DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 7, 2022 14:15:31 GMT -5
If there are bigger fish to fry, why did DeGioia, until recently have a significant role on the NCAA Board? And if there are so many other important things, why did DeGioia go out of his way to give Ewing an extension when it was completely and entirely unnecessary to spend time on that? Thoughts: 1. Jack didn't offer an extension by fiat. My guess is that like a lot of things, it started in athletics and went up the food chain. It may also have been, contrary what you have read elsewhere, a hedge. More on this later. 2. Patrick Ewing is an anomaly among coaches because he is not only the highest paid employee at the University, but he is a former board member and among the 100 wealthiest alumni of the institution. If Georgetown handles this the wrong way, not only does a philanthropic bridge burn with an alumnus worth ~$100 million, but it risks losing other close friends of Ewing with NBA money and the capacity to make major gifts if they see Ewing as being scapegoated. Georgetown is threading a needle here and it doesn't mean nothing will happen, only that Ewing is not getting the Lane Kiffin sendoff at USC.
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swhoya
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Post by swhoya on Dec 7, 2022 14:21:48 GMT -5
Not to derail this with another tangent, but...I hadn't really thought about just how long JD has been the president. I was a student when he took over, and I recall all the debates and pearl clutching over whether the University was losing its Catholic identify by not having a Jesuit as president. I always thought it was unfair to take a professor out of the theology department and make him take over the entire university, which is basically running a large corporation. I think by most measures, JD has done a very good job. Others may disagree, but I certainly question whether one of the Jesuits would have done better.
That being said...it's been 21 years. I don't know, but that strikes me as a very long time for a university president, unless he has been absolutely stellar. Aside from running the university, a president's major function should be to create and carry out a vision for the university. But at some point, there's an argument for the need for new ideas and a new vision. Quite apart from the basketball program (and on that aspect of his tenure, no one could reasonably argue that he's been an abject failure), would the university as a whole be better served by new leadership?
I think the chances of a change anytime soon are far less than removing RT. But that doesn't mean the university shouldn't consider a change. The basketball program has become stagnant--the same can very easily happen to the school.
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Dec 7, 2022 14:33:53 GMT -5
Not to derail this with another tangent, but...I hadn't really thought about just how long JD has been the president. I was a student when he took over, and I recall all the debates and pearl clutching over whether the University was losing its Catholic identify by not having a Jesuit as president. I always thought it was unfair to take a professor out of the theology department and make him take over the entire university, which is basically running a large corporation. I think by most measures, JD has done a very good job. Others may disagree, but I certainly question whether one of the Jesuits would have done better. That being said...it's been 21 years. I don't know, but that strikes me as a very long time for a university president, unless he has been absolutely stellar. Aside from running the university, a president's major function should be to create and carry out a vision for the university. But at some point, there's an argument for the need for new ideas and a new vision. Quite apart from the basketball program (and on that aspect of his tenure, no one could reasonably argue that he's been an abject failure), would the university as a whole be better served by new leadership? I think the chances of a change anytime soon are far less than removing RT. But that doesn't mean the university shouldn't consider a change. The basketball program has become stagnant--the same can very easily happen to the school. And let’s not forget the fun little scandals and the covid handling under him. Also not to mention the current debacle with students this past week “occupying his office” because allegedly GUPD deleted evidence of a student throwing racial slurs at another on Georgetown Day last year and the school treated the victim, who reported it, very poorly. JD has gotta go, everything just wreaks of stagnation and lack of accountability and I want someone proactive that cares enough about basketball to do something or give it to the AD
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TC
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Post by TC on Dec 7, 2022 15:01:24 GMT -5
1. Jack didn't offer an extension by fiat. My guess is that like a lot of things, it started in athletics and went up the food chain. It may also have been, contrary what you have read elsewhere, a hedge. More on this later. Giving out a top-dollar 3 year extension for a .500 coach with 2 years left on his deal is not a hedge. People might want to spin it into a hedge now given that it's one of the worst contracts in sports and the worst contract in college basketball, but it was never a hedge.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Dec 7, 2022 15:55:41 GMT -5
Not to derail this with another tangent, but...I hadn't really thought about just how long JD has been the president. I was a student when he took over, and I recall all the debates and pearl clutching over whether the University was losing its Catholic identify by not having a Jesuit as president. I always thought it was unfair to take a professor out of the theology department and make him take over the entire university, which is basically running a large corporation. I think by most measures, JD has done a very good job. Others may disagree, but I certainly question whether one of the Jesuits would have done better. That being said...it's been 21 years. I don't know, but that strikes me as a very long time for a university president, unless he has been absolutely stellar. Aside from running the university, a president's major function should be to create and carry out a vision for the university. But at some point, there's an argument for the need for new ideas and a new vision. Quite apart from the basketball program (and on that aspect of his tenure, no one could reasonably argue that he's been an abject failure), would the university as a whole be better served by new leadership? I think the chances of a change anytime soon are far less than removing RT. But that doesn't mean the university shouldn't consider a change. The basketball program has become stagnant--the same can very easily happen to the school. I read somewhere that the average length of a University President is 7 years. I think it was an article in Forbes. I had heard that Jack D was contemplating retirement but then the pandemic hit and he decided to stay on at GU for that reason. Georgetown - the only place that Jack D has ever worked . . .
