|
Post by ewingitrust on Apr 21, 2022 18:47:27 GMT -5
I think we've finally solved our local recruiting issues and it will pay significant dividends.
|
|
daveg023
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,351
|
Post by daveg023 on Apr 21, 2022 18:52:11 GMT -5
Does this mean Orr is gone?
Kirby —> Nickelberry Waheed —> Crouch Orr —> Brooks?
Aren’t we only allowed 3 assistants?
|
|
hoyaroc
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,324
|
Post by hoyaroc on Apr 21, 2022 18:59:44 GMT -5
Does this mean Orr is gone? Kirby —> Nickelberry Waheed —> Crouch Orr —> Brooks? Aren’t we only allowed 3 assistants? Orr possibly special assistant to the head coach.
|
|
DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 30,587
|
Post by DanMcQ on Apr 21, 2022 19:40:33 GMT -5
"We" did fix it. "We" have a close professional colleague named John Brooks, so when "our" brain said type "Jordan", "our" hands typed "John." "We" hope the typo did not cause too much antacid consumption as a result. Thanks, Dan. Perfectly reasonable explanation. While it was not intended to be disrespectful, it could havre been received that wa by Brooks & Co. Everybody knows nobody reads this place. (For those literalists reading, the prior sentence was sarcasm) jwp91 - I did not take it as disrespect, I appreciated you (and others) pointing it out. Just trying to make fun of myself at the same time.
|
|
njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,774
|
Post by njhoya78 on Apr 21, 2022 20:11:29 GMT -5
Silly me. I misread the new title on the thread as "Jordan Marsh." My bad.
|
|
hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,218
|
Post by hoyarooter on Apr 21, 2022 20:19:29 GMT -5
Here come the no credibility team. If the new assistant coaches were Jay Wright, the ghost of John Wooden and Bill Self, hoyaboya and 9797 would still find something to complain about.
|
|
|
Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Apr 21, 2022 21:13:15 GMT -5
Does this mean Orr is gone? Kirby —> Nickelberry Waheed —> Crouch Orr —> Brooks? Aren’t we only allowed 3 assistants? Three assistant coaches that can recruit on the road. Likely means that Crouch and Orr swapped titles and recruiting status, though I’m sure Orr will have different responsibilities as special assistant than Crouch did.
|
|
kbones17
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,186
|
Post by kbones17 on Apr 21, 2022 22:44:29 GMT -5
Is this done? No one else is reporting it. Hilltop Hoops says not a done deal (yet). His Twitter still says Xavier. I can’t imagine this is a done deal given that.
|
|
hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,207
|
Post by hoya9797 on Apr 22, 2022 0:03:56 GMT -5
Here come the no credibility team. If the new assistant coaches were Jay Wright, the ghost of John Wooden and Bill Self, hoyaboya and 9797 would still find something to complain about. But, what part of what Boya said isn’t true?
|
|
|
Post by wponds on Apr 22, 2022 7:41:14 GMT -5
If the new assistant coaches were Jay Wright, the ghost of John Wooden and Bill Self, hoyaboya and 9797 would still find something to complain about. But, what part of what Boya said isn’t true? Brooks recruited: RJ Cole at Howard (first team all Big East) Tyrell Ward to Xavier - top 30 prospect Also in his only year as Xavier's Recruiting Coordinator had a hand in getting the #62 and #87 recruits in 2022 (not including Ward) according to 247 All while still being in his early 30s with room to grow and have his resume expanded.
|
|
|
Post by hoyalove4ever on Apr 22, 2022 8:20:01 GMT -5
And with local ties/ goodwill
|
|
daveg023
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,351
|
Post by daveg023 on Apr 22, 2022 10:17:57 GMT -5
I think Brooks' has a solid resume and is a good addition (in a vacuum). The problem is he seems redundant with Nickelberry. We need at least one X's & O's guy on the staff, not 3 stud recruiters.
Who had the most talented rosters in recent years? Memphis, Michigan, Kentucky, etc. Yet their on-court success paled in comparison to Villanova, Kansas, UNC, who had a lot less NBA kids then them, but perhaps better in-game coaching and player development that led to better results.
We were devoid on talent and coaching, so if we up the talent, perhaps it rises all boats, but my fear is no one we brought in has any track record of improving our major flaws in defensive strategy and scheme.
