TC
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Post by TC on Dec 20, 2022 12:21:59 GMT -5
I’m in the camp that does want to hire Pitino, but I think a plan of “let’s just hire a coach as good as Pitino and do things the old-fashioned way, and we’ll succeed because the coach is just that good” is totally naive. Iona might not have a big NIL upside, but the opportunity to play for a HOF coach is almost as good when you’re recruiting to compete in the MAAC. To compete at the national level you need a good coach and NIL. And a coach like Pitino isn’t going to volunteer to have his hands tied behind his back. The appeal of coming to a high major would be to have the kind of tool kit a MAAC school doesn’t offer. And that’s part of the appeal—he wouldn’t allow himself to be hamstrung by Ronny effing Thompson. Hiring Rick Pitino is the type of move that creates NIL opportunities.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 20, 2022 12:23:33 GMT -5
This fixation solely with Pitino is pretty weird. In the past we’ve had a discussion where 4/-5 coaches have been mentioned and bandied about but for some reason this time we are setting ourselves up for Pitino or bust and likely disappointment when it ends up being Nickleberry, Ronnie Thompson or some Coach not named Pitino.
The chances of him coming here are 1 in a million. We’ve already discussed the multiple reasons why. And I’m saying this as a huge Rick Pitino fan.
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CTHoya08
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Bring back Izzo!
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Post by CTHoya08 on Dec 20, 2022 12:45:00 GMT -5
People are fixated on Pitino because the situation has deteriorated so far that we think the only possible road back is hiring someone who is a sure thing. And the other guys who fit that bill already have better jobs. Pitino is coaching in the MAAC right now and likely would jump at the job. The ideal would be a younger guy who could be with us for a generation, but if we pick the wrong guy and get a dud, there won’t be any program left to salvage the next time around.
And frankly, talking about a Pitino hire at least gives us something positive to hope for. If our choices really are Ronny or Nickelberry, then this program is beyond lost, and we’re all wasting our time.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Dec 20, 2022 12:54:16 GMT -5
We like to mention Pitino because the turnaround would be immediate. Other names who have been mentioned (Mike Jones) are unproven and would require time.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Dec 20, 2022 12:55:57 GMT -5
People are fixated on Pitino because the situation has deteriorated so far that we think the only possible road back is hiring someone who is a sure thing. And the other guys who fit that bill already have better jobs. Pitino is coaching in the MAAC right now and likely would jump at the job. The ideal would be a younger guy who could be with us for a generation, but if we pick the wrong guy and get a dud, there won’t be any program left to salvage the next time around. And frankly, talking about a Pitino hire at least gives us something positive to hope for. If our choices really are Ronny or Nickelberry, then this program is beyond lost, and we’re all wasting our time. There are also very strong Pitino connections to Georgetown broadly (including Rick being friendly with some of our most wealthy/influential alums) that make a hire seem a lot more likely than most guys that could be available.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 20, 2022 12:56:26 GMT -5
This fixation solely with Pitino is pretty weird. In the past we’ve had a discussion where 4/-5 coaches have been mentioned and bandied about but for some reason this time we are setting ourselves up for Pitino or bust and likely disappointment when it ends up being Nickleberry, Ronnie Thompson or some Coach not named Pitino. The chances of him coming here are 1 in a million. We’ve already discussed the multiple reasons why. And I’m saying this as a huge Rick Pitino fan. I have news for you, it will always be disappointing if RT or Nickleberry end up as the next coach... Having said that I agree that it's a long shot to land Pitino mainly because he has all the leverage which will lead to a lot of demands or must haves that I doubt Gtown will agree to
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guru
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Post by guru on Dec 20, 2022 13:08:53 GMT -5
This fixation solely with Pitino is pretty weird. In the past we’ve had a discussion where 4/-5 coaches have been mentioned and bandied about but for some reason this time we are setting ourselves up for Pitino or bust and likely disappointment when it ends up being Nickleberry, Ronnie Thompson or some Coach not named Pitino. The chances of him coming here are 1 in a million. We’ve already discussed the multiple reasons why. And I’m saying this as a huge Rick Pitino fan. I have news for you, it will always be disappointing if RT or Nickleberry end up as the next coach... Having said that I agree that it's a long shot to land Pitino mainly because he has all the leverage which will lead to a lot of demands or must haves that I doubt Gtown will agree to I think a revival of the once-great Georgetown program would be the perfect cap to Pitino’s hall of fame career. Given his many ties to Georgetown through coaching and family, it would make a ton of sense. Not to mention a decent payday for him over his final coaching years. However, it comes with a ton of risk. Given the state of the program he inherits, and the trainwreck damage done by the past 2 coaches, it’s a very hard job. There is no guarantee of success. So the flip side is that he could cap his career with a pretty public failure. I’m sure he will weigh that. In any case, I’m not expecting any coaching change any time soon. I think the dysfunction continues a few more years, after which no established coach will come within sniffing distance of this rotten cadaver of a program.