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 7, 2022 16:31:15 GMT -5
Not to derail this with another tangent, but...I hadn't really thought about just how long JD has been the president. I was a student when he took over, and I recall all the debates and pearl clutching over whether the University was losing its Catholic identify by not having a Jesuit as president. I always thought it was unfair to take a professor out of the theology department and make him take over the entire university, which is basically running a large corporation. I think by most measures, JD has done a very good job. Others may disagree, but I certainly question whether one of the Jesuits would have done better. That being said...it's been 21 years. I don't know, but that strikes me as a very long time for a university president, unless he has been absolutely stellar. Aside from running the university, a president's major function should be to create and carry out a vision for the university. But at some point, there's an argument for the need for new ideas and a new vision. Quite apart from the basketball program (and on that aspect of his tenure, no one could reasonably argue that he's been an abject failure), would the university as a whole be better served by new leadership? I think the chances of a change anytime soon are far less than removing RT. But that doesn't mean the university shouldn't consider a change. The basketball program has become stagnant--the same can very easily happen to the school. I read somewhere that the average length of a University President is 7 years. I think it was an article in Forbes. I had heard that Jack D was contemplating retirement but then the pandemic hit and he decided to stay on at GU for that reason. Georgetown - the only place that Jack D has ever worked . . . The average for Jesuits is 10 years.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 7, 2022 18:40:28 GMT -5
1. Jack didn't offer an extension by fiat. My guess is that like a lot of things, it started in athletics and went up the food chain. It may also have been, contrary what you have read elsewhere, a hedge. More on this later. I truly do not understand how the extension is possibly a hedge? A hedge against what? Please enlighten us. I, of course, believe that DeGioia did not give the "extention by fiat." But, he had to have approved it or gone along with it. And it's a huge contract for the university, at least by employment standards. A "hedge" would be to offer him an extension with a tiny buyout. You get to prove your allegiance/loyalty to Ewing, while preserving the finances of the university should his (already shaky) performance merit termination. Even though he did not deserve it, I would have been fine with an extension that still allowed the university to get out of it with a small buyout. Yeah, I am sure Ewing would not have wanted that, but tough luck, he didn't have negotiating leverage then other than the aura of the BET. Unless this is way more complicated than I think, it's hard to see how the extension was not a very bone-headed move. I have no doubt that Patrick Ewing is a wealthy alumnus of Georgetown (though I have no idea what his net worth is right now, or how much of his basketball money he still has, invested, etc., or what other income he has). An important thing to keep in mind is that Ewing has already been accorded way more deference than anybody else would be given, including John Thompson's son. The other day I was searching for coaches who went winless in their conference in Year 5 and didn't get fired/resign, and I couldn't find any. The closest is Jerry Wainwright who went winless in his fourth year, and promptly followed it with a 1-17 his fifth year, and he got the boot. At some point, the wealth of your coach becomes irrelevant if it causes the program he helped to build as a player, die with him at the helm as a coach.