Again I don't want to be negative, as I do think if Brooks' comes it's generally a good move, but I would have liked to have seen the last assistant spot filled by someone who with a little more coaching chops, and less emphasis on the recruiting side.
|
|
|
Post by hoyalove4ever on Apr 22, 2022 10:21:37 GMT -5
You never can have too many good recruiters!
|
|
hoyaguy
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,861
|
Post by hoyaguy on Apr 22, 2022 10:44:37 GMT -5
I think Brooks' has a solid resume and is a good addition (in a vacuum). The problem is he seems redundant with Nickelberry. We need at least one X's & O's guy on the staff, not 3 stud recruiters. Who had the most talented rosters in recent years? Memphis, Michigan, Kentucky, etc. Yet their on-court success paled in comparison to Villanova, Kansas, UNC, who had a lot less NBA kids then them, but perhaps better in-game coaching and player development that led to better results. We were devoid on talent and coaching, so if we up the talent, perhaps it rises all boats, but my fear is no one we brought in has any track record of improving our major flaws in defensive strategy and scheme. Again I don't want to be negative, as I do think if Brooks' comes it's generally a good move, but I would have liked to have seen the last assistant spot filled by someone who with a little more coaching chops, and less emphasis on the recruiting side. That is a fair concern that I share too. Talent is important to have but strategy and in game coaching is more important and can have great teams fizzle out. I hope they are genuinely considering different schemes
|
|
rhw485
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 742
|
Post by rhw485 on Apr 22, 2022 11:22:07 GMT -5
I think Brooks' has a solid resume and is a good addition (in a vacuum). The problem is he seems redundant with Nickelberry. We need at least one X's & O's guy on the staff, not 3 stud recruiters. Who had the most talented rosters in recent years? Memphis, Michigan, Kentucky, etc. Yet their on-court success paled in comparison to Villanova, Kansas, UNC, who had a lot less NBA kids then them, but perhaps better in-game coaching and player development that led to better results. We were devoid on talent and coaching, so if we up the talent, perhaps it rises all boats, but my fear is no one we brought in has any track record of improving our major flaws in defensive strategy and scheme. Again I don't want to be negative, as I do think if Brooks' comes it's generally a good move, but I would have liked to have seen the last assistant spot filled by someone who with a little more coaching chops, and less emphasis on the recruiting side. I get this to an extent, on the other hand I feel like unless we hired someone from the Chris Beard tree there would be this complaint about a defensive specialist. In reality, how many teams announce a defensive coordinator where it's known which assistant is responsible for defense? Who really would've been a good hire to explicitly address this defense demand. I appreciate Nickelberry and Brooks are being touted for their recruiting, and then the presumption is they don't have any Xs and Os experience. Yes Nickelberry's stint at Howard was difficult but he worked at LSU for two seasons. Defensive efficiency for last three years: Year before Nickelberry: 185 Year 1: 116 Year 2: 8 LSU primarily changed their defensive scheme to switch screens as much as anyone in the country and it had a huge effect. I cant find an article that attributes the change to any one assistant. If you can find one, I'll stand corrected. Could it have been Nickelberry? Even if it wasn't Nickelberry, do we not think he knew what they were doing and could help implement it here? To me the bigger question is whether Ewing is really willing to listen to outside voices. But to presume Nickelberry and Brooks won't bring ideas just because they weren't explicitly called out as a defensive assistant seems harsh. Ewing has made it clear he doesn't think the problem is scheme. I disagree, less so on offense and way more on defense but this will be a good test to see if the scheme even looks different.
|
|
daveg023
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,351
|
Post by daveg023 on Apr 22, 2022 12:10:10 GMT -5
I think Brooks' has a solid resume and is a good addition (in a vacuum). The problem is he seems redundant with Nickelberry. We need at least one X's & O's guy on the staff, not 3 stud recruiters. Who had the most talented rosters in recent years? Memphis, Michigan, Kentucky, etc. Yet their on-court success paled in comparison to Villanova, Kansas, UNC, who had a lot less NBA kids then them, but perhaps better in-game coaching and player development that led to better results. We were devoid on talent and coaching, so if we up the talent, perhaps it rises all boats, but my fear is no one we brought in has any track record of improving our major flaws in defensive strategy and scheme. Again I don't want to be negative, as I do think if Brooks' comes it's generally a good move, but I would have liked to have seen the last assistant spot filled by someone who with a little more coaching chops, and less emphasis on the recruiting side. I get this to an extent, on the other hand I feel like unless we hired someone from the Chris Beard tree there would be this complaint about a defensive specialist. In reality, how many teams announce a defensive coordinator where it's known which assistant is responsible for defense? Who really would've been a good hire to explicitly address this defense demand. I appreciate Nickelberry and Brooks are being touted for their recruiting, and then the presumption is they don't have any Xs and Os experience. Yes Nickelberry's stint at Howard was difficult but he worked at LSU for two seasons. Defensive efficiency for last three years: Year before Nickelberry: 185 Year 1: 116 Year 2: 8 LSU primarily changed their defensive scheme to switch screens as much as anyone in the country and it had a huge effect. I cant find an article that attributes the change to any one assistant. If you can find one, I'll stand corrected. Could it have been Nickelberry? Even if it wasn't Nickelberry, do we not think he knew what they were doing and could help implement it here? To me the bigger question is whether Ewing is really willing to listen to outside voices. But to presume Nickelberry and Brooks won't bring ideas just because they weren't explicitly called out as a defensive assistant seems harsh. Ewing has made it clear he doesn't think the problem is scheme. I disagree, less so on offense and way more on defense but this will be a good test to see if the scheme even looks different. All fair points. Again I think overall Brooks’ hire would be a net positive. I’m excited on the recruiting front. I just hope these guys can get in Pat’s ear in terms of our scheme too.
