TC
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Post by TC on Oct 28, 2022 15:35:04 GMT -5
So, if he does not get the waiver now, is he available right after this semester’s finals in December? He played 2nd semester at ASU, so it'd probably be Fall of 2024 (if he sticks around for that or isn't immediately run off).
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on Oct 28, 2022 15:38:39 GMT -5
So, if he does not get the waiver now, is he available right after this semester’s finals in December? He played 2nd semester at ASU, so it'd probably be Fall of 2024 (if he sticks around for that or isn't immediately run off). Think you mean fall of 23
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TC
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Post by TC on Oct 28, 2022 17:16:17 GMT -5
He played 2nd semester at ASU, so it'd probably be Fall of 2024 (if he sticks around for that or isn't immediately run off). Think you mean fall of 23 Shoot - you're right.
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Nov 2, 2022 7:40:41 GMT -5
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TC
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Post by TC on Nov 2, 2022 8:52:53 GMT -5
I love how people selectively use the academic argument. Bobby Hurley actually graduates players.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Nov 2, 2022 10:02:30 GMT -5
I love how people selectively use the academic argument. Bobby Hurley actually graduates players. Agreed. Unless and until we show some serious improvement in player retention/academic progress numbers, that argument rings awfully hollow.
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SDHoya
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Jay Heath
Nov 2, 2022 11:10:01 GMT -5
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Post by SDHoya on Nov 2, 2022 11:10:01 GMT -5
I took the section about academics as being somewhat tongue in cheek. The more valid point is that if everyone knows that the rules limiting off season transfers are going away, why hold Heath to the old rule? Considering waivers often appear to be given away like Halloween candy, this should be reason enough to grant it.
Hope to see Jay suit up sooner rather than later. Excited for real games regardless!
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bigskyhoya
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Post by bigskyhoya on Nov 2, 2022 11:22:52 GMT -5
I took the section about academics as being somewhat tongue in cheek. The more valid point is that if everyone knows that the rules limiting off season transfers are going away, why hold Heath to the old rule? Considering waivers often appear to be given away like Halloween candy, this should be reason enough to grant it. Hope to see Jay suit up sooner rather than later. Excited for real games regardless! Even if the NCAA declines the waiver, there is no justification for not ruling by now. Are they really still gathering facts necessary to make the decision?
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Jay Heath
Nov 2, 2022 11:46:00 GMT -5
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 2, 2022 11:46:00 GMT -5
I took the section about academics as being somewhat tongue in cheek. The more valid point is that if everyone knows that the rules limiting off season transfers are going away, why hold Heath to the old rule? Considering waivers often appear to be given away like Halloween candy, this should be reason enough to grant it. Hope to see Jay suit up sooner rather than later. Excited for real games regardless! Even if the NCAA declines the waiver, there is no justification for not ruling by now. Are they really still gathering facts necessary to make the decision? Seems to be a common problem www.ktsm.com/sports/college-sports/nmsu/2-days-before-exhibition-game-nm-state-still-awaiting-ncaa-waivers-for-aiken-jr-pinson/amp/
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bluegray79
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Post by bluegray79 on Nov 2, 2022 12:20:18 GMT -5
Question: Jay committed to Gtown in April. We might not ever get the answer to this but did PE and the recruiting team make him an offer with the assumption that he would get the waiver because that was what the practice of waivers seem to indicate? Or did someone in the NCAA or some specialist/advisor tell them it was good to sign him based on their knowledge of how these things go? Or did the NCAA straight out say that it was likely that he would get the waiver? I wish someone would ask PE how it went down to leave them in this position 6 days from the opener. Now you see that New Mexico is in the same position. Like someone said earlier, how long does it take? Aidan laid out the flow chart in Casual Hoya, and it doesn't look that burdensome.
Isn't Pres. DeGioia the head of the NCAA Board of Governors? I know there can be no whiff of meddling, but isn't there something he could do to grease the skids?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Nov 2, 2022 12:42:16 GMT -5
Isn't Pres. DeGioia the head of the NCAA Board of Governors? I know there can be no whiff of meddling, but isn't there something he could do to grease the skids? Jack DeGioia is the CEO of a $1.5 billion non-profit with 200,000 alumni shareholders, a perpetually underpaid staff and faculty, and thousands of potentially litigious parents. He has to raise money, raise more money, and in the words of a former GU development official, "absorb chaos, project calm, and give hope". Men's basketball may not even be on the top 100 things he's got to focus on.