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DonkDonk
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Post by DonkDonk on Dec 7, 2022 18:55:49 GMT -5
If there are bigger fish to fry, why did DeGioia, until recently have a significant role on the NCAA Board? And if there are so many other important things, why did DeGioia go out of his way to give Ewing an extension when it was completely and entirely unnecessary to spend time on that? Thoughts: 1. Jack didn't offer an extension by fiat. My guess is that like a lot of things, it started in athletics and went up the food chain. It may also have been, contrary what you have read elsewhere, a hedge. More on this later. 2. Patrick Ewing is an anomaly among coaches because he is not only the highest paid employee at the University, but he is a former board member and among the 100 wealthiest alumni of the institution. If Georgetown handles this the wrong way, not only does a philanthropic bridge burn with an alumnus worth ~$100 million, but it risks losing other close friends of Ewing with NBA money and the capacity to make major gifts if they see Ewing as being scapegoated. Georgetown is threading a needle here and it doesn't mean nothing will happen, only that Ewing is not getting the Lane Kiffin sendoff at USC. Oooooh, the palace intrigue thickens! Thanks for joining the party, DFW! Please remember that it's a message board filled with non-journalist fans, and the reason it exists so we can talk about what we think is the case. The news will bear it out.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 7, 2022 19:57:56 GMT -5
Thoughts: 1. Jack didn't offer an extension by fiat. My guess is that like a lot of things, it started in athletics and went up the food chain. It may also have been, contrary what you have read elsewhere, a hedge. More on this later. 2. Patrick Ewing is an anomaly among coaches because he is not only the highest paid employee at the University, but he is a former board member and among the 100 wealthiest alumni of the institution. If Georgetown handles this the wrong way, not only does a philanthropic bridge burn with an alumnus worth ~$100 million, but it risks losing other close friends of Ewing with NBA money and the capacity to make major gifts if they see Ewing as being scapegoated. Georgetown is threading a needle here and it doesn't mean nothing will happen, only that Ewing is not getting the Lane Kiffin sendoff at USC. Oooooh, the palace intrigue thickens! Thanks for joining the party, DFW! Please remember that it's a message board filled with non-journalist fans, and the reason it exists so we can talk about what we think is the case. The news will bear it out. DFW does stories on hoysaxa.com, so maybe that's what he means? Or maybe he didn't have time to explain. Either way, I will eagerly read about it.
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hoyaguy
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoyaguy on Dec 7, 2022 20:11:29 GMT -5
1. Jack didn't offer an extension by fiat. My guess is that like a lot of things, it started in athletics and went up the food chain. It may also have been, contrary what you have read elsewhere, a hedge. More on this later. I truly do not understand how the extension is possibly a hedge? A hedge against what? Please enlighten us. I, of course, believe that DeGioia did not give the "extention by fiat." But, he had to have approved it or gone along with it. And it's a huge contract for the university, at least by employment standards. A "hedge" would be to offer him an extension with a tiny buyout. You get to prove your allegiance/loyalty to Ewing, while preserving the finances of the university should his (already shaky) performance merit termination. Even though he did not deserve it, I would have been fine with an extension that still allowed the university to get out of it with a small buyout. Yeah, I am sure Ewing would not have wanted that, but tough luck, he didn't have negotiating leverage then other than the aura of the BET. Unless this is way more complicated than I think, it's hard to see how the extension was not a very bone-headed move. I have no doubt that Patrick Ewing is a wealthy alumnus of Georgetown (though I have no idea what his net worth is right now, or how much of his basketball money he still has, invested, etc., or what other income he has). An important thing to keep in mind is that Ewing has already been accorded way more deference than anybody else would be given, including John Thompson's son. The other day I was searching for coaches who went winless in their conference in Year 5 and didn't get fired/resign, and I couldn't find any. The closest is Jerry Wainwright who went winless in his fourth year, and promptly followed it with a 1-17 his fifth year, and he got the boot. At some point, the wealth of your coach becomes irrelevant if it causes the program he helped to build as a player, die with him at the helm as a coach. It seems very possible that our esteemed president who runs an institution that is akin to a CEO job of a F500 company fell for the classic realtor move of "oh if you're interested at all in the house, then I should tell you there's another couple who are about to put in a bid". Like it's really hard to put into words how stupid of an extension that was, a first year undergrad business student could negotiate a better deal. And if Pat or Falk really had the gall to hint at jumping the first chance he gets to an NBA job (which might make someone "hedge"), then they're disrespectful jerks anyway (not saying that's what happened but that is a negotiating card to play when seeking a raise/extension). Someone's gotta tell Pat that he is doing no-one favors here and JD can get lost. Also do people think that the extension was secret because it would have ruffled a lot of feathers around the university that there was the hiring freeze, all of the cutbacks, and online school?
