floor candidate we can find. He's already proven that he can get to the tournament from the Big East, in the last 11 years his worst year in the Big East yielded 7 conference wins.

Some of us want a high floor after being completely uncompetitive and an absolute embarrassment.

This really hits the nail on the head. The NCAA is a much bigger crapshoot than people think, yet it matters so much to people that they ignore the fact that while we didn't make a second weekend from 2009-2017, that the years at least from 2009-2013 (and arguably through 2015) were quite good. Of course, the NCAA upsets were horrible and painful to experience as a fan. But, things like that--either in JT3 or Cooley's case--are not a reason to dismiss a coach or move on. That would be silly. JT3 was ultimately dismissed because from 2014-2017 the team wasn't very good, and we only had the one NCAA appearance. While I disagree with it at the time, there was a legitimate case to be made for moving on from JT3 in 2017.

Ed Cooley took a moribund Providence program and massively turned it around. Pete Gillen had an Elite 8 with Providence in 1997. But from 1998 through 2011 when Cooley was hired, Providence made two tournaments, and never made it out of the first round. Then, Cooley took over, had the team in the NCAA tournament in Year 3, and has had the team consistently competitive since then.

It's true that JT3 did make more tournaments while at Georgetown than Cooley has made at Providence, but Cooley has taken a program with a pretty low ceiling and hit against that ceiling repeatedly. He's a really good, quality coach. And I think he could arguably do more at Georgetown than he has done at Providence.

If all someone wants is NCAA second weekends and more, then Rick Pitino is basically the only hire that makes sense. He's such a good coach and has such an amazing track record in the tournament that nobody else comes close. So, if that's your end all and be all, there's basically just one coach that should be considered.

We had much higher expectations for the program when III was let go which, in the end, he failed to meet. Now, because III's replacement is far worse than he was, expectations are much lower. It is unrealistic to think it will be quick and easy to return to prominence, so while I would not turn away Pitino if there is interest, I would prefer hiring an up and comer who slowly, but steadily, rebuilds the program. But we have to start now.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Feb 7, 2023 14:05:29 GMT -5 bigskyhoya said:

We had much higher expectations for the program when III was let go which, in the end, he failed to meet. Now, because III's replacement is far worse than he was, expectations are much lower. It is unrealistic to think it will be quick and easy to return to prominence, so while I would not turn away Pitino if there is interest, I would prefer hiring an up and comer who slowly, but steadily, rebuilds the program. But we have to start now.

Perhaps it is my impatience with the last few years showing, but I do not want to do anything slowly, but steadily. I don't want a 4 or 5 year rebuild. I want a quick turnaround, which has arguably become easier with the transfer portal, and I think a good quality coach could get a bunch of guys off the portal that could get us playing much better, especially if the new coach retains the better pieces we currently have. To be clear, our current team while not fantastic is not nearly as bad as our record would indicate; we are the victim of awful coaching that makes our team less than the sum of its parts.

I truly think a good high quality coach could have the team competitive and competitive for an NCAA bid in 2-3 seasons. So, that's what I want. I am confident Pitino could do that. Cooley, too, probably. But, we need to hire an experienced coach who has essentially masterminded a turnaround before. This is basically Pitino, Cooley, the reach candidates who are unlikely to take our job because they have better ones already/or are retired, or the handful of mid-major names often thrown around here that are intriguing but still carry a fairly substantial amount of risk (McAsland, Kelsey, etc.).

One more note. Oftentimes, people point to a benefit of hiring an "up and comer" versus someone like Pitino because they'd stick around longer. But, that's not necessarily true. If an up and comer comes to Georgetown and has quick success (which would be fantastic, obviously), there's a fair chance that coach gets poached by a blue blood type program. So, no matter who we hire, there is really no guarantee that person will be around for more than 5 years. So, we just need to hire the best person and let the chips fall where they may.

[bostonfan]

Feb 7, 2023 9:49:58 GMT -5 hoyaboya said:

I know there is some argument about if Cooley is a good "Coach", but I think the one thing that would be hard to argue, is that he has built a culture and environment at Providence that is impressive. He gets kids to commit to go to Providence to play for him, and for the most part, those kids stay loyal to the program and improve while there. They always play hard and are always competitive. 

There are some games I might question some of his in game tactics, but you can do that for pretty much every coach.

You would have to believe it would be easier for him to attract top end talent at Georgetown, than it is for him to get those kids to Providence. Give him higher level players and add that culture and development skills he has shown and you should have a good long term basketball program.

I have no idea if he would leave Providence at this point, but I think you need to at least check and see if he has an interest.