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bluegray79
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Post by bluegray79 on Dec 20, 2022 13:30:57 GMT -5
If the issue is that Gtown and DeGioia want to separate our sports from the NIL world and all it entails in changes for the so-called student-athlete, then don't we have to give up any realistic hopes of getting top recruits and therefore competing at anything near to an elite level/Final Four dreams? It would mean that we compete for 2 and 3-star players who won't likely make the pros but who could -- if coached and developed well -- challenge good D1 teams and see post season play year after year. We recruit players who can play and who also want a Georgetown degree. Maybe we get back to the best parts of JT, Jr's programs in the mid and late 70's, I don't know. The fact that the school puts significant resources (high coach salary, TAC, big budget) into the MBB program would seem to indicate that it wants to compete with the big boys, but if NIL is a line that looks too much to cross from where we are now, then they have some candid discussions and sober reckoning to do.
TBS, I have no delusions that we might sign Pitino, even though I think it would be the quickest and best way to do some program housecleaning, establish a new vision and culture, and put the team back on the winning track. And with Pitino being 70 and having maybe 5-7 more years, wouldn't it be enough for him to come to this storied but ailing program, turn it around, and bid farewell? Would he have to jump in both feet into the NIL world to recruit? Or would his HOF rep combined with all that GU has to offer be enough to recruit players who could compete at a high -- if maybe not the top -- level?
Disclaimer: I have probably fully revealed my naivete and loose grasp of how any of this works -- in which case, ignore all this and carry on. Go Hoyas.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Dec 20, 2022 13:40:20 GMT -5
If the issue is that Gtown and DeGioia want to separate our sports from the NIL world and all it entails in changes for the so-called student-athlete, then don't we have to give up any realistic hopes of getting top recruits and therefore competing at anything near to an elite level/Final Four dreams? It would mean that we compete for 2 and 3-star players who won't likely make the pros but who could -- if coached and developed well -- challenge good D1 teams and see post season play year after year. We recruit players who can play and who also want a Georgetown degree. Maybe we get back to the best parts of JT, Jr's programs in the mid and late 70's, I don't know. The fact that the school puts significant resources (high coach salary, TAC, big budget) into the MBB program would seem to indicate that it wants to compete with the big boys, but if NIL is a line that looks too much to cross from where we are now, then they have some candid discussions and sober reckoning to do. TBS, I have no delusions that we might sign Pitino, even though I think it would be the quickest and best way to do some program housecleaning, establish a new vision and culture, and put the team back on the winning track. And with Pitino being 70 and having maybe 5-7 more years, wouldn't it be enough for him to come to this storied but ailing program, turn it around, and bid farewell? Would he have to jump in both feet into the NIL world to recruit? Or would his HOF rep combined with all that GU has to offer be enough to recruit players who could compete at a high -- if maybe not the top -- level? Disclaimer: I have probably fully revealed my naivete and loose grasp of how any of this works -- in which case, ignore all this and carry on. Go Hoyas. DeGioia's NIL commentary was a red herring. We are absolutely capable and are currently playing within something in the neighborhood of "NIL" to an extent beyond many of our Big East conference brethren.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 20, 2022 14:09:07 GMT -5
I have news for you, it will always be disappointing if RT or Nickleberry end up as the next coach... Having said that I agree that it's a long shot to land Pitino mainly because he has all the leverage which will lead to a lot of demands or must haves that I doubt Gtown will agree to I think a revival of the once-great Georgetown program would be the perfect cap to Pitino’s hall of fame career. Given his many ties to Georgetown through coaching and family, it would make a ton of sense. Not to mention a decent payday for him over his final coaching years. However, it comes with a ton of risk. Given the state of the program he inherits, and the trainwreck damage done by the past 2 coaches, it’s a very hard job. There is no guarantee of success. So the flip side is that he could cap his career with a pretty public failure. I’m sure he will weigh that. In any case, I’m not expecting any coaching change any time soon. I think the dysfunction continues a few more years, after which no established coach will come within sniffing distance of this rotten cadaver of a program. It's only a hard job because JD has no idea how to be the head of the program which is the exact reason why I find it very hard to believe Pitino would come to Gtown...
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Dec 20, 2022 14:18:12 GMT -5
I think a revival of the once-great Georgetown program would be the perfect cap to Pitino’s hall of fame career. Given his many ties to Georgetown through coaching and family, it would make a ton of sense. Not to mention a decent payday for him over his final coaching years. However, it comes with a ton of risk. Given the state of the program he inherits, and the trainwreck damage done by the past 2 coaches, it’s a very hard job. There is no guarantee of success. So the flip side is that he could cap his career with a pretty public failure. I’m sure he will weigh that. In any case, I’m not expecting any coaching change any time soon. I think the dysfunction continues a few more years, after which no established coach will come within sniffing distance of this rotten cadaver of a program. It's only a hard job because JD has no idea how to be the head of the program which is the exact reason why I find it very hard to believe Pitino would come to Gtown... At the same time JD doesn’t have standards for the program so it’s guaranteed money
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CTHoya08
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Bring back Izzo!