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 7, 2022 22:17:39 GMT -5
If there are bigger fish to fry, why did DeGioia, until recently have a significant role on the NCAA Board? And if there are so many other important things, why did DeGioia go out of his way to give Ewing an extension when it was completely and entirely unnecessary to spend time on that? Thoughts: 1. Jack didn't offer an extension by fiat. My guess is that like a lot of things, it started in athletics and went up the food chain. It may also have been, contrary what you have read elsewhere, a hedge. More on this later. 2. Patrick Ewing is an anomaly among coaches because he is not only the highest paid employee at the University, but he is a former board member and among the 100 wealthiest alumni of the institution. If Georgetown handles this the wrong way, not only does a philanthropic bridge burn with an alumnus worth ~$100 million, but it risks losing other close friends of Ewing with NBA money and the capacity to make major gifts if they see Ewing as being scapegoated. Georgetown is threading a needle here and it doesn't mean nothing will happen, only that Ewing is not getting the Lane Kiffin sendoff at USC. Kinda unfair to imply the AD had anything to do with the extension, Reed is an experienced director he's not making an error like that... Not even PE Jr could possibly think PE Sr could be scapegoated for being held responsible for his own body of work.
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miracles87
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Post by miracles87 on Dec 7, 2022 23:53:38 GMT -5
It is so funny reading all of this righteous indignation knowing that none of it would exist with a few more wins
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 8, 2022 0:10:30 GMT -5
It is so funny reading all of this righteous indignation knowing that none of it would exist with a few more wins A lot more wins and titles… ask JT3… which would merit a Top 15 budget and contract… funny sad…
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Post by FHillsNYHoya on Dec 8, 2022 0:16:54 GMT -5
It is so funny reading all of this righteous indignation knowing that none of it would exist with a few more wins I would quibble with "a few more wins."
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Post by hoyaatheart55 on Dec 8, 2022 2:59:59 GMT -5
It is so funny reading all of this righteous indignation knowing that none of it would exist with a few more wins A few?
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Dec 8, 2022 5:29:52 GMT -5
It is so funny reading all of this righteous indignation knowing that none of it would exist with a few more wins A few? Few = 20 or so And I am not sure it would go away then. Fredo represents everything wrong about GU Basketball right now. No accountability; no transparency; cronyism unchecked; perpetually looking to recreate the past and a continuing reminder that Big John is running the show from the great beyond.
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alleninxis
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Post by alleninxis on Dec 8, 2022 9:05:42 GMT -5
A lot of us have been fed up with how this program has operated for years and it's all coming to roost now when you play to a historically low level.
Don't engage fans - you're going to have a really hard time when the wins stop coming. They've treated fans as an annoyance more than an asset and now they need to ask people to come for free.
They've made poor staff hires for years - dating back to when JTIII had to replenish his original staff - so bad, that yes they had to re-hire Kevin Broadus and stash him for a year in a 'support' role.
They've had fractured local recruiting relationships for years and have never tried to repair them.
There have been cracks in this program for too long - a 'few more wis' did mask it for a while, the but the problems were always there. We've just finally hit the tipping point.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 8, 2022 10:09:54 GMT -5
A lot of us have been fed up with how this program has operated for years and it's all coming to roost now when you play to a historically low level. Don't engage fans - you're going to have a really hard time when the wins stop coming. They've treated fans as an annoyance more than an asset and now they need to ask people to come for free. They've made poor staff hires for years - dating back to when JTIII had to replenish his original staff - so bad, that yes they had to re-hire Kevin Broadus and stash him for a year in a 'support' role. They've had fractured local recruiting relationships for years and have never tried to repair them. There have been cracks in this program for too long - a 'few more wis' did mask it for a while, the but the problems were always there. We've just finally hit the tipping point. It would be so easy to turn around all of these with a new, experienced coach not related to the Thompson family business. Any new Thompson-related coach would do the same things. It’s part of the family philosophy.