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78HOYA78
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Post by 78HOYA78 on Nov 2, 2022 13:54:00 GMT -5
These executive boards make no sense. There should have been a decision by now. Thy should be held to some type of standard such as a "ruling must be made within a certain amount of time". Did you hear that Kansas slapped themselves on the wrist.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 2, 2022 14:14:18 GMT -5
Isn't Pres. DeGioia the head of the NCAA Board of Governors? I know there can be no whiff of meddling, but isn't there something he could do to grease the skids? Jack DeGioia is the CEO of a $1.5 billion non-profit with 200,000 alumni shareholders, a perpetually underpaid staff and faculty, and thousands of potentially litigious parents. He has to raise money, raise more money, and in the words of a former GU development official, "absorb chaos, project calm, and give hope". Men's basketball may not even be on the top 100 things he's got to focus on. It’s the same for most medium/small Catholic private colleges. A successful basketball program would be the perfect distraction to said chaos, help to project calm, and give hope, just like it does for Villanova. It is definitely a top priority there. In fact, a whole strategy was developed around the growth and success of the basketball program and how it related to Villanova’s improvement as an academic institution.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Nov 2, 2022 15:33:40 GMT -5
It’s the same for most medium/small Catholic private colleges. A successful basketball program would be the perfect distraction to said chaos, help to project calm, and give hope, just like it does for Villanova. It is definitely a top priority there. In fact, a whole strategy was developed around the growth and success of the basketball program and how it related to Villanova’s improvement as an academic institution. Except Georgetown isn't in that circle of "medium/small Catholic private colleges" you cite. It is not Xavier or Marquette or even Villanova. It's no longer the Washington version of Fordham or Holy Cross. Georgetown has not a single aspirational peer in the Big East: it is competing alongside Penn, Duke, and Brown for students, donors, and grants. St. John's, it is not. This has a collateral effect on institutional priorities, and men's basketball simply isn't the priority it was in the 1980's when Tim Healy saw the program as a promotional asset for the University. It's no longer an admissions driver as it is at other schools, and is not driving fundraising. Compare the two schools online. Athletics is on the front page at Villanova, nowhere close at Georgetown. And that's not an accident by either. www1.villanova.edu/university.htmlwww.georgetown.edu/
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bluegray79
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Post by bluegray79 on Nov 2, 2022 15:58:23 GMT -5
You make good points. However, if you believe that you can tell a lot about a group's (club, family, university, government, etc.) values by where it puts its money, I wouldn't be so quick to say that basketball is basically an afterthought for the Admin here at Georgetown. PE makes around $4 mil/year. The TAC is, by all accounts, a top-notch $60 million facility. Records are not public but it would appear from the looks of things that the MBB coaches are not hampered financially in their need to travel, recruit, and run the program. It's not Duke, but I would say that the university does indeed value the MBB program inasmuch as they devote serious $$$ to it.
What's missing, IMO, is what prhoya refers to at Nova: a whole strategy around the growth and success of the basketball program and how it related to Villanova’s improvement as an academic institution. That's what Tim Healy did back in the day, and that's what's conspicuously absent now -- and, I daresay, the source of much of our frustration with all that has transpired the last 6-10 years.
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Nov 2, 2022 17:14:12 GMT -5
You make good points. However, if you believe that you can tell a lot about a group's (club, family, university, government, etc.) values by where it puts its money, I wouldn't be so quick to say that basketball is basically an afterthought for the Admin here at Georgetown. PE makes around $4 mil/year. The TAC is, by all accounts, a top-notch $60 million facility. Records are not public but it would appear from the looks of things that the MBB coaches are not hampered financially in their need to travel, recruit, and run the program. It's not Duke, but I would say that the university does indeed value the MBB program inasmuch as they devote serious $$$ to it. What's missing, IMO, is what prhoya refers to at Nova: a whole strategy around the growth and success of the basketball program and how it related to Villanova’s improvement as an academic institution. That's what Tim Healy did back in the day, and that's what's conspicuously absent now -- and, I daresay, the source of much of our frustration with all that has transpired the last 6-10 years. Yeah that is what’s confusing about some arguments is if bball isn’t a priority then why are they paying 4 million a year just on Ewing’s salary alone (if they don’t see the issue there then certain people shouldn’t be in charge)? Also is it really not a plus in any way for the school to have attractive athletics? I think Duke (and Villanova to an extent which you say isn’t peer today and i agree but in recent times Villanova has moved a lot closer to us than we have to Duke at least from my perspective) would disagree as it can be a huge selling point to win cross admits and gain more attention in the public, get more ticket sales and get more applicants etc. Like why go to a boring school with meh athletics when you can go to a similarly ranked school and get a piece of the victory and culture that they would have (to me the choice would’ve been easy if this situation was presented when I applied to college not too long ago) Also if the basketball office ran smoothly then it wouldn’t just be another pain to deal with as it has been I hope heath can play or it’ll be a big burn for the team and another excuse