|
|
vv83
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,329
|
Post by vv83 on Apr 22, 2022 12:32:01 GMT -5
Brooks coached at Xavier, one of the big time Pack Line D teams. Maybe he learned something about how to teach that defense effectively?
|
|
|
Post by bornhoya on Apr 22, 2022 14:39:04 GMT -5
I get this to an extent, on the other hand I feel like unless we hired someone from the Chris Beard tree there would be this complaint about a defensive specialist. In reality, how many teams announce a defensive coordinator where it's known which assistant is responsible for defense? Who really would've been a good hire to explicitly address this defense demand. I appreciate Nickelberry and Brooks are being touted for their recruiting, and then the presumption is they don't have any Xs and Os experience. Yes Nickelberry's stint at Howard was difficult but he worked at LSU for two seasons. Defensive efficiency for last three years: Year before Nickelberry: 185 Year 1: 116 Year 2: 8 LSU primarily changed their defensive scheme to switch screens as much as anyone in the country and it had a huge effect. I cant find an article that attributes the change to any one assistant. If you can find one, I'll stand corrected. Could it have been Nickelberry? Even if it wasn't Nickelberry, do we not think he knew what they were doing and could help implement it here? To me the bigger question is whether Ewing is really willing to listen to outside voices. But to presume Nickelberry and Brooks won't bring ideas just because they weren't explicitly called out as a defensive assistant seems harsh. Ewing has made it clear he doesn't think the problem is scheme. I disagree, less so on offense and way more on defense but this will be a good test to see if the scheme even looks different. All fair points. Again I think overall Brooks’ hire would be a net positive. I’m excited on the recruiting front. I just hope these guys can get in Pat’s ear in terms of our scheme too. That’s the key is Ewing going to listen to somebody else’s idea
|
|
tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,326
|
Post by tashoya on Apr 22, 2022 15:33:25 GMT -5
I get this to an extent, on the other hand I feel like unless we hired someone from the Chris Beard tree there would be this complaint about a defensive specialist. In reality, how many teams announce a defensive coordinator where it's known which assistant is responsible for defense? Who really would've been a good hire to explicitly address this defense demand. I appreciate Nickelberry and Brooks are being touted for their recruiting, and then the presumption is they don't have any Xs and Os experience. Yes Nickelberry's stint at Howard was difficult but he worked at LSU for two seasons. Defensive efficiency for last three years: Year before Nickelberry: 185 Year 1: 116 Year 2: 8 LSU primarily changed their defensive scheme to switch screens as much as anyone in the country and it had a huge effect. I cant find an article that attributes the change to any one assistant. If you can find one, I'll stand corrected. Could it have been Nickelberry? Even if it wasn't Nickelberry, do we not think he knew what they were doing and could help implement it here? To me the bigger question is whether Ewing is really willing to listen to outside voices. But to presume Nickelberry and Brooks won't bring ideas just because they weren't explicitly called out as a defensive assistant seems harsh. Ewing has made it clear he doesn't think the problem is scheme. I disagree, less so on offense and way more on defense but this will be a good test to see if the scheme even looks different. All fair points. Again I think overall Brooks’ hire would be a net positive. I’m excited on the recruiting front. I just hope these guys can get in Pat’s ear in terms of our scheme too. The biggest problem with the schemes on both ends is the personnel. In that regard, hopefully the new assistants are able to help.
|
|
rhw485
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 742
|
Post by rhw485 on Apr 22, 2022 16:10:17 GMT -5
All fair points. Again I think overall Brooks’ hire would be a net positive. I’m excited on the recruiting front. I just hope these guys can get in Pat’s ear in terms of our scheme too. The biggest problem with the schemes on both ends is the personnel. In that regard, hopefully the new assistants are able to help. I respectfully disagree with that assessment of the defense. Certainly better athletes and more length will help, but I think we're fundamentally making it more difficult than it needs to be on that end. I do find it interesting that our best stretch of defensive success was when Bile and Pickett shared the floor at the 3/4. Clearly Ewing needs length because he asks his guys to overhelp and recover. That being said we've too consistently been 3 guard lineups and I'm not sure that's actually changing yet depending on how the roster shakes out.
|
|