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Post by CTHoya08 on Dec 20, 2022 14:46:10 GMT -5
If the issue is that Gtown and DeGioia want to separate our sports from the NIL world and all it entails in changes for the so-called student-athlete, then don't we have to give up any realistic hopes of getting top recruits and therefore competing at anything near to an elite level/Final Four dreams? It would mean that we compete for 2 and 3-star players who won't likely make the pros but who could -- if coached and developed well -- challenge good D1 teams and see post season play year after year. We recruit players who can play and who also want a Georgetown degree. Maybe we get back to the best parts of JT, Jr's programs in the mid and late 70's, I don't know. The fact that the school puts significant resources (high coach salary, TAC, big budget) into the MBB program would seem to indicate that it wants to compete with the big boys, but if NIL is a line that looks too much to cross from where we are now, then they have some candid discussions and sober reckoning to do. TBS, I have no delusions that we might sign Pitino, even though I think it would be the quickest and best way to do some program housecleaning, establish a new vision and culture, and put the team back on the winning track. And with Pitino being 70 and having maybe 5-7 more years, wouldn't it be enough for him to come to this storied but ailing program, turn it around, and bid farewell? Would he have to jump in both feet into the NIL world to recruit? Or would his HOF rep combined with all that GU has to offer be enough to recruit players who could compete at a high -- if maybe not the top -- level? Disclaimer: I have probably fully revealed my naivete and loose grasp of how any of this works -- in which case, ignore all this and carry on. Go Hoyas. Before NIL, there was the “problem” of one-and-done kids. Duke tried to stick with the model you’re describing for a while, but even they eventually embraced the one-and-done kids. And that was with K helming the program, with all the cachet that he carried. I’m pretty sure that Jay Wright said that his retirement was motivated in part by a lack of desire to lean into the NIL world. His statements, if I recall correctly, were more along the lines of “you can’t teach an old dog new tricks” than “this trend is bad and I’m above it,” but if anyone could have carried on the “old way” in the face of NIL it was Wright and his Villanova machine. What you’re describing is not feasible in the Big East. Jack is just deflecting with his NIL comments because he doesn’t want to condemn Patrick’s coaching.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Dec 20, 2022 15:54:07 GMT -5
I think the liberalization of the transfer rules (limited free agency) has more to do with it than NIL. What Jack D has missed or does not care about is in the new environment of college basketball, if you want a successful program you need a coach that either can successfully recruit players that fit the system being taught or one that has the ability to adapt the system to the players being recruited. His lack of engagement with the basketball program is evident from his remarks and reflected in the unbelievable tolerance he has shown for the multiple years of poor play, widespread transfers and disappearing crowds. There may not be many of us left and most GU alums may not be basketball fans, but Jack D owes it to those who remain as well as his partners in the BE to attempt to field a strong basketball program.
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Post by wrestlemania on Dec 23, 2022 16:25:06 GMT -5
I return to the irony that Jack doesn't seem to understand: he has run the program as a monument to John Thompson, but in doing so has torpedoed what Thompson built. What's scary is that Jack may be onto something -- John was big on winning but was even bigger on control, so losing isn't so bad so long as his legacy is preserved. And right now there are no internal checks and balances nor sufficient outside pressure to call BS on that.
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Dec 23, 2022 18:09:07 GMT -5
I think the longer & deeper the coach runs the program to the ground the more his legacy will be tarnished. He risks getting booed once he’s fired. A real shame, but he’s walking away with a hefty ransom. 💰💰💰
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Dec 23, 2022 18:22:54 GMT -5
I think the longer & deeper the coach runs the program to the ground the more his legacy will be tarnished. He risks getting booed once he’s fired. A real shame, but he’s walking away with a hefty ransom. 💰💰💰 Oh no, he might get booed. Poor guy.
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1427hoya
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Post by 1427hoya on Dec 23, 2022 18:37:50 GMT -5
I think the longer & deeper the coach runs the program to the ground the more his legacy will be tarnished. He risks getting booed once he’s fired. A real shame, but he’s walking away with a hefty ransom. 💰💰💰 Oh no, he might get booed. Poor guy. We’re lucky if there is anyone left who will boo
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Post by trillesthoya on Dec 23, 2022 19:29:08 GMT -5
Ewing will never get booed. No one is brave enough to be the single person booing Patrick Ewing in a crowd of 300. If this were 2016 back when you could hide amongst thousands of people to start a round of boos like they did against JT3, maybe.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Dec 23, 2022 20:00:28 GMT -5
Ewing will never get booed. No one is brave enough to be the single person booing Patrick Ewing in a crowd of 300. If this were 2016 back when you could hide amongst thousands of people to start a round of boos like they did against JT3, maybe. If I cared enough to schlep down to the DC and go to a game, I would boo from opening tip to final buzzer. I’m sure I wouldn’t make it to the first TV timeout before I was thrown out of the arena. But alas, the whole apathy thing…
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Dec 23, 2022 20:03:35 GMT -5
I will be booing him on 12/29.
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