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hoyaguy
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Jay Heath
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Post by hoyaguy on Nov 2, 2022 17:21:40 GMT -5
Isn't Pres. DeGioia the head of the NCAA Board of Governors? I know there can be no whiff of meddling, but isn't there something he could do to grease the skids? Jack DeGioia is the CEO of a $1.5 billion non-profit with 200,000 alumni shareholders, a perpetually underpaid staff and faculty, and thousands of potentially litigious parents. He has to raise money, raise more money, and in the words of a former GU development official, "absorb chaos, project calm, and give hope". Men's basketball may not even be on the top 100 things he's got to focus on. I would be shocked if he even knew about the Heath thing lol While it sounds like a chaotic job he is handsomely paid for it. And if basketball is so far outside his focus then if only there was a person in athletics whose sole focus is athletics and if granted the power, could be more effective by actually giving the sport attention and care instead of it just being treated as a thorn to deal with hmmmmmmmmmmmmm if only…
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Nov 2, 2022 20:04:45 GMT -5
It’s the same for most medium/small Catholic private colleges. A successful basketball program would be the perfect distraction to said chaos, help to project calm, and give hope, just like it does for Villanova. It is definitely a top priority there. In fact, a whole strategy was developed around the growth and success of the basketball program and how it related to Villanova’s improvement as an academic institution. Except Georgetown isn't in that circle of "medium/small Catholic private colleges" you cite. It is not Xavier or Marquette or even Villanova. It's no longer the Washington version of Fordham or Holy Cross. Georgetown has not a single aspirational peer in the Big East: it is competing alongside Penn, Duke, and Brown for students, donors, and grants. St. John's, it is not. This has a collateral effect on institutional priorities, and men's basketball simply isn't the priority it was in the 1980's when Tim Healy saw the program as a promotional asset for the University. It's no longer an admissions driver as it is at other schools, and is not driving fundraising. Compare the two schools online. Athletics is on the front page at Villanova, nowhere close at Georgetown. And that's not an accident by either. www1.villanova.edu/university.htmlwww.georgetown.edu/While all your points are valid, they would only be relevant if Gtown had the lowest or one of the lower budgets in the BE. That would show in a real way how the University has de-emphasized the basketball program. Even accepting that Gtown basketball is the 432nd item on the priority list for the administration, it still does not excuse being outdone by programs that spend far less on their programs... As I've posted dozens of times the administration doesn't have a commitment problem it has a competence problem.
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Post by hsaxon on Nov 2, 2022 20:10:03 GMT -5
Isn't Pres. DeGioia the head of the NCAA Board of Governors? I know there can be no whiff of meddling, but isn't there something he could do to grease the skids? Jack DeGioia is the CEO of a $1.5 billion non-profit with 200,000 alumni shareholders, a perpetually underpaid staff and faculty, and thousands of potentially litigious parents. He has to raise money, raise more money, and in the words of a former GU development official, "absorb chaos, project calm, and give hope". Men's basketball may not even be on the top 100 things he's got to focus on. Then he needs to delegate it and get out of the way.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 2, 2022 20:22:07 GMT -5
It’s the same for most medium/small Catholic private colleges. A successful basketball program would be the perfect distraction to said chaos, help to project calm, and give hope, just like it does for Villanova. It is definitely a top priority there. In fact, a whole strategy was developed around the growth and success of the basketball program and how it related to Villanova’s improvement as an academic institution. Except Georgetown isn't in that circle of "medium/small Catholic private colleges" you cite. It is not Xavier or Marquette or even Villanova. It's no longer the Washington version of Fordham or Holy Cross. Georgetown has not a single aspirational peer in the Big East: it is competing alongside Penn, Duke, and Brown for students, donors, and grants. St. John's, it is not. This has a collateral effect on institutional priorities, and men's basketball simply isn't the priority it was in the 1980's when Tim Healy saw the program as a promotional asset for the University. It's no longer an admissions driver as it is at other schools, and is not driving fundraising. Penn, Duke and Brown may be the aspirational peers for the University, but Villanova is the realistic one. The endowments (FY2021) for the first three mentioned universities were $20.50B, $12.70B and $6.52B, respectively. Our endowment is at $2.59B and Villanova has an endowment of $1.12B. I've been meaning to link an article re: the effect of Villanova's basketball success, but don't think the Jay Heath thread is the place for it. DFW et al., let's find another thread for that... It is time for GU to take basketball seriously again and enjoy its effect on the University, like Villanova is doing.
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