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Post by practice on Dec 8, 2022 12:41:25 GMT -5
If there are bigger fish to fry, why did DeGioia, until recently have a significant role on the NCAA Board? And if there are so many other important things, why did DeGioia go out of his way to give Ewing an extension when it was completely and entirely unnecessary to spend time on that? Thoughts: 1. Jack didn't offer an extension by fiat. My guess is that like a lot of things, it started in athletics and went up the food chain. It may also have been, contrary what you have read elsewhere, a hedge. More on this later. 2. Patrick Ewing is an anomaly among coaches because he is not only the highest paid employee at the University, but he is a former board member and among the 100 wealthiest alumni of the institution. If Georgetown handles this the wrong way, not only does a philanthropic bridge burn with an alumnus worth ~$100 million, but it risks losing other close friends of Ewing with NBA money and the capacity to make major gifts if they see Ewing as being scapegoated. Georgetown is threading a needle here and it doesn't mean nothing will happen, only that Ewing is not getting the Lane Kiffin sendoff at USC. This is a ridiculous take on the situation. Patrick Ewing is the worst coach in college basketball ... a hedge against what? Are you saying that DeGioia was rolled by Lee Reed? How much money has Patrick Ewing donated to Georgetown? His gift to the TAC was a joint gift with Falk for $3.3M ... how much of that was Ewing's money? If there was ever anyone who owed Georgetown $$$ it's Mr. Syracuse himself, David Falk. Who is going to be upset with Georgetown if Patrick Ewing is shown the door? You are talking about well-monied alums who care about Georgetown basketball and they want Ewing coaching? Are you crazy? You don't think all of the rich alumni who like basketball but who didn't play in the NBA want Ewing as the coach? With all due respect DFW, you do a great service to all of your fellow alumni and fans with the website but you are the Miracles87/HoyaRoc/etc. of Jack DeGioia. You defend him to the point of destroying your credibility. I was all for firing JT3 ... that was the right decision. There was a colossal fail on the hiring of Ewing. God rest his soul, but Big John was such a meddler that it was quickly apparent that no "big name" coach was coming to Georgetown six years ago. Instead of taking a flyer on a young up and comer not one degree of separation from the Thompsons, Big John foisted Ewing on us. I assume -- and maybe I'm wrong -- that Ronny Thompson does NOT hold the same sway over DeGioia ... so perhaps after more than 50 years we can get out of the Thompson world. I love the idea of Pitino ... a great who has fallen on hard times and needs a redemption story ... does that remind you of your favorite basketball program? I fear some f'ed up scenario that ends with interim HC Ronny Thompson. We'll see how it plays it.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 8, 2022 14:36:07 GMT -5
Thoughts: 1. Jack didn't offer an extension by fiat. My guess is that like a lot of things, it started in athletics and went up the food chain. It may also have been, contrary what you have read elsewhere, a hedge. More on this later. 2. Patrick Ewing is an anomaly among coaches because he is not only the highest paid employee at the University, but he is a former board member and among the 100 wealthiest alumni of the institution. If Georgetown handles this the wrong way, not only does a philanthropic bridge burn with an alumnus worth ~$100 million, but it risks losing other close friends of Ewing with NBA money and the capacity to make major gifts if they see Ewing as being scapegoated. Georgetown is threading a needle here and it doesn't mean nothing will happen, only that Ewing is not getting the Lane Kiffin sendoff at USC. This is a ridiculous take on the situation. Patrick Ewing is the worst coach in college basketball ... a hedge against what? Are you saying that DeGioia was rolled by Lee Reed? How much money has Patrick Ewing donated to Georgetown? His gift to the TAC was a joint gift with Falk for $3.3M ... how much of that was Ewing's money? If there was ever anyone who owed Georgetown $$$ it's Mr. Syracuse himself, David Falk. Who is going to be upset with Georgetown if Patrick Ewing is shown the door? You are talking about well-monied alums who care about Georgetown basketball and they want Ewing coaching? Are you crazy? You don't think all of the rich alumni who like basketball but who didn't play in the NBA want Ewing as the coach? With all due respect DFW, you do a great service to all of your fellow alumni and fans with the website but you are the Miracles87/HoyaRoc/etc. of Jack DeGioia. You defend him to the point of destroying your credibility. I was all for firing JT3 ... that was the right decision. There was a colossal fail on the hiring of Ewing. God rest his soul, but Big John was such a meddler that it was quickly apparent that no "big name" coach was coming to Georgetown six years ago. Instead of taking a flyer on a young up and comer not one degree of separation from the Thompsons, Big John foisted Ewing on us. I assume -- and maybe I'm wrong -- that Ronny Thompson does NOT hold the same sway over DeGioia ... so perhaps after more than 50 years we can get out of the Thompson world. I love the idea of Pitino ... a great who has fallen on hard times and needs a redemption story ... does that remind you of your favorite basketball program? I fear some f'ed up scenario that ends with interim HC Ronny Thompson. We'll see how it plays it. Agree with you, practice. I’m just waiting for DFW’s “more on this later” to counter. Do we really think Leonsis, McCourt or the Shaws are going to be put off by letting Pat go and basketball back in the right direction? They’ll be sad for Patrick not being able to fulfill his NBA coaching dreams due to Patrick’s own limitations. Those people are winners and winners want to succeed in everything. They’ll understand. Nobody needs to feel sorry for Patrick. He’s made more money in one year that in most of his pro years. In the meantime, what an investment by Patrick and Falk! $3.3M for 9 years/$31M (and someone pocketed fat agent fees